"Salat" poll

Alen

Salam,
I say 2 times a day at dawn and dusk.
I have perform my salat during that times I guess 2 years by now and I feel it's right. Why else would God repeat himself so many times about those timings. ex. Obey your Lord morning and evening are found on many places in Quran.
Peace sis Majidah

Salam.

True, on many pages i too have found that we are to mention The God and even though i pray at those times, i also pray at other times, i find myself praying more and more, because sometimes people just don't realize how hard Judgment Day will be.

I will tell you this if i don't pray during the day and night, i feel like The God will strike me with the lightning, i become more afraid of The God, if i decided not to pray during the day and the night.

Any thoughts on that ....

Peace.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

Salaat is the process by which we PROGRAM our subconcious(spirit/nafs) by removing/purifying wrong conditionings and allow the God attributes that we were created upon to come forth. That is why we are told that those who purify the nafs(subconcious) succeed and those that dont fail and thatis why those in the fire, when asked how they got there, the first response is "we were not of those who programmed the nafs(musaleen)."

Programming involves us getting into a highly receptive state, which is called the TRANCE state. It is nothing wired, in fact, we enter this state many times during the day, in fact, everything that you have learned(remembered) is because you were in a trance state. So we must realize that we are always being programmed, so its time to take control of this programming ourselves. As the God says "woe to those who are programmed but are heedless of this programming". Meditation is the best means of programming the subconcious, and it involves getting to that state BETWEEN awake and sleep, which is symbolized by the day merging with the night, DAWN and DUSK.

I have been procrastinating for a long time in really putting this together. I just started a new job today and hopefully I wil have time on Mondays now where I can sit down and put this all together in an article with more evidence and examples by which everyone ca verify for themselves, cause that is the only way to know anything.

ILisa

Peace idolfree,

I'm anxiously awaiting...........

unknownuser

Peace all,

My current understanding of the timed salat according to the Qur'aan.

I believe that the Qur'aan is fully detailed relevant to our guidance and it contains all details regarding the timed salat of the muslimeen, which really matter. We should be careful and perform our salat according to the details and within the limits mentioned in the Qur'aan, even though those details and limits might be different from how our fathers have been performing salat

2170 And if they are told "Follow what God has sent down," they say "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided?

I believe that the Messenger never contradicted the Qur'aan in how he performed salat. Hence any contradiction in the way people currently perform salat, with what is mentioned in the Qur'aan cannot be the correct way.

Salat is much more than just "praying" to God. In the Qur'aan the word used for prayer/call is "dua" and not "salat". Salat includes reading and understanding the Qur'aan, remembering The God, and glorifying/praising The God. Of course after salat and at any time of day or night, one can perform "dua". In addition to that, when we are reading with understanding certain passages from the Qur'aan which are "dua" to The God, we are also performing "dua" during salat.

A better translation for "salat" in my opinion would be "connection" or "learning connection" or "commitment to read/study the words of The God and remember and glorify Him".

Upholding reguar salat results in PROGRAMMING of one's soul/mind which enables one to better/purify oneself (zakat) and follow the divine commandments closely at each and every moment of one's life and submit to/obey The God's will by following the straight path as outlined by Him.

Please see the following articles and discussion about what "salat" is

http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_mirghani.htm

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0

http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_wakas.htm

Salat is both mental and bodily. Following are the important details of salat according to the Qur'aan, in my understanding

Salat and zakat are obligatory for all muslims (muslimeen), and not just the believers (mumineen), contrary to what a lot of people on free-minds think that salat is only for believers. Please see the following discussion for my evidences from al-qur'aan

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0

The obligatory salat is two times per day according to the Qur'aan. Please see the following for evidences from the Qur'aan

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.msg92976#msg92976

http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "salat al-wusta&quot

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691

One can perform additional salat (naafilah) if one likes for extra credit, which is optional

1779 And from the night awake for it additionally (naafilatan) for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.

Mental direction towards "masjid alharam"/institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden (2144). The focal point is not just during salat, but wherever one is (2149, 2150) and the evidence confirms it is non-physical (2115, 2142, 2177) (sectarians face their idol in makkah). Thus the physical direction could be in any direction.

Please see the following for more details

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854

The call to salat is for group salat only (558, 629). The call and salat should use Qur'aanic words only. Sectarians testify the messengership in the call and during salat, whereas in the Qur'aan nowhere are we required to testify/witness the messengership. We are required to BELIEVE in messengership, not testify/witness it.

1343 And those who reject Say "You are not a messenger." Say "God is sufficient as a witness between me and you, the One who has the knowledge of the Scripture."

Please note that even the messenger himself did not testify/witness his own messengership, but said that God is sufficient as a witness !!!

4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is sufficient as a witness.

Testifying/witnessing messengership without actually witnessing it ourselves is giving false testimony and being a false witness, and actually would make one a hypocrite/liar

631 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.

Those with knowledge, however, can testify/witness the oneness of The God

318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the Angels, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.

Please see the following article about "shahada"

http//free-minds.org/articles/hadith/testimony.htm

Location of salat could be sanctuaries or homes (2458, 339, 2436)
Physical cleanliness and clarity of mind as prescribed in the Qur'aan before salat (56, 443). Sectarians have a different version of washing; they add putting water in their mouth and nose and perform each washing 3 times. The sectarians actually break their fast while fasting each time they put water in their mouth for washing before salat in contradiction to the Qur'aanic way, as water is readily absorbed from the oral mucosal surfaces.
Standing to uphold salat (4102, 339, 2238, 4142). "Aqeemu al-salat" can also mean persist in salat. Thus standing in salat is both physical and mental and we should persist in salat as well as stand in salat.
Oration or recitation of ayat from the Qur'aan (4103 - "kitaban mawqootan"/timed BOOK, 1778 - "qur'aana al-fajri"/dawn reading, 17106-110) with understanding (443) in a moderate tone (17110, 111). The oration should include Qur'aanic words and ayat only and one should remember and glorify Allah only (2014, 17110, 111). Sectarians recite verses from the Qur'aan silently in certain salats, and in other salats they have silent recitation in parts of salat and they recite certain words that are not part of the Qur'aan, like aameen, and they praise and remember certain messengers in addition to Allah.

The only obligatory part of the Qur'aan that one is required to say is one that sectarians don't normally say in their salat (See 17111).

Kneeling position during salat (555) with humility. Thus ruku' during salat is both mental and bodily. There is no evidence of the sectarian bowing position according to al Qur'aan. For more info on "kneeling" versus "bowing" please see the following link

http//free-minds.org/articles/hadith/refute2.htm

Physical ruku' is not bowing. According to the Qur'aan one is to go down and sit on the knees. See 3824

"? he fell "raki'an"?" (3824)

One cannot fall into bowing, however, one can fall to one's knees. Therefore the bowing position has no support in the Qur'aan.

Of course, "ruku'" also means humility, so we should be humble in our salat, which is also "ruku'".

Salat is ended with physical sujud in which one falls to/with the chin and not to the forehead (17108, 109), accompanied by mental submission/obedience. Thus sujud during salat is both mental and bodily. Sujud of sectarians, on the other hand, is on the forehead. Please see the following for a discussion about physical sujud

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12918.msg107735#msg107735

Probably that is why the disbelievers will not know how to "sujud" on the Last Day, and they will be dragged by their lying and errant foreheads

6842 The Day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to prostrate, but they will be unable to.

9615 No but if he does not cease/desist, We will pull and drag by the forehead/forehead's hair.
9616 A lying, sinning/erring forehead/forehead's hair.

Of course "sujud" also means submission/obedience so we should obey and submit to The God at each and every moment of our lives, which would be "sujud" too. Salat should be performed with humility (ruku&#039 and followed with submission/obedience (sujud).

The last utterance should be "alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-3alameen" (see 1010).
There are two units in each salat, and my evidence from the Qur'aan is at the following link

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12981.msg106616#msg106616

In case of fear or war, the salat can be shortened to one unit, and can also be performed while walking or riding (4101, 2239).

My understanding about "yaum al-jum3a" is at the following link

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12991.msg106788#msg106788

An alternate understanding is that muslims can be called to salat at any time they are assembled anywhere.

Only by performing our salat according to the Qur'aan will we be able to preserve and uphold ALSALAT ALWUSTA (the balanced/best salat - 223 thereby bringing forth the purification/betterment (zakat).

May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path and improve our understanding of His system so we can follow it and submit to His will in the best manner.

ILisa

Peace Tanveer,

Thank you for clarifying your understanding of salaat. It's nice to read and to contemplate how you see it. However, I'm not sure I'm with you on all the points....

anyway....

Be well and always walk in the light.... sun

(idolfree.....I'm still waiting.....any progress?)

unknownuser

Peace Lisa,

Thank you for the warm wishes !

Thank you for clarifying your understanding of salaat. It's nice to read and to contemplate how you see it. However, I'm not sure I'm with you on all the points....

It would be nice if you can share your understanding too; no debates but just how you differ, so we can have a mutually beneficial learning connection !

I still haven't made up my mind on some points and would welcome your input, as well as others

Regards and best wishes peace

jonny_k

Peace all,
Cld i get more votes and feedback on this poll? Also in cse you opt for salat having nothing to do with any prayer and rather means following the laws of GOD then what do you make of the washing before standing up for salat as mentioned in the Quran? Thanks. sun GOD Bless!

Jack

Peace all,

My view on salat is very similar to Wakas'. See http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm

http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm

It involves reading and studying al quran and speaking to the God.

5106-07 also shows that non-muslims can uphold salat.

Standing up for salat is not literal to me. Just two verses later the same word for stand is used, and it has nothing to do with standing up literally. You referenced 56, continue reading till about 514; It's the same subject. Notice how in 513 salat is tied to breaking the covenant, just like 911 and very similar to 5106-07.

Notice what Muhammad was advised and ordered to do in 731-8; Having to do with quranic study.

The washing is for mental focus rather than physical cleanliness.

ayani

when i make salat, i bow, prostrate, recite ayat, and make du'a.

i try to pray five times a day, but i don't keep it strict. in face i'm drifting from that pattern a bit. sometimes two a day, sometimes three.

unknownuser

Salaams Br's,

"Other"

i don't perform any ritualistic preyer's any more- it is tradition of those who bowed to idol's. Remember the meccans where idol worshippers before the quran came.

The quran tell us to have deeds based on good action - i think.

so what is salaat then?

(Sorry there could be some errors in translation)

(23) Those who believe with the unseen and they maintain counsel and from what We provided for them they spend.

(243) And maintain the counsel and keep it pure (the advice ) and accept with those who accept.

(245) And seek help with patience and counsel and truly it is very hard except on the humble minded.

(283)And when we took a covenant (from) the children (of) Israel not you shall serve but Allah and to parents (be) good and (to) kindred and (to) orphans and the poor and speak to people good (kindly) and undertake counsel and keep it pure (the advice thereof) then you turned back except a few of you while you are averse.

(2110)And undertake counsel and keep it pure( the advice thereof)and what ever you send forth for yourselves of good you shall find it with Allah certainly Allah of what you do All-Seer.

(2153) You, those who believed, seek help with the patience and counsel, truly the God (is) with the patient.

(2157) They are those, on whom counsel from their Lord and a mercy , and those are the guided.

(2177)(it is) not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the east (or) the west but righteousness (is) he who believes in Allah and the Last Day and the Malaikaat and the Book and the prophets and gives wealth in spite of love for it to the Kinsfolk and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and who ask and in the ransom of slaves and undertakes counsel and keeps it pure (the advice thereof) and who fulfil their promise when they promise and who remain patient in adversity and affliction and at the time of peril such are they who have proved true and those (are) they (who are) pious.

(223Be regular to counsel (giving and taking advice) in a median (way) and observe for Allah devoutly.

(2277) That those who believed and did the righteous deeds, and maintained counsel, and keep pure the advice (thereof) , for them at their Lord (is) their reward, and no fear on them and nor they be sad.

I could be wrong though- but i believe in my understandings.

Thanks.

God be with you All.

jonny_k

Peace House M.D and all,
Yes but i still dont get if salat is say focussing/carrying out GOD's commands in the proper way then wed have to wash ourselves every minute or second. The key point is here that GOD commands us to wash before salat in specific. What does that connection imply? GOD Bless!

Wakas

peace jonny k,

Did you read the links referenced by House MD?

Asfandyar

I personally believe, though I may be wrong that the Qur'an states that we should

• Observe contact prayer at least 3 times a day (at sunrise, midday and sunset)

• Perform ablution before contact prayer (unless you have not extcreted, dirtied yourself or had intercourse) since the last time you performed ablution.

• Pray at least 2 units

• Dedicate your prayer to God Alone

• Only recite passages from the Qur'an (except when you are (optionally yet preferably) making a non-contact prayer to God before or after) - This would exlcude the famous "Aaameeen" cried during sectarian salat

Only Allah knows best.

Peace

Amin74

I have to agree with Roshan. Al Quran does not put so much importance on ritual salaat as most Muslims do. If it is not mentioned in detail then their is an obvious reason. Its not that important. Besides salaat is simply a form of zhikir in a more physical sense. It is simply one way a person can remember Allah, and can be done any time any where. True Islam is not a faith of senseless ritual.

Having said that, I still enjoy doing salaat. But I tend to do it when I really feel I need it. Sometimes that is often sometimes not. Nut more important to me is to always try to have a sincere sense of nearness to my creator at all times.

Peace

Samia

Wama kana salatuhumAAinda albayti illa mukaan watasdiyatan fathooqooalAAathaba bima kuntum takfuroona

Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."

God Bless.

The words "mukaa'" and "tasdiya" are verbal nouns of two verbs MKA becomes rough (hands) alluding to lack of generosity; and "SaD-Da" meaning turn away, and is used in this meaning in the qur'aan in all its derivatives in about 20 verses (and is still used to date in this meaning). None of them had the meaning of "clapping".

Weren't they supposed to be "praying" to their gods? So why can't they "whistle" and "clap" rotfl

sirohey

There are three "Salats" mentioned by name in the Quran .. NO MORE.

one in Baqara called "Salat-al-Wusta"
the other 2 in Noor "Salat-al-Fajr" and "Salat-al-Isha"

If anyone can find another named "Salat" in the Quran please tell me about it.... the word is "Salat" .... not "Hamd" "Tasbeeh" or "Zikr".

Suran Taha .... God said to Moses "Surely I, I am God, No god but I, but serve Me and firm in Salat to My remembrance"

Salat is remembering God in anyway you wish, Prostration and Bowing is also explained to us in the Quran ... you can remember God, while standing or bowing or prostrating .... all three are good, choose how you want to do it. Whoever wishes can pray all day .... all night ... God has told us to do it three specific times, but that does not mean we have to do it only three times a day but we CERTAINLY cannot mandate 5 prayers or more or les, when there is NO justification in the Quran for it.

Samia

There are three "Salats" mentioned by name in the Quran .. NO MORE.

one in Baqara called "Salat-al-Wusta"
the other 2 in Noor "Salat-al-Fajr" and "Salat-al-Isha"

If anyone can find another named "Salat" in the Quran please tell me about it.... the word is "Salat" .... not "Hamd" "Tasbeeh" or "Zikr".

Wusta means "balanced/moderate/average"., and is used in this meaning. The meaning of "middle" is also used in the qur'aan, but I do not see it applicable here.What's the middle of the day/night when God describes them as a ball (395)?

Wakas

Re 3 daily "salat"

This topic has been discussed in significant detail in this forum, at least 10 pages worth of detail/discussion. I am of the opinion that the 3 argument has been thoroughly refuted. Also, I am not aware of any long term forum member who believes in the 3 view, and longer term members are more likely to have read the discussions that took place. There were plenty of arguments for and against discussed.

flamindecent

Dear all... peace

I choose "other" for a couple reasons. My conclusion comes from my research on the topic so far.

First, as we know, Salat has been around for a while. Next, human beliefs matter, that is, in the event that they are "true".

Truth need not necessarily correspond to empirical data. In other words, truth for different people can mean different things. However, many of us believe that God is "The Truth", so that's chill.

Sunni's believe, in some hadith or the other, that salaat ought to be performed at various points in time, spread over 24 hours.

For the sake of argument, 'x' could squeeze in more than 3, more than 5, more than technically an arbitrary figure here. As you can see... "communing" with God can take place at any time, in my opinion. Now of course there are certain parameters... we have 24 hours to work with a day, one ought to have the right frame of mind, know what you're saying etc., because recall, it is an honourable practice before God. That's one cent.

My final point however is this the Psalms in the Bible records some of David's songs to the cherisher. He, unexplained says, 'Selah' at certain points during the Psalms. There is an inordinate amount of literature about what 'Selah' "might" mean. Plainly, I think that he was talking about "Salat" in his language (certainly not English, from what I know), but I guess it was similar to Arabic. So it ought to have the same root (which I have not yet researched).

If this is correct, it follows, that Salat can be performed at any time. David, I think, in these Psalms calls on God to help, and from the reading of the Psalms, you can tell that he's in deep deep trouble. Enemy's trying to kill him, evil folks trying their best to nab him and all sorts of (I imagine) horrible things happening to him. That, I think his cries to God resulting in 'Selah'. Perhaps, Salat. Please see my rendition of a Psalm here

http//thepsalms-a-muslim-edition.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-i_08.html

In the English translations, he goes on further to say, "commune with your hearts" when you lie in bed and so on. That feels like his Salat, to me, respectfully.

Peace peace