Alcohol
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Please excuse my speling mistakes and the litle thank you sign. I am now accesing the internet by a phone. I ask God to guide us in understanding our faith and I ask God to forgive me, other members of this forum and all other Muslims our sins of past, present and future. Peace
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My question is Would serving alcohol to a responsible crowd be allowed acording to Koran Also aid drinking it responsibly be allowed? Thanks
welcomePlease look at the following
2219
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit. And they ask you how much they are to give, say The excess. It is thus that Allah clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.The word used in 2219 is "AlKhamr" that means intoxicants, it includes all types of intoxicants not matter what you name it. And it is said "Ithmun Kabeer", Ithm is something that is already haraam.
Please follow the word "Ithm" in Arabic in the following aayaats.
52
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of Allah, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted Sanctuary; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of Allah, for the retribution of Allah is severe.We are not allowed to participate or help each other with "Ithm".
6120
6120 And leave what is openly a sin and what is subtle of it; those who earn sin will be punished for what they have taken.We are asked to leave "Ithm" here.
733
733 Say My Lord has made unlawful lewdness; what is evident of it and what is subtle; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with Allah that which He has never authorized, and that you say about Allah what you do not know.Here it clearly says that "Ithm" is haraam.
Hope this may help inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
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Greetings and Peace, Peki and all others group
My question is Would serving alcohol to a responsible crowd be allowed acording to Koran Also aid drinking it responsibly be allowed? Thanks
welcomeIt depends upon your understanding. This issue has been seriously debated in the following thread (among other threads) http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10889.0
It is also the subject of at least one article on the main page. Here are links
http//www.free-minds.org/alcohol
http//www.free-minds.org/alcohol2What does ALLAH instruct regarding alcohol?
"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful." (590)
"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much are they to give, Say ?The excess.? It is thus that GOD clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2219)
"O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. GOD is Pardoning, Forgiving." (443)
"Is the example of Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of wine that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?" (4715)
Conclusion
1.Nowhere does GOD forbid alcohol in the Quran...and AQ is clear, complete and fully detailed. Where things are forbidden, (flesh of swine, for instance), there is no mincing of words and no doubt whatsoever. yes
2.God informs us that Salat is not to be approached while intoxicated. This nullifies the
haramargument in its infancy.3.God tells us heaven will have rivers of alcohol as well as milk and honey. This again nullifies the
haramargument as no pig or blood or any otherharamelements are made available. O04.The verse used most to outlaw alcohol speaks of the
deviland that he should be avoided (not the alcohol).Clearly alcohol is not forbidden in Islam and the only restriction found in the Quran is to avoid making Salat if intoxicated.
However, having said all of the above, it must be noted that alcohol is to treated with
cautionas it may lead to sin and is one of the preferred tools used by the devil to entice humankind. '(http//www.free-minds.org/alcohol2
?Say, "Did you note how GOD sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did GOD give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD?" Does it ever occur to those who fabricate lies about GOD that they will have to face Him on the Day of Resurrection? Certainly, GOD showers the people with His grace, but most of them are unappreciative.? 1059-60
?They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.? 4221
"And why should you not eat that on which the name of GOD has been mentioned, when He has fully detailed to you what has been made unlawful; except what you are forced to? Many misguide by their desires without knowledge; your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." (6119)
Ultimately, go with your understanding--not mine and not anybody else's. yay IF you do choose to provide alcohol, please make sure that non-alcoholic drinks are also available--and that intoxicated guests have a safe way to get home.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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1.Nowhere does GOD forbid alcohol in the Quran...and AQ is clear, complete and fully detailed. Where things are forbidden, (flesh of swine, for instance), there is no mincing of words and no doubt whatsoever. yes
This is a simple fact about Alcohol and Quran. Alcohol is NOT haram (forbidden) in Quran.
Lost are those who slay their children, from folly, without knowledge, and forbid food which Allah hath provided for them, inventing (lies) against Allah. They have indeed gone astray and heeded no guidance.
God clearly determines which food/drinks forbidden in 6145
Say "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah.s". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
But "The Islam" forbids it. If you begin to experience, you will see that the thing called "The Islam" does not give too much credit to Quran all time. The Islam has own rules.
Peace.
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Greetings and Peace, Mazhar and all others group
What about other things?
590-91
AQ 591 pertains to the discussion and belongs in the conversation.
590 "O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and sacraments, and fortunes are an affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful."
591 "The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering GOD and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?"
The word "deterred" means discouraged--not forbidden.
Here is another use of "deterred" in AQ
2016 "So do not be deterred from it by he who does not believe in it and followed his desire and perished."
On another note...
16116 "And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe This is lawful, and that is forbidden; that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed."
May ALLAH see fit to grant us all useful knowledge.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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590 O you who acknowledge, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you then desist?
The fact is that alcohol is discouraged in the Quran because it can lead to strife, confusion and repel you from the remembrance of God.
Before you take a sip of alcohol ask yourself these questions
Question 1 Would an intelligent and sincere servant of God willfully consume a substance knowing full well that it can cause more harm than good???
Question 2 Is it worth the risk? ( Alcohol vs remembrance of God )
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A key to practising Islam, is rejection of Satan. You really should understand this. It was not the job of the prophet or anyones job to spoonfeed those who did not understand the text. So I shall leave it at this short note.
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O, those/you who consciously proclaim to have accepted/become believers, listen;
Indeed the alcoholic drinks and gambling, and the stationary stone erections and decision making/apportion matters/seek judgments through featherless arrows are but the confusing/brain scattering/disconcerting/fidgeting filthy tactic from the act of Shaitan.How one avoids Shait'aan while he prefers to do the act at the same time? He merely follows Shaitaan.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
The fact is that alcohol is discouraged in the Quran because it can lead to strife, confusion and repel you from the remembrance of God.
Agreed. On this there is no doubt. However, discouraged does not equal forbidden.
Before you take a sip of alcohol ask yourself these questions
Question 1 Would an intelligent and sincere servant of God willfully consume a substance knowing full well that it can cause more harm than good???
Question 2 Is it worth the risk? ( Alcohol vs remembrance of God )
Both answers require individual judgement calls.
If one chooses to consume alcohol, would the amount consumed lead to intoxication? ALLAH did not put nice things on earth for no purpose. If an example of paradise is that it contains rivers of wine, is paradise full of bad things? Are you aware that some people get intoxicated from purposely drinking too much water (water intoxication)? Should water be avoided? Are you aware that many fruit juices (orange juice, for instance) naturally contain small amounts of alcohol? Good luck avoiding alcohol--Satan's gonna GITCHA! > <sarcasm> Every known substance is dangerous in the wrong amount--and can thus (under certain circumstances) cause more harm than good. Alcohol has more potential for abuse than some other substances, and as such we should guard ourselves against being too carefree with it. There is some benefit in it. This doesn't mean that anybody has to purposely drink it--to drink or not to drink is a personal decision.
What else does the Quran state?
1667 And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make wine and a good provision. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.
To each their own. Would it be worse for a person to drink something that is discouraged, or for a person to fabricate lies about what ALLAH allows/disallows, hmm? hmm
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Is your English bad Abdul-Hadi???
Did I not say that intoxicants are discouraged in the Quran?
And yes you are right it is not forbidden.
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say, "In them is great harm, and a benefit for people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." They ask you how much are they to give, say, "The excess." Thus, God clarifies for you the signs that you may think.
However God does not encourage it.
If God did encourage intoxicants then I would not say otherwise however he didn?t say otherwise. God does not encourage intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance since they are tools of affliction used by the devil.
My question is why would anyone consume intoxicants such as alcohol knowing full well it contains more harm than good. Alcohol is a toxic. Even if it is consumed in moderation it is still harmful to the body (especially among women)
http//pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa46.htm
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Salaam all,
"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful." (590)
"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much are they to give, Say ?The excess.? It is thus that GOD clarifies for you the revelations that you may think." (2219)
"O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. GOD is Pardoning, Forgiving." (443)
The aayaats above are not using the same word in Arabic for intoxicants. The problem is in translation, please follow Arabic text. Here it goes...
590
2219
The above two aayaats used the word "AlKhamr" that means "intoxicants"
443
1667
"Sukaara" is the word used in the above two aayaats and NOT the same word "AlKhamr" as used above.
And no one bothers to take a look at the word "Ithm" + "Kabeer" in 2219, and "Ithm" is already HARAAM in 733. Please look at my post above.
May Allah increase us knowledge and guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Greetings and Peace, KDC501, mmkhan, and all others group
@KDC501 You mad, bro? We are in agreement.
@mmkhan What is your understanding of the word "Sukaara?" Here's what I've found
A state of intoxication, inebriation or drunkenness
A state in which one is not in one?s senses
A state when one has lost one?s wits
A condition when there is a hindrance between a person and his understanding and wits, and when he may take a wrong decision
A state in which one is overpowered by any disturbing element which may distract one?s attention
A state of mental disequilibrium
A state of insensibility
A state of mental blindness
A state of distraction or delirium
A state in which one does not understand what he utters
A state of ?unmindfulness? or ?the want of requisite knowledge or cognizance of a thing?http//quranicteachings.co.uk/salat-understanding.htm
If this is correct, "Sukaara" would include "AlKhamr." What does this understanding add to the question at hand?
Rain means wet streets, but wet streets do not mean rain. I don't follow your reasoning linking "haraam." Please consider what follows below as well, especially regarding water.
There is no collective answer to the question regarding "...why would anyone consume intoxicants..." Is it a question, or an argument? In any case, that is between an individual and ALLAH. My encouragement to all is to not be judgemental on other than self. 10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until GOD judges. And He is the best of judges. Even water can be an intoxicant. Does reason indicate that it is the consumption of what can cause intoxication that is discouraged, or the intoxication itself that is discouraged? If reason *seems* to indicate the former, a person would be discouraged from drinking any liquid. Think about it. For people who believe that alcohol (in *any* amount) is discouraged, consider this. "For instance, ethyl alcohol is present in fruit and vegetables naturally. As fruit and vegetables ripen, certain amounts of ethyl alcohol appears during fermentation as by-products. Most of the natural aromas used in the food and drink industry, ethyl alcohol that has formed naturally is present. In the food regulations all over the world, the existence of certain amounts of ethyl alcohol is regarded as natural." http//www.questionsonislam.com/index.php?s=show_qna&id=2772 "The human body constantly produces small amounts of alcohol itself. Normal levels of 0.01 to 0.03 mg of alcohol/100 ml are contained in the blood." http//www.allergy.org.au/aer/infobulletins/Alcohol_Allergy.htm It is possible for a person to drink (in moderation) without becoming intoxicated. Some people enjoy the flavor of alcohol in food or beverage. There are also social customs (that have nothing to do with Islam) in many countries. Whatever the reason (IF an individual chooses to consume alcohol) the decision is between the individual and ALLAH alone. Does anybody have the effrontery to claim to be able to judge in place of ALLAH? nope For all the would-be judges out there--good luck with that! ;D May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers. peace ~Abdul-Hadi -
Salaam Brother AH,
@mmkhan What is your understanding of the word "Sukaara?" Here's what I've found
A state of intoxication, inebriation or drunkenness
A state in which one is not in one?s senses
A state when one has lost one?s wits
A condition when there is a hindrance between a person and his understanding and wits, and when he may take a wrong decision
A state in which one is overpowered by any disturbing element which may distract one?s attention
A state of mental disequilibrium
A state of insensibility
A state of mental blindness
A state of distraction or delirium
A state in which one does not understand what he utters
A state of ?unmindfulness? or ?the want of requisite knowledge or cognizance of a thing?http//quranicteachings.co.uk/salat-understanding.htm
If this is correct, "Sukaara" would include "AlKhamr." What does this understanding add to the question at hand?
As per my understanding "Sukaara" means "dizziness" or something like that but not intoxication. When two different words are used i.e., "Khamr" and "Sukaara" that clearly means there is a difference between those two, you cannot mix them up or use them synonymously.
BTW, what do you understand by the word "Khamr"? Please clarify.
Rain means wet streets, but wet streets do not mean rain. I don't follow your reasoning linking "haraam." Please consider what follows below as well, especially regarding water.
If you cannot follow the reasoning that I gave, please take enough time to read reply # 2.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Greetings and Peace, mmkhan and all group
My comments follow in red
As per my understanding "Sukaara" means "dizziness" or something like that but not intoxication. When two different words are used i.e., "Khamr" and "Sukaara" that clearly means there is a difference between those two, you cannot mix them up or use them synonymously.
BTW, what do you understand by the word "Khamr"? Please clarify.
My understanding is that "Khamr" literally means "alcoholic drink" but metaphorically means "intoxicant." The two words are not the same, but it seems that one word contains the meaning of the other. It is like "Khamr" means wet and "Sukaara" means water...water is wet but wet does not necessarily mean water; "Sukaara" includes (but is not limited to) "Khamr".
If you cannot follow the reasoning that I gave, please take enough time to read reply # 2.
I've looked at the reasoning, including all of the replies. Everyone must follow their own reasoning. You to your reason; me to mine. There is a reason that intoxicants aren't outright banned in AQ--they weren't intended to be. I'm hard pressed to think of a "sin" that has "some benefits,"is listed in the example of paradise as being plentiful, and is mentioned alongside example of good provision--and isn't listed by name as being a sin/haraam. Very curious indeed.
Since water is an intoxicant, is it discouraged? Morphine is definitely an intoxicant--are there any circumstances in which it is useful? Even cocaine is sometimes used in dentistry.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide us all.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Salaam AH,
My understanding is that "Khamr" literally means "alcoholic drink" but metaphorically means "intoxicant." The two words are not the same, but it seems that one word contains the meaning of the other. It is like "Khamr" means wet and "Sukaara" means water...water is wet but wet does not necessarily mean water; "Sukaara" includes (but is not limited to) "Khamr".
I don't think so brother. But would like to know how do you get to this understanding? Can you please clarify?
I've looked at the reasoning, including all of the replies. Everyone must follow their own reasoning. You to your reason; me to mine.
Sure!
There is a reason that intoxicants aren't outright banned in AQ--they weren't intended to be. I'm hard pressed to think of a "sin" that has "some benefits,"is listed in the example of paradise as being plentiful, and is mentioned alongside example of good provision--and isn't listed by name as being a sin/haraam. Very curious indeed.
Your thinking is wrong brother. Please take a look at the following aayaats.
5617
5618
5619
5617 Moving among them will be immortal children.
5618 With cups, pitchers, and a cup of pure drink.
5619 They do not get a headache from it, nor do they get exhausted.Interestingly, the same word that is used in 2219 i.e., "Ithm" for "Khamr" is used in the following aayaats.
5222
5223
5222 We will supply them with fruit and meat such as they desire.
5223 They will exchange with one another a cup wherein no ill speech or commission of sin.5625
5626
5625 They never hear any nonsense therein, nor sinful utterances.
5626 Only the utterances of Peace. Peace.Now you have to decide what you want brother, it is very clear to me. Just think why the same word "Ithm" is been used in 5223 with "drink"?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Greetings and Peace, mmkhan and all others group
My comments follow in maroon.
I had said "...it seems that one word contains the meaning of the other."
I don't think so brother. But would like to know how do you get to this understanding? Can you please clarify?
Intoxicants (in certain amount) cause intoxication. If one takes "AlKhamar" to mean intoxicant, one of the physiological signs/manifestations/effects of consuming an intoxicant (in sufficient quantity) is dizziness. Perhaps my wording was awkward, but I was trying to say that one causes the effect of the other.
I had said "...is listed in the example of paradise as being plentiful..."
Your thinking is wrong brother. Please take a look at the following aayaats.
5617
5618
5619
5617 Moving among them will be immortal children.
5618 With cups, pitchers, and a cup of pure drink.
5619 They do not get a headache from it, nor do they get exhausted.AQ 4715 specifies rivers of wine (wa-anhrun min khamrin).
Interestingly, the same word that is used in 2219 i.e., "Ithm" for "Khamr" is used in the following aayaats.
5222
5223
5222 We will supply them with fruit and meat such as they desire.
5223 They will exchange with one another a cup wherein no ill speech or commission of sin.Actually, the word used in 5223 is not the same. The word used in 5223 is "tathmun." I now present back to you your own words (emphasis added). "When two different words are used i.e., "Khamr" and "Sukaara" that clearly means there is a difference between those two, you cannot mix them up or use them synonymously. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=52&verse=23
HOWEVER, the exact same word, "ith'mun" is used in 491211. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=49&verse=12 What is stated there is the following
"O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Merciful."
Using the logic of AQ 4912, we should avoid MUCH intoxicant--but not necessarily SOME.
5625
5626
5625 They never hear any nonsense therein, nor sinful utterances.
5626 Only the utterances of Peace. Peace.Now you have to decide what you want brother, it is very clear to me. Just think why the same word "Ithm" is been used in 5223 with "drink"?
As has been demonstrated, the word is not the same--and it follows that the meaning is also not the same. If the word "Ithm" ~had~ been used, it would be tantamount to AQ stating that sin is allowed in paradise.
My ~personal~ understanding is that alcohol/intoxicants are not in themselves discouraged (except in amounts that cause intoxication)--and it is the intoxication (and all else that leads astray) that is discouraged. Intoxication is not in itself forbidden.
I invite you to put forward your understanding, in statement form.
ALLAH knows best.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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590 O you who acknowledge, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you then desist?
The fact is that alcohol is discouraged in the Quran because it can lead to strife, confusion and repel you from the remembrance of God.
Before you take a sip of alcohol ask yourself these questions
Question 1 Would an intelligent and sincere servant of God willfully consume a substance knowing full well that it can cause more harm than good???
Question 2 Is it worth the risk? ( Alcohol vs remembrance of God )
There are lots of good replies to this thread. If speaking strictly from the Koran, it seems that alcohol is not forbidden. Personally, I lean toward the view of KDC501's quote above. While alcohol is possibly okay in moderation, I think it tends to open people up to a very devilish state of mind. Hardcore alcoholism is no joke, and can lead an individual to a very nightmarish existence (and quite often, making his/her family and friends' existence pretty nightmarish as well).
A very wise friend once pointed out to me the absurdity of some of the names of the drinks people put into their bodies Colt 45, Cobra, Magnum, etc. Why would anyone put something like that into their bodies? And yes, I do realize that not all drinkers consume malt liquors named after firearms and snakes.