Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts-hadith
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Peace to all,
I was just going to post this article until I saw yours Arnold, great article, I hope this does lead to a great reawakening in Islam, its also great to see that people are starting to use their common sense and logic to see what are clearly errors and contradictions in traditional Islam compared to the Quran alone. So maybe one day soon they will say we were right all along instead of calling us crazy.
Kurt
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I didnt read this article before now that you put it here on free-minds. These are great news. I think it would be a beginning for the muslims of turkey to see that hadiths are not a part of islam. But i think it just a beginning. People who have followed hadiths all there life will have problems with accepting that hadiths suddenly are not a part of islam. I dont wanna be pessimistic towards this, but as we know over 80% of the humans in the world are easily brainwashed and are followers (sheeps). How can all those years of brainwashing suddenly dissapear/vanish and make people rational towards their religion?
The media and the public off course have a great impact and influence, so it might happen that people in Turkey will change their view on islam. But i think this would take years, many years. Just look at christianity, it took hundreds of years before they reformed it (Correct me if im wrong).
But lets hope for the best
Peace,
David -
Peace,
I already am saying for 2 years, Turkey will be the country that will start the movement on a large scale.
6 months ago I was invited to have a debate with a Turkish Imam concerning several Islamic subjects. So I agreed and went to the debate. I had my points ready to corner him as for example; stoning, pre-destiny, hitting wives, democracy, hadith authenticy and so on.
I started with that it is impossible all Hadith were correct in Bukhari and Muslim, he cut me off and started laughing. He said he believes only a minority of hadith he sees as authentic, he believes people have tempered with the original collections as the Bukhari collection was only used a 100 years after its release. I was stunned, I asked him where he had got this idea from. He said this is what they teach us at the Imam schools in Turkey, but he also used his own head he said.
He also rejected stoning, saying it contradicts the Quran and logic. He rejects pre-destiny, hitting wives and so on.
There was no debate left D
From that moment on I knew it had started.
4153 In time We will show them Our signs in the utmost Horizons and
within themselves, so that it will become clear to them that this Quran is
certainly the truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is
Witness to all things (including this proclamation)? -
Peace,
I already am saying for 2 years, Turkey will be the country that will start the movement on a large scale.
6 months ago I was invited to have a debate with a Turkish Imam concerning several Islamic subjects. So I agreed and went to the debate. I had my points ready to corner him as for example; stoning, pre-destiny, hitting wives, democracy, hadith authenticy and so on.
I started with that it is impossible all Hadith were correct in Bukhari and Muslim, he cut me off and started laughing. He said he believes only a minority of hadith he sees as authentic, he believes people have tempered with the original collections as the Bukhari collection was only used a 100 years after its release. I was stunned, I asked him where he had got this idea from. He said this is what they teach us at the Imam schools in Turkey, but he also used his own head he said.
He also rejected stoning, saying it contradicts the Quran and logic. He rejects pre-destiny, hitting wives and so on.
There was no debate left D
From that moment on I knew it had started.
4153 In time We will show them Our signs in the utmost Horizons and
within themselves, so that it will become clear to them that this Qur?an is
certainly the truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is
Witness to all things (including this proclamation)?Praise be to God ) Thats great news.
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The call for reform must also be met by Muslims in the form of accepting the need for this reformation. Unless the Muslims of the world get behind it (along with the major Islamic powers that be), there will be no progress except for this to become yet another piece of academic wankery with idealistic goals but no grounding in the reality of what's on the ground.
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Good news, but unfortunately this takes places in Turkey because the Arab Muslim 'Scholars' would just say,
"With this fatwa we denounce the heretical belief of the Turkish heathens. Those who follow them will burn in the deepest level of hell forever. Now lets continue our worship of Master Muhammad, may our parents be sacrificed for him."
And the rest of the Muslim world would follow because lets face it average Muslims see the Arabs as the 'guardians' of Islam ...
LOL
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Good news, but unfortunately this takes places in Turkey because the Arab Muslim 'Scholars' would just say,
"With this fatwa we denounce the heretical belief of the Turkish heathens. Those who follow them will burn in the deepest level of hell forever. Now lets continue our worship of Master Muhammad, may our parents be sacrificed for him."
And the rest of the Muslim world would follow because lets face it average Muslims see the Arabs as the 'guardians' of Islam ...
LOL
You've got that right, reminds me of the Pakistani women being told by an arab that she wasn't a 'real Muslim' because she converted (well, her forbearers). I always wonder those who make the claim, do they realise who was worshipping what before Muhammad arrived on the scene?
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The professors at Ankara Theology Faculty are known for their critical position against hadith for a quite sometime. Though they never rejected hadith and sunna in toto (at least in public) but their scholarly articles always reflected mistrust to hadith.
My public debates and radical statements, I believe, made their unpopular critical position more acceptable than before. They will ultimately, revise Bukhari and other Hadith books, making them more palatable to modern Muslims.
But, there is and will be a very strong opposition from powerful religious orders and organizations. But, the Turkish public has been very receptive the message of the Quran alone. The Turkish translation of the Manifesto for Islamic Reform together with another Turkish book on women's dress code is currently in publication. I believe these two books, together with other books, especially the Turkish translation of the Quran, will add momentum to this effort to save hadith and sunna via revision and weight-loss.
Thus, I believe, we should consider the next conference in Istanbul, preferably by the September.
Below is one of the articles I wrote after my live TV debate with top Sunni scholars in Turkey. If you are interested, I will share with you another article about a more recent experience. The article has been published at http//19.org/index.php?id=14,51,0,0,1,0
If you type my name "edip yuksel" at youtube.com you will find the clips from two highly popular debates (the latest one was with the former chief of Turkish Religious Affairs, Prof. S?leyman Ate, who was filled with fear and anger, so much so that he could not engage in face-to-face debate and left the TV studio twice in frustration, and was brought back by the host with some apology and concession from me that I would be less "harsh" against his views.
After one of my debates during Ramadan, which got very high ranking in viewership, made front page news in the Turkish secular and religious media. After that debate, the head of Turkish Religious Affairs (another guy) begged the media not to discuss sensitive religious subjects with unauthorized people.
The Turkish People Received the Message and They Are Embracing It
Edip Y?kselI spent the last two weeks of the year 2000 in Turkey. This was a trip to promote several of my newly published books, including the long-awaited translation of the Quran, The MESSAGE. My people, being in the middle of great social and political turmoil, was ready to listen my words and question all their taboos and dogmas.
My first appearance on a popular and respected TV program took approximately 5 hours in late Saturday night of December 16th. I was against two religious scholars. The live show was receiving phone calls, faxes, e-mails from people and pre-arranged scholars and prominent figures were contacted. The debate was about The Message and my rejection of all Hadith, Sunnah and sectarian jurisprudence as other sources of my religion. The debate, starting from the beginning took heavy tall on the Sunni scholars. They lost numerous battles. They had trouble in defending their holiest Hadith books and each of their attempts to abuse the verses of the Quran to justify their reliance on Hadith backfired. Finally, the one who was also writing columns in a religious newspaper tried the well-known and well-used tactic. He wanted to sling mud on my personality. He seriously turned to me and told me
"We have learned that you are a member of Moon Cult. Did you indeed receive one million dollar from them?"
I said that "I was in the past accused of being Bahai, CIA agent, KGB agent and now I learn that I am also a member of the Moon Cult. Well, let me announce first time that I am also working for Martian aliens!" Then, I turned serious and told the accuser that I will sue him in the court of law for fabricating lies about me. My threat exploded in his face like an omelet! His color changed and he said that he never accused me of anything but asked me questions. The host interrupted and corrected him by telling him that his first statement was an allegation and the second one was a question. Well, in front of millions of people he swallowed his words and lost his credibility if he had any.
One of the most colorful events of the night was when I was asked by a religious union leader to observe the contact prayer (Salaat) according to the Quran. On the podium, I described how I take ablution according to the Quran and I took my shoes and started praying on the podium. (This event was later became news for being the first live broadcast prayer on Turkish TV). The caller objected to the order of my bowing and prostration. He said that I got the order from Hadith and Sunna, not the Quran. I told him that the Quran almost always tells us to "bow and fall prostrate" respectively. Besides, I told him, the Quran addresses those who use their mind. If you want you can hit your head to the ground!
The host of the show contacted me few days later and invited me to another show exclusively on the position of women in Islam. The previous show had received top rating and he was sure that the next one would be the most watched program in Turkey.
The second one was even better; I explained some of the points left from the first show and I presented the position of women from the Quran contrasting it to the of Hadith and Sunnah. Thank God, millions of people in Turkey learned their religion through the Quran alone and discovered the great discrepancy between God's religion and the sectarian teachings. I opened the show by piling the more than twenty volumes of the so-called authentic Six Hadith Books on the desk on top of the Quran. I told the audience that this tower of liturgy is just a fraction of sectarian teachings and they had covered the Quran by them. A religion derived from the Quran alone will be simple to understand by majority of people. Then, the clergymen and scholars will lose their job, since there will not be need for them to "solve" the complexities and contradiction created by endless volumes of teachings. That is the reason they are so upset with us. The second program took about 4 hours and received great public interest.
I was impressed by positive reaction of public. When I walked on the street or commute by train, which was risky, the people would approach me, or wave their hands thanking me for exposing the falsehood of sectarian teachings.
Other TV channels, newspapers and magazines reacted and echoed the issues. Several newspapers and magazines published positive interviews. A popular religious newspaper published articles full of insults and distortion about me and the translation. A columnist attacked my translation for eight days in his columns. The MESSAGE became the best-selling book since the show and thousands people have being visiting www.19.org each day. More than ninety percent of mails I receive from Turkey are supportive and encouraging.
The most interesting reaction came from the leader of Religious Affairs Department, a governmental organization that oversees all the mosques and the hundreds of thousands clerics. The religious leader the day after my first show petitioned the government agency that monitors and regulates TV channels, asking them to ban all religious discussions on private TV stations and restricting to only government's channels. In today's Turkey, thank God, this kind censorship seems impossible.
While in Turkey I participated in many meetings in several cities. There are thousands of highly educated young people embracing the message and ready to dedicate their energy for its promotion and success.
Within few years, Turkey might experience a real reformation in religion, becoming a model for all other so-called Muslim countries. Turkish people are experiencing very difficult times, economically, politically, and socially. However, I see God's message shining and their eyes appreciating it.
Now hundreds of thousands of people in Turkey are saying "La ilahe illallah," with full knowledge of what it means.
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Peace to all,
Dear Bro Edip, let me be one who openly thanks you and commends you for your courage and commitment to the Quran alone movement. I think that history will show that you were one of the first and few of the great reformers of True Islam, you have done more than many of us will ever have a chance to do, and you have faced huge challenges alone and suffered many trials, but you continue to wage the battle against ignorance. Again, on behalf of us here and others, I thank you for your dedication to truth.
Kurt
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Well said bro Kurt.
Peace Bro Edip,
May God reward you for your courage against the enemies of his religion. The ones who want it to remain covered in superstition and falsehood. God willing all believers will follow the example you have set, and truly strive with our lives. The people of most honour in God's eyes are those who are the most righteous. And risking your life for his cause is a great striving that many aspire to but may never meet. You have set the bar very high for the rest of us who stick to arguing on forums (me included) so keep it up!sincerely,
Al -
Edip, masha'allah, and may God bless and reward you. you are brave and awesome. masha'allah, masha'allah. thank you for bringing the Quran's message back to so many Muslims. you have been so busy in the name of faith and truth. may God bless you and be close to you always.
I told him that the Quran almost always tells us to "bow and fall prostrate" respectively. Besides, I told him, the Quran addresses those who use their mind. If you want you can hit your head to the ground!
peace
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I didn't knew you were exposed to public that much. That must bring the hatred of many many narrow minded people.
Thank God the message is being heard now.
That would explain his eventful biography...
It looks like the reform movement has finally hit the ski jump. There's always the slow start at the beginning but hey, what will come out of this?
