thank you
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salam brothers and sisters
glad to have found this site and to read the many issues being discussed in an open and pragmatic manner. when i professed the shahada
alhamdulillah 2 years ago, i must admit i did not realize the full ramifications of assosiating my understanding of islam with sunni ideologies. i admit i was gullible to believe that they adhered to the correct understanding of islam while believing it was the shia and other factions who had misinterpeted the deen whether through naivety or to suit their various agendas. i began to realise shortly though that even some my new peers adhered to questionable practices/beliefs that i hadn?t figured in islam.i came to islam through the quran alone after i decided to read what must be the most widely read book in the world only to satisfy my curiousities of it. having always despised religion and vocally opposed it as fabricated nonsense, a means for those in power to control the masses, i would have never imagined that i would ever find myself humbly accepting what is often thought of in europe at least as the ugliest religion of them all. but that is the power of the quran...it spoke so directly to my conscience in such a provoking manner that it eventually became impossible to imagaine that it was designed by anyone but god. it scares you to doubt it.
i cant completely neglect the importance of hadith as it is hadith that taught me story of mohammed and the cultural climate in which the quran was revealed. it was hadith that taught me how terrified he ran down from his cave to the shelter of his wife upon his first contact with gabreel scared for his life and questioning his own mental health..hardly the behavior of a man whose critics accuse him of devising a work only as means to assert a hegemony over the surrounding tribes and to better his own standing among them. he knew forthrightly of the soon to be looming death threats, the accusations of dementia that would sleight his noble status. he is reluctant at first but compelled by further revelations dutifully accepts the mission.
what i do reject for one and it seems to be a common consensus here are hadeeth on which nefarious legal rulings are contrived and which impact detrementally on the society of followers and allay the impression to non-muslims that islam is a worthless religion to pursue and understand. two immediately spring to my mind...the stoning of aldulterers and the murdering of apostates...it is true that the quran observes a severe punishment for adulterers of 100 lashes but there is absolutely no question of a barbaric death sentence. the quran screams clarity on this matter, but somehow certain ?scholars? have been able to convince otherwise...also while the quran forsees a grave punishment for apostates in the next life, a death sentence is only to be metted out to those who turn, apon rejecting belief, to attacking the community.
when i was invited to my first meal with muslims i was told that there were four schools of islamic jurispudence, hanifi, maliki, etc,etc and in order to practice islam correctly i had to follow one, it didnt matter which one but i had to choose. how could i choose one when each of the schools advises these rulings?
recently i was disgusted by these pictures. they show a female circumcission ritual in indonesia. i had always been told that female circumcssion occured only in some remote african tribes whose members had adopted islam but retained their backward customs. but here in indonesia, the country with the largest population of muslims in the world, hadeeth are quoted to validate the practice.
i have always wondered about the the correct way to offer salat and appreciated the comments here in the forum. reciting the sunni shahada didnt bother me at first until i started to wonder whether mohammed himself offered this version in his salat. why would he need to proclaim that he bore withness to being the messanger of god. similarily, the ending dua advised by sunnis asking god to send blessings and peace on mohammed and his family and true followers just as he did with abraham sounds like it was added by some zelous follower after his death. i agree with the comments on this discussion that dua is best left seperate to salat where we worship god alone.
i have always had trouble with the hadeeth about the night journey and the assent into heaven. it was only after i had accepted islam that i was made aware of these fantastical narrations. i was shocked and suddenly doubted my new faith as a result. islam i had percieved was a rational grounded religion and now i was being told i had to not only believe but celebrate this story. previously i had admired islam because it didnt have feast days or birthdays but now i wasnt sure. thankfully i found sites like this that refute these allegations and my faith was restored. its unfortunate that many muslims will spurn you for even entertaining a discussion about such things but i am glad it is not the case here..
it seems to me that over the last 1400 years, islam has not been any less suceptible to the modifications than muslims are so quick to accuse its spiritual predecessors of amassing....and i wish to thank the developers of this web-site for designing a means to pursue an open discourse on the many tenets of our much-troubled deen.
ps. if anyone is here, living in ireland and would like to meet-up..pm me. for the past while, i havent assosiated with any muslims here and have avoided attending the saudi-influenced mosque. ..also if anyone knows in dublin where the imam satardien delivers his khutbah, i would like to know. he was kicked out of the main mosque for challenging the typical crap they spew. cant ever find an address. also i was wondering if it is fairly typical for the police to have a presence inside a mosque on jumah or is it just dublin. i think we are increasingly getting alot of dubious people here who are trying to avoid detection in england..i want to avoid them too.
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peace, brother! it is good to meet you. peace
i have always wondered about the the correct way to offer salat and appreciated the comments here in the forum. reciting the sunni shahada didnt bother me at first until i started to wonder whether mohammed himself offered this version in his salat. why would he need to proclaim that he bore witness to being the messenger of god. similarly, the ending dua advised by sunnis asking god to send blessings and peace on mohammed and his family and true followers just as he did with abraham sounds like it was added by some zealous follower after his death. i agree with the comments on this discussion that dua is best left separate to salat where we worship god alone.
exactly. this always bothered me, too. in fact when i declared my shahada privately, i couldn't bring myself to add "mohammad rasullah". it felt deeply wrong. so i said "la ilaha ila Allah, wa ilahi al-masir" instead, and felt much better. then realized "oh, dang. i'm going to have a hell of a time with the other Muslims..."
may God bless you and guide you, brother. i agree too that FGM is terrible, painful, wrong, and wholly un-Quranic. the Quran doesn't even require male circumcision...
i'm not in the UK, but my family's ancestrally from County Cork. handshake welcome, salam.
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salam ayani....good to meet you too. i was wondering what 'wa ilahi al-masir' means. and you are right i also feel better to omit these parts that seek to honour or pledge allegience mohammed. also the abu huraira hadeeth about the whole slipper thing is simply ridiculous. interesting that your roots are corkonian...if you ever come over i'ld be happy to show you round though alot of cork would be new to me too so we would both be lost which is always a thrill.
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Salam DC2,
Your post is very uplifting to me, Thanks for taking the time to write it and welcome
I too was a "skeptic". Truly even those who despise religion can submit to the truth if God Wills. Yet I know many people who do not believe there is no way to Guide, no matter how much you try and reason with them. -
peace dc2,
Thanks for sharing your story and welcome.
The power of al quran is pretty amazing, and being drawn to it/islam after reading it is very common amongst reverts. Also being unsettled when introduced to traditional hadiths is also common.
it seems to me that over the last 1400 years, islam has not been any less suceptible to the modifications than muslims are so quick to accuse its spiritual predecessors of amassing
Exactly. In the early days of my journey I often used to ask myself how did I know I had the right version of Islam, and how illogical it was for me to think that Islam/Muslims were somehow immune to the distortions that happened to previous faiths. I simply couldn't fathom how that was possible, yet no Muslim I knew had asked themselves this.
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salam guys, and thanks for the warm welcomes. aalmakto, you raise an important point, none of us would be here save for god as god guides who he pleases. there is no use in trying to guide someone if god has not already decided to guide them also..its another reason i initially liked islam. we are not enjoined to compell anyone to come to islam. anyone who comes it is for their own good. if mohammed as his critics propose invented a religion merely as a means for personal gain then he must have been a master of reverse psychology as i think he would have laid out some easier tenets as in regards to prayer/fasting etc. also the religion would be laden with cult like obligations aka mormonism/catholicism.
rahila, sorry you had to leave somewhere you were attached to. happened to me too...and wakas you are spot on..mainstream musims need some a dose of some serious introspection and quit falling into the "it was what we found our fore-fathers were doing" trap. that or hire some really good PR.
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I do not know if I posted an introduction, but in case I have not here goes. I said my shahada a few years ago. Right after saying it (being drawn by the beauty of the Quran) I was taken aside. The men of the mosque explained to me tons of rules-no silk, gold etc. They kept adding more and more that I instantly regretted joining Islam. Yet I keep coming back to the Quran. So here I am. I guess I can say I have never trusted the hadith, and more and more I am understanding why. I feel lost as I am not sure how to pray now. If anyone has a step by step guide to prayer please email it to me. I read some on here, but the commentary distracts me and is not very user friendly when trying to learn/relearn prayers. Also are there any Quran Only Mosques/study groups?
Peace,
Icarus -
I do not know if I posted an introduction, but in case I have not here goes. I said my shahada a few years ago. Right after saying it (being drawn by the beauty of the Quran) I was taken aside. The men of the mosque explained to me tons of rules-no silk, gold etc. They kept adding more and more that I instantly regretted joining Islam. Yet I keep coming back to the Quran. So here I am. I guess I can say I have never trusted the hadith, and more and more I am understanding why. I feel lost as I am not sure how to pray now. If anyone has a step by step guide to prayer please email it to me. I read some on here, but the commentary distracts me and is not very user friendly when trying to learn/relearn prayers. Also are there any Quran Only Mosques/study groups?
Peace,
IcarusI don't think there is a step by step guide in the Quran. Im not sure about mosques though. I know there is a 19er mosque. Im sorry that you feel lost about prayer. God Willing just be sincere in prayer and that is the most important thing. Because if there was a way God wanted us to pray I am certain it would have been in the Quran as the Quran is 100% complete.
Peace and welcome
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welcome dc2 Thanks for sharing your story!
I do not know if I posted an introduction, but in case I have not here goes. I said my shahada a few years ago. Right after saying it (being drawn by the beauty of the Quran) I was taken aside. The men of the mosque explained to me tons of rules-no silk, gold etc. They kept adding more and more that I instantly regretted joining Islam. Yet I keep coming back to the Quran. So here I am. I guess I can say I have never trusted the hadith, and more and more I am understanding why. I feel lost as I am not sure how to pray now. If anyone has a step by step guide to prayer please email it to me. I read some on here, but the commentary distracts me and is not very user friendly when trying to learn/relearn prayers. Also are there any Quran Only Mosques/study groups?
Peace,
IcarusPeace Icarus,
That's because salat doesn't mean 'prayer'.
Please see
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_wakas.htm
Also, the purpose of salat is much more important than it's method (please see chapter 29 verse 45)
If you still feel it means prayer, there are couple of articles on the main site on it.
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_edip.htm
Feel free to PM me, if you have any questions.
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salam ayani....good to meet you too. i was wondering what 'wa ilahi al-masir' means. and you are right i also feel better to omit these parts that seek to honour or pledge allegience mohammed. also the abu huraira hadeeth about the whole slipper thing is simply ridiculous. interesting that your roots are corkonian...if you ever come over i'ld be happy to show you round though alot of cork would be new to me too so we would both be lost which is always a thrill.
brother / sister ~
the last part of the shahada means "and to God we are returned". very true, and it's a phrase that comes up often in the Quran. i would rather follow the Quran than the desires or traditions of men...
yay for getting lost together! i would love to see Ireland someday... insha'allah. yay shall we plan for summer of 2012? can we find some small donkeys and ride them around the hills? that would rock.
i agree, it's not always easy following Quran alone with regards to the larger ummah, but so far as our closeness to God and day to day, it's wonderful. and so worth it. have you seen / read the Mohammed Asad translation / commentary? really beutiful and well-explained.
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Although I'm bound to get strung up high for this; I tend to be of the Hanafi school of thought; as long as you're sincerely trying your best and you believe that you're doing what is expect of you, you honestly can't be held accountable for those ideas you have taken with good faith that might have been perversions.
As long as those innovations don't threaten the core value of Islam, the oneness of God, then it is nothing to worry about.
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If anyone has a step by step guide to prayer please email it to me. I read some on here, but the commentary distracts me and is not very user friendly when trying to learn/relearn prayers.
salam icarus, i think in this forum, there are many different interpetations of how to preform salat and what it means etc. i have wondered myself how a submitter or quran-aloner preforms it. i havent found an exact step by step guide. i guess i would have to go to a submitter mosque to see how they exactly do it and i think there is only one in tuscon az. for me i think the intention to submit snd worship is greater than the actions preformed. i make salat the way i first read how to preform it, the sunni way, though i generally leave out the very last dua asking allah to bless the prophet just like abraham and his family. right now i am praying 3 times a day, dawn, evening and night but i may switch back to five if i can find the evidence to support it.
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shall we plan for summer of 2012? can we find some small donkeys and ride them around the hills?
have you seen / read the Mohammed Asad translation / commentary? really beutiful and well-explained.2012?? is that when you're getting released? havent seen an irish donkey in 20 years. they've been replaced by yuppies stuck in traffic. i did read parts of the asad translation once i think. i must check it out again though after you reccomending it. i do want to check out the new reformist one too.
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2012?? is that when you're getting released? havent seen an irish donkey in 20 years. they've been replaced by yuppies stuck in traffic. i did read parts of the asad translation once i think. i must check it out again though after you reccomending it. i do want to check out the new reformist one too.
D my uncle went to Ireland a summer back, said there were some lovely fuzzy donkeys and sheep. yuppies are a weak, weak substitute.
the Asad translation is good, but his commentary is what's really wonderful. incredibly well-read, thoughtful, insightful. extensive, too.
http//www.alibris.com/booksearch?author=asad&title=message+quran
i would like to read the reformist translation, too, insha'allah. i actually found the RK translation at my local public library, which really surprised me. we're in the middle of no where, among the corn and the Mennonites.
aysha ~ salam! good to meet you, too. i remember being bowled over when i found this forum, and very very grateful, too.
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i make salat the way i first read how to preform it, the sunni way, though i generally leave out the very last dua asking allah to bless the prophet just like abraham and his family. right now i am praying 3 times a day, dawn, evening and night but i may switch back to five if i can find the evidence to support it.
Welcome bro,
People think salat is something mysterious and only they can unravel it's correct way to us dumbos. They forget that God tells to do salat as he as already taught us, just like speach, walking and other things we do - BUT with some conditions, primarly wudu, timings and devoted to God alone.
God places conditions on our diet, but nobody says hey, how do I eat, how many units do I eat, it's not in the quran - but when you mention salat .... they start sweating.
In the desire to the learn something new lets not forget the old.
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Welcome bro,
People think salat is something mysterious and only they can unravel it's correct way to us dumbos. They forget that God tells to do salat as he as already taught us, just like speach, walking and other things we do - BUT with some conditions, primarly wudu, timings and devoted to God alone.
God places conditions on our diet, but nobody says hey, how do I eat, how many units do I eat, it's not in the quran - but when you mention salat .... they start sweating.
In the desire to the learn something new lets not forget the old.
not sure if i get you, are you saying you think salat should be left to personal interpetation with some conditions?
what do you mean when you say 'They forget that God tells to do salat as he as already taught us like speach, walking and other things we do' ?...that it is natural or coded into our design?
'In the desire to the learn something new lets not forget the old'.....do you mean we should make salat as traditional muslims do?
peace.
