Was the Qur'an the Only Revelation That The Prophet Received From Allah

jonny_k

Peace "albruni",

Salam Brothers,

Well , Quran says we should refer to the Prophet always.

Verily in the messenger of God you have goodly example (uswah hasanah) - for anyone who looks unto God and the last day, and remembers God much (3321)

Don?t try to limit the reference, since the verse is put in the middle of comments about the battle of al-Ahzab.
However for the statement that the Prophet provided a good example in the battle begs the question, what was the conduct of the Prophet during the battle? And this question cannot be answered without looking at the Hadith, since the Qur'an does not say anything about it. The first audience of the Qur'an must have known how the Prophet behaved in the battle and they would have immediately understood what the Qur'an was talking about. But the later readers of the Qur'an such as ourselves need to turn to the traditions about the Prophet to determine relevant details of the Prophet's conduct and follow his example in fulfillment of the Qur'anic verse

You (O Prophet) are indeed endowed with a great character (684).
In view of this statement, it seems inconceivable that the Prophet provided the believers with only one example to be followed.

JK- Dont try to limit this verse to the messenger Muhammad since 1) theres a similar verse in regards to Abraham in the Quran which ill quote right now and 2) this verse says MESSENGER, not Muhammad as the man. Otherwise Zeid would have to obey Muhammad also when he said "Keep your wife" in 3337 but obviously that command was from Muhammad WHILST HE WAS NOT IN A STATE OF BEING A MESSENGER. I thought i made tht clear. Now heres the verse
604 There is for you an excellent example(uswattan hassnatan) (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people "we are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides God we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in God and Him alone" But not when Abraham said to his father "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from God." (They prayed) "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

You sunnis/shias almost always ignore this verse. So now does this mean wed need hadith from Abraham besides the Quran as well? Most certainly not as the same verse describes what that example is namely the turning away from idol worship and coming to observe GOD Alone.

Hadith have many inconsistencies, but only the foolish would deny that truthful hadith exist and only the lazy would refuse to seek them out.
It?s very clear that who tries to understand from Gods revelation only and who invents new rules to follow their own desire

JK- Man are you totally delusional or what. Shiites and sunnis reject each others hadith EACH claiming it has the right ones without any consistent evidece whatsoever on both sides. Even amongst sunnis eg btw barelvis and deobandis there is so much disagreement based on hadith. So what is this nonsense your stating here? Quran Alone people are much closer to each other and their undertandings of the Quran ARE CONVERGING. More importantly we do not kill each other over disagreements. Lazy and ignorant would be to try and figh the truth from inconsitent sources whilst GOD has already revealed a perfectly preserved scripture.

4150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

JK- Yes when certain selected men SPEAK AS MESSENGERS, and theyr not 24/7 so as shown by 3337, then it is as if GOD Himself is speaking, logically. So at that time whilst theyr messengers theres no seperation to be made btw GOD and them like some people could say "hes just a human and i want to communicate with GOD myself". This is because communicating through the messengers is one of the modes of comm listed in the Quran. The other two incldue through wahi/inspiration or from behind a hijab/veil. It is further important to note that a messenger of GOD must come along with proof.

461 -- When it is said to them "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle" Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.

JK- Again your trying to imply that the "and" classifies the two into seprate entities WHICH IS NOT THE CASE and their are many examples of double or even more emhasis in the Quran. Example the phrases "al-quran WAz zikri Hakeem", "al-kitaab WAL quraan( as in 151 meaning the book and Quran obviously emphasising the same entity)". A real world example from the sunni world itself would be when the Imam of a mosque states "my dear friends AND brothers" at the start of the congregational speech. Is he referring to part of the people in the group as his friends only whilst others are his brothers? Certainly not. It's a way of speech in which to provide emphasis. But these same people would twist anything in order to justify hadith besides Quran. No sane person would fall for tht. GOD Bless!

Alen

Salam,
Respectfully.

Of course the Quran was the only revelation from Allah SWT to prophet Muhammad even though i will provide you with the title of a short booklet where the sunnis claim that prophet Muhammad received another "part" of the revelation, some sort of revelation from God.
I know, i know, they're trying to implement sunna and hadith books in islam but can't so they get angry and throw a few bombs here and there all over Faluja, Baghdad, .... right?

Peace.

Albruni

Salam Brother,

You are right we are not supposed to have hadith from Abraham but in 604 a specific example is mentioned in case of the Prophet Abraham. But in 3321 the statement about the uswah hasanah of the Prophet Muhammad is left quite general. If in 3321 the reference was meant only to some specific example, then, as in 604-6, we should expect at least some allusion to that specific example. That the reference is left general suggests strongly that it is meant to be general.

It?s not my delusion but your schizophrenia which makes you not to think logical. Brother, everybody does have difference of opinions but it doesn?t mean that, there is no truth in neither one; it?s our job to find the truth not denying the whole.

You did agreed that prophet received revelation other than Quran from god Quran says "4700 - As for the believers who do good works and believe in what is sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He will acquit them of their sins and repair their condition." we have to believe what ever is sent down to "Muhammad" Who is also the messenger. Indeed he is a human being but the chosen one as messenger

531,2,3 - your companion is neither astray, neither errs, nor does he speak out of desire. Indeed it is not except a Revelation which is revealed.
When he talk about worldly things he talk on his own and when he says anything about the religion, it?s from god.

In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs. But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.

The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.

Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act.

Do you mean to say God and Apostle are the same? I am not, I say follow what god has told (Quran) and Follow what prophet has told (hadith).

jonny_k

Peace "albruni",

Salam Brother,

You are right we are not supposed to have hadith from Abraham but in 604 a specific example is mentioned in case of the Prophet Abraham. But in 3321 the statement about the uswah hasanah of the Prophet Muhammad is left quite general. If in 3321 the reference was meant only to some specific example, then, as in 604-6, we should expect at least some allusion to that specific example. That the reference is left general suggests strongly that it is meant to be general.

JK- This is totally ridiculous. There are so many verses throughout the Quran which make it clear how the messenger is an example. If he were to be an example 24/7 then what do you make of 3337? Also Muhammad is not mentioned by name at all so i will go one step further and say 3321 does not only refer to Muhammad but to any messenger, NOT prophet(as is my understanding which i can provide evidence also from quran http//www.submission.org/messenger/prophet.html), who will come till the end of the world.

It?s not my delusion but your schizophrenia which makes you not to think logical. Brother, everybody does have difference of opinions but it doesn?t mean that, there is no truth in neither one; it?s our job to find the truth not denying the whole.

JK- I reject all hadith besides Quran as to have any Divine authenticity.

You did agreed that prophet received revelation other than Quran from god Quran says "4700 - As for the believers who do good works and believe in what is sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He will acquit them of their sins and repair their condition." we have to believe what ever is sent down to "Muhammad" Who is also the messenger. Indeed he is a human being but the chosen one as messenger

JK- As mentioned many times he wasnt a messenger 24/7 neither is he a messenger right now as hes passed away. And once the mssnger dies in person the Quran or the message itself becomes the messenger.

531,2,3 - your companion is neither astray, neither errs, nor does he speak out of desire. Indeed it is not except a Revelation which is revealed.
When he talk about worldly things he talk on his own and when he says anything about the religion, it?s from god.

JK- And all what we have regarding what he said regarding religion or the deenul islam is in Quran and not in those inconsitent hadith literature. GOD Bless!

Albruni

Peace "albruni",

JK- This is totally ridiculous. There are so many verses throughout the Quran which make it clear how the messenger is an example. If he were to be an example 24/7 then what do you make of 3337? Also Muhammad is not mentioned by name at all so i will go one step further and say 3321 does not only refer to Muhammad but to any messenger, NOT prophet(as is my understanding which i can provide evidence also from quran http//www.submission.org/messenger/prophet.html), who will come till the end of the world.

JK- I reject all hadith besides Quran as to have any Divine authenticity.

JK- As mentioned many times he wasnt a messenger 24/7 neither is he a messenger right now as hes passed away. And once the mssnger dies in person the Quran or the message itself becomes the messenger.

JK- And all what we have regarding what he said regarding religion or the deenul islam is in Quran and not in those inconsitent hadith literature. GOD Bless!

Salam,

i have already answered "In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs. But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.

The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.

Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act."

By rejecting all hadiths you also rejects quran which has Divine authenticity because quran says to follow the messanger.

Messangers are send not only to deliver the message but to explain and demonstrate .Messangers will always remain messagner even they die E.g Quran says Moses as messanger though he died.

salam

unknownuser

Greetings Albruni,

I say follow what god has told (Quran) and Follow what prophet has told (hadith).

Name ONE hadith you?re certain is true and why it should be appended to Qur?an?

Please take your time (see 1736 on hearsay) staking your soul on this regardless if its good advice.

Peace

kaiwai

Greetings Albruni,

Name ONE hadith you?re certain is true and why it should be appended to Qur?an?

Please take your time (see 1736 on hearsay) staking your soul on this regardless if its good advice.

Peace

Just a side issue; am I correct in assuming that the Hadith should be consistent with the Quran? If the Quran says it is perfect, and there is a hadith which says the opposite, is it correct in assuming that the hadith is wrong?

Andya_Primanda

So what hadith should we follow today besides the Qur'an, Albruni?

Our current hadith corpus IMO has major flaws, surely it would be irresponsible to expect us to make such a flawed collection divine law...

jonny_k

Peace "albruni",

531,2,3 - your companion is neither astray, neither errs, nor does he speak out of desire. Indeed it is not except a Revelation which is revealed.
When he talk about worldly things he talk on his own and when he says anything about the religion, it?s from god.

In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs.

JK- This is completely wrong with no Quranic support. Infact the Quran forbade the Prophet from that.
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is We who will explain it.

But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.

JK- My question here is. How can we know that a certain act, not mentioned in the Quran, is really from him? There are so many inconsistencies in the haidth books already. So what guarantee is there that a certain hadith, even if termed as sahih, will be correct. The issue is simple. If the sahih hadith were to be followed GOD wouldve included them in the Quran so thered be no doubt.

The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.

JK- Yes but like i said that doesnt answer my question regarding the authenticity of the hadith.

Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act.

JK- And we cannot be sure of any of this except what is mentioned in the Quran. Thats our standoint.

Do you mean to say God and Apostle are the same? I am not, I say follow what god has told (Quran) and Follow what prophet has told (hadith).

JK- Not in person but in the sense that at the time of revelation coming out of the messenger it is as if GOD Himself is speaking to the people and no further arguments to be done, hence the quranic phrase "make no distinction between GOD and His messengers". GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "albruni",

Salam,

i have already answered "In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs. But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.

JK- I already explained this in my other posts quoting from the Quran that the Prophet was not allowed to explain the Quran on his own.

The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.

JK- Here i made it clear that it makes absolutely no sense for GOD to want scholars to start fishing for sahih hadith in between inconsistencies whilst He has already revealed a perfect and preserved Scripture. Like the Quran contains a phrase "and they ask you(Muhammad) concerning menses. SAY....". If GOD wated that the Prophet say teach salat/prayer a similar thing wouldve been mentioned in the Quran "and they ask you concerning salat. SAY....".

Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act."

JK- I answered this already.

By rejecting all hadiths you also rejects quran which has Divine authenticity because quran says to follow the messanger.

JK- Follow GOD and the messenger is referring to the Quran ONLY in our time since there is no other way to follow what the messenger said except by upholding the Quran. The statements what the messenger was supposed to say ARE ALSO IN THE QURAN preceded mostly by a "qul" as ive givevn an example above. We dont have to go looking for external hadith which have so much inconsitencies. MOREVER the Quan itself is a messenger and here's the verse which shows this
GOD has prepared for them severe retribution. Therefore, you shall reverence GOD, O you who possess intelligence and believed. GOD has sent down to you a message -*
a messenger* who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.
*6510-11 The ``Messenger'' here is clearly the Quran. Verse 10 talks about "sending down a message,'' and this points to the Quran as the messenger in 6511
This is also logical because the physical messegers die one day but the Message is left over.

Messangers are send not only to deliver the message but to explain and demonstrate .Messangers will always remain messagner even they die E.g Quran says Moses as messanger though he died.

salam

JK- No they are not sent to explain anything on their own as ive shown here clearly. The reasons are obviously because a messenger on his own is like the people of his time and does not know what discoveries would be amde in the future and how people would adopt. It is not the duty of the messenger to change peoples culture. Only the universal laws which GOD reveals though Him as a reminder from Him is what counts. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace again "albruni",
I suggest you also listen to the following lcture http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFmJAyyOUaA (13 Parts)
All Quranic verses are exaplined as to why hadith besides it do not represent the messenger and are not to be followed. GOD Bless!

Albruni

Greetings Albruni,

Name ONE hadith you?re certain is true and why it should be appended to Qur?an?

Please take your time (see 1736 on hearsay) staking your soul on this regardless if its good advice.

Peace

Many Greetings Brother,

1760 - When We said to you Indeed, your Lord encompasses all people. We did not make the vision which We showed to you, and the tree cursed in the Koran except to be a trial for people, and We frighten them, but it only increases them in great insolence.

What was the vision showed ? Can you explain ?
I can explain with the help of Hadis.

5328 - That is all they have of knowledge. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His Path, and those who are guided

Albruni

Just a side issue; am I correct in assuming that the Hadith should be consistent with the Quran? If the Quran says it is perfect, and there is a hadith which says the opposite, is it correct in assuming that the hadith is wrong?

Salam brother,

You are correct,but those kinde of hadith are few and its obvious that we are not suppose to follow it.

Regards,
A.Albruni

Albruni

So what hadith should we follow today besides the Qur'an, Albruni?

Our current hadith corpus IMO has major flaws, surely it would be irresponsible to expect us to make such a flawed collection divine law...

Salam Brother,

Ok leave the flaws , will you follow the minor hadiths which are right at least.you might say no because you want to follow the numbers to understand the quran.

Wasalam,
A.Albruni

Albruni

Salam Brother,

JK- This is completely wrong with no Quranic support. Infact the Quran forbade the Prophet from that.
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is We who will explain it.

Please ready my quote onceagain , Moreover in the last sentence, All?h Almighty has promised the Holy Prophet to explain the verses of the Holy Qur'?n to him. It is evident that this explanation is something separate from the Holy Qur'?n itself. It is not the Holy Qur'?n. It is its explanation or its exegesis. Therefore, it should necessarily be in some other form, distinct from the words of the Holy Book. And this is exactly what is meant by the "unrecited revelation." But the two kinds of revelation, though different in their form, are both revealed to the Holy Prophet; both are from All?h; and both are to be believed and obeyed by the Muslims.

JK- My question here is. How can we know that a certain act, not mentioned in the Quran, is really from him? There are so many inconsistencies in the haidth books already. So what guarantee is there that a certain hadith, even if termed as sahih, will be correct. The issue is simple. If the sahih hadith were to be followed GOD wouldve included them in the Quran so thered be no doubt.

once again please read"If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked."

JK- Yes but like i said that doesnt answer my question regarding the authenticity of the hadith.

To be a source or authority of Islamic law, a hadith must be from the categories of sahih (authentic) or hasan (good). In order for a hadith to be authentic or good it must meet the following criteria

The chain of narration must be unbroken. In other words, each source must have received the hadith directly from the one whose authority he is relating it all the way back to the Prophet peace be upon him. If there is any missing authority, the chain would be considered broken and unacceptable.
Every narrator in the chain must be of acceptable righteousness and character; in other words, each narrator must be morally fit. Impious people are not accepted, for their impiety is a sign that they don?t fear Allah and, hence, they can?t be trusted to take extreme care in narrating the statements of the Prophet peace be upon him. If just one narrator in the chain does not meet these criteria the hadith will have to be rejected.
Moral characteristics are not sufficient. Each narrator must be proficient and exact when it comes to narrating hadith. If a person is known to make lots of mistakes when narrating hadith either from his memory or from his writing, his hadith will not be acceptable.
Both the chain and the text of the hadith must be such that they don?t contradict what has been narrated through stronger means.
Upon inspection of the different ways a hadith is narrated, it must be the case that no mistake or defect is spotted in either the chain or the text of the hadith
Should not contradict with Quran

If any of these conditions are not met, the hadith will be rejected as weak or very weak depending on the magnitude of the weakness. Hadith which are graded weak or very weak are not considered authorities in Islamic law.

Waslam,
A.Albruni

Roshan

Please answer Wakas's point (1854). What example does the Quran not cite?

unknownuser

Salam brother,

You are correct,but those kinde of hadith are few and its obvious that we are not suppose to follow it.

Regards,
A.Albruni

Salam Albruni )

Thats what i thought to when i first found Quran through God alone. Those kind of hadiths are not few brother. Those kind of hadiths are actually in the Authentic/Sahih hadith books. And there are 100's of sahih/authentic hadiths that contradicts Quranic verses, Science, Reason and History.

People here on free-minds don't accept anything unless they have done a research on it, and gathered knowledge about it, and verified it.

The history of Hadith
http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/SP/1996/nov/page1.html

20 Hadiths that contradict/violate the Quranic verses
http//www.submission.org/corruption.html

Critism of hadith has exitisted since the beginning
http//www.free-minds.org/books/kassim8.htm

Above are some interesting articles. Read the articles above and if you have any question, i will answear them for you brother.

I Respect you for keeping an open mind and having the courage to discuss this topic constructively in this forum. Remember that you should verify everything you read, adn not accept anything unless it is accepted through science, history, reason, etc...

Peace and Respect
David

unknownuser

Many Greetings Brother,

1760 - When We said to you Indeed, your Lord encompasses all people. We did not make the vision which We showed to you, and the tree cursed in the Koran except to be a trial for people, and We frighten them, but it only increases them in great insolence.

What was the vision showed ? Can you explain ?
I can explain with the help of Hadis.

5328 - That is all they have of knowledge. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His Path, and those who are guided

Best of greetings brother and thanks for the reply,

The events are explained in Surah 48 (see 620 minute, verse 4827).

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_jBFJgYOg

(
Inna shajarata alzzaqqoomi
4443 That truly the deadly food's tree.

Is the Zaqqum tree physical or parable like below?

A Poison Tree by William Blake

I was angry with my friend
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I water'd it in fears,
Night & morning with my tears;
And I sunned it with smiles,
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright;
And my foe beheld it shine,
And he knew that it was mine,

And into my garden stole
When the night had veil'd the pole
In the morning glad I see
My foe outstretch'd beneath the tree.

Peace

Albruni

Peace "albruni",

JK- I already explained this in my other posts quoting from the Quran that the Prophet was not allowed to explain the Quran on his own.

Yes,Quran was not explained by prophet on his own,Quran says Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (7516-19) Allah Almighty has promised the Holy Prophet to explain the verses of the Holy Quran to him. It is evident that this explanation is something separate from the Holy Quran itself. It is not the Holy Quran. It is its explanation or its exegesis. Therefore, it should necessarily be in some other form, distinct from the words of the Holy Book. And this is exactly what is meant by the "unrecited revelation." But the two kinds of revelation, though different in their form, are both revealed to the Holy Prophet; both are from Allah; and both are to be believed and obeyed by the Muslims.

JK- Here i made it clear that it makes absolutely no sense for GOD to want scholars to start fishing for sahih hadith in between inconsistencies whilst He has already revealed a perfect and preserved Scripture. Like the Quran contains a phrase "and they ask you(Muhammad) concerning menses. SAY....". If GOD wated that the Prophet say teach salat/prayer a similar thing wouldve been mentioned in the Quran "and they ask you concerning salat. SAY....".

God is in all his sense ,it's we who denies to understand.Concider this verse "Take due care of all the prayers and the middle prayer; and stand before Allah in total devotion. But if you are in fear, then (pray) on foot or riding, but when you are in peace, then recite the name of Allah in the way He taught you. (2238-239)"
Can you tell me what is the way to perform prayer when we are in peace ?It means that Allah has taught the way of prayer to the Holy Prophet through some "unrecited revelation" not contained in the Holy Quran, and the Holy Prophet taught it to the Muslims. Thus, the Muslims have been taught by Allah through the teaching of the Holy Prophet. However, the teaching of the Holy Prophet is described in the holy verse as the teaching of Allah, because it was based on the "unrecited revelation."

JK- Follow GOD and the messenger is referring to the Quran ONLY in our time since there is no other way to follow what the messenger said except by upholding the Quran. The statements what the messenger was supposed to say ARE ALSO IN THE QURAN preceded mostly by a "qul" as ive givevn an example above. We dont have to go looking for external hadith which have so much inconsitencies. MOREVER the Quan itself is a messenger and here's the verse which shows this
GOD has prepared for them severe retribution. Therefore, you shall reverence GOD, O you who possess intelligence and believed. GOD has sent down to you a message -*
a messenger* who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.
*6510-11 The ``Messenger'' here is clearly the Quran. Verse 10 talks about "sending down a message,'' and this points to the Quran as the messenger in 6511
This is also logical because the physical messegers die one day but the Message is left over.
JK- No they are not sent to explain anything on their own as ive shown here clearly. The reasons are obviously because a messenger on his own is like the people of his time and does not know what discoveries would be amde in the future and how people would adopt. It is not the duty of the messenger to change peoples culture. Only the universal laws which GOD reveals though Him as a reminder from Him is what counts. GOD Bless!

In 592 it says "Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil) if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."
In 6412 it says "And obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, then Our Messenger is responsible only for conveying the Message clearly."

The Prophet not only has to deliver the message but he has to deliver it clearly. The Arabs can understand the Quran as it's in there own language but still it's been said to convey clearly because obviously the Prophet had to explain it to them and elaborate it to the people just as the next two verses indicate...

1644 - "(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
1664 ? "And WE have not sent down to thee the Book except that thou mayest explain to them that concerning which they have created differences and as a guidance, and a mercy for a people who believe."

These verses show that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent to explain the Quran. It doesn't just mean to proclaim. To proclaim is to 'baligh' like in 567. Here the word is "litubayyina", which means to explain just like how it is used in verse 144 "We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases and He is exalted in power, full of Wisdom."

if the only duty of the prophet is to deliver the quran then why all the apostle sent in the language of his own people.
God sent messangers in Human form rather angels which the disbeliever prefers because they can be taken as model.
God sent more than one messenger to a community because they can explain clearly.

I agree that there are verses which say that the only duty of the messenger is to deliver the message "The messenger is obliged only to convey (the message)"(599, see also 320, 592, 1340, 1635, 82, 2454, 2918, 3617, 4248, 6412). However, does not say that conveying (the message) is simply reciting the Qur'an. The context shows the meaning to be that the Prophet is not responsible for the belief or unbelief of the people or for their obedience or disobedience to the message. His obligation is to simply convey the message.

The basic question underlying this issue has already been answered in detail; and that is the question of the nature of this authority. It has been established through a number of arguments that the obedience of the Holy Prophet was not enjoined upon the Muslims in his capacity of a ruler. It has been enjoined in his capacity of a prophet. Had it been the authority of a ruler only which the Holy Prophet exercised, it would logically be inferred that the authority is tied up with his rule, and as soon as his administrative rule is over, his authority simultaneously ceases to have effect.

But if the authority is a "Prophetic" authority, and not merely a "ruling authority," then it is obvious that it shall continue with the continuance of the prophethood, and shall not disappear until the Holy Prophet no longer remains a prophet.

Now, the only question is whether the Holy Prophet was a prophet of a particular nation or a particular time, or his prophethood extended to the whole mankind for all times. Let us seek the answer from the Holy Quran itself. The Holy Quran says

Say O mankind! I am the Messenger of Allah to you all. (715
And We did not send you (O Prophet) except to the entire mankind, bearing good news and warning. (342
And We did not send you save as a mercy unto all the worlds. (21107)
Blessed be He Who has sent down the Quran on His servant so that he may be a warner to all the worlds. (251)
And We have sent you (O Prophet) for mankind as a messenger. And Allah suffices to be a witness. (479)
And the whole mankind is addressed when it is said
O mankind! The Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe it is better for you. And if you disbelieve, to Allah belongs what is in the heavens and in the earth. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (4170)

The first five verses need no elaboration. They are self-explanatory on the point that the Holy Prophet was sent to the whole mankind and not to a particular people; his prophethood was not limited either in time or in place.

The fifth verse addresses the whole mankind and enjoins upon all of them to believe in the Holy Prophet. Nobody can say that the belief of the Holy Prophet was restricted to his own time. It is, according to this verse, incumbent upon all the peoples, of whatever age, to believe in his Prophethood.

May god guide us to the straight path

Albruni

Best of greetings brother and thanks for the reply,

The events are explained in Surah 48 (see 620 minute, verse 4827).

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0_jBFJgYOg

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Inna shajarata alzzaqqoomi
4443 That truly the deadly food's tree.

Is the Zaqqum tree physical or parable like below?

Salam Brother,

I asked about the vison not about the tree

Salam,
A.Albruni