I think there should be a time limit after which one shldnt be able to delete...
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In the case of online newspapers, you can get things taken of the online content section. In the example I gave about Chris Huhne and his LSD comments - those were made using a fake name. But the thing about political journalists is that they are expert researchers, they knew the right people to ask in his university, they knew how to track down his circle of 'friends' and bribe information from them.
Of course, I don't have any political aspirations. However, in the world of online chat, lots of people use their same username for lots of different forums, in one or two of which lots of us give away our identity, if you're with people you know. Combined with your IP address being stored, it is far from impossible for an experienced journalist to track down a persons different online identities, without even breaking the law, which they are far from averse to.
If we take a lesser example that will apply to far more of us, there are lots of things we are comfortable saying anonymously, but wouldn't want to say directly to our friends, or some other group of people we hang around with. So we say some things on here, in the belief it will stay anonymous. Then we come across an interesting post and think - "Hey, that's really interesting, I'd like to show my friend Adam that" - but we don't want Adam to see one or two of the posts we have made. So we don't show Adam the forum, and the forum misses out on a new member, because we can't delete one or two silly posts.
So you don't need to be a famous politician to want to keep some of your thoughts private. And what if we do have a budding politician among the Quran aloners here? Would we want to disadvantage them by preventing them deleting controversial opinions they have posted? That would be preventing people who share our beliefs coming to power and making the world a happier, more peaceful place, just because we're too obstinate and bloody headed to allow the flow of a couple of ancient threads be partially disrupted.
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Who can you really talk to about anything? & peace
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Peace Mahmud, all,
Would we want to disadvantage them by preventing them deleting controversial opinions they have posted?...there are lots of things we are comfortable saying anonymously, but wouldn't want to say directly to our friends, or some other group of people we hang around with
This is a forum for the study of the qur'an, not a place to vent closet opinions that you're ashamed of. Part of the system of islam is being truthful, standing by your word, and taking responsibility for your actions/thoughts/opinions. If that's not in the cards for you, I'd suggest finding another place that caters to confessional-style posting. I mean no disrespect or offense, but let's please keep things in their proper perspective.
Peace,
Tay -
That can work both ways Tay. People are wrong if they post maliciously, but then people are also wrong if they prevent others correcting themselves. The desire to hurt someone by preventing them correcting their mistakes is also haram, it is malicious in itself and has no place on a forum for the study of the Quran.
Of course, this forum has lots of catagories, far more than just studying the Quran.
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Peace Mahmud, Someone,
desire to hurt someone by preventing...
This has become a play on semantics. No one is out to hurt anyone - thus your calling it haram is unfounded. In fact, I would even go as far as calling it slightly deceitful if one's intention was to erase his/her post simply because he/she feels the need to correct something. In real life, there is no deleting of history. I'm not sure why you think this should be any different.
If you make a mistake, you face up to it and correct it. Simple.
You can always correct earlier post by re-posting your new views or corrections to some understandings and actions in the related thread. As you know, no one is perfect but the god.
Thank you.
Peace,
Tay -
In ordinary conversation people let mistakes go. On internet forums they can be quoted and re-quoted. The two are really quite different.
Do you also object to pencils having erasers?
From the New Scientist
http//www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19726431.600
"A system that records every detail willy-nilly and makes that information accessible on an ongoing basis is one that will result in mass confusion," according to Dan Schacter of Harvard University. He says we forget because the brain has developed strategies to weed out irrelevant or out-of-date information. Efficient forgetting is a crucial part of having a fully functioning memory. When we forget something useful, he says, it just shows that this pruning system is working a little too well.
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Peace Mahmud,
In ordinary conversation people let mistakes go.
And some do not - same as you would find in a forum, since it is people we're dealing with here.
On internet forums they can be quoted and re-quoted.
In real life, people use memory instead of quotes and re-quotes.
The two are really quite different.
I disagree.
Do you also object to pencils having erasers?
Nice strawman. Written words, in pencil, in privacy, being erased, are not equal to typed words, in public which people have already responded to, being deleted. I'm not really sure why I'm explaining this since you seem bright enough to know the difference.
Nevertheless, here is the forum rule, among others, if you haven't seen it
There is a time limit for edits on posts which is currently (120 minutes). After this, one cannot edit their posts or delete them. If there are any valid/important reasons for wanting something deleted or edited after the time limit expires, please contact the mods/admin. They will look into it and offer assistance as per the requirements of the situation.
Peace,
Tay -
Yes, it's easy to point out stupid rules, but I thought the whole idea of being progressive was to make ourselves more free, not to be enslaved to arbitrary authority. This is nothing to do with semantics, it is a genuine issue of the freedom of the individual.
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Peace Mahmud,
"Stupid" to you - obviously not everyone else. Should "progressive" bow down to your whims? The point you seem to be missing is that this was installed as a result of abuse and enough people asking for it to be installed. It wasn't always there, nor did it magically appear, nor was it an arbitrary decision by a mod in lala-land. You've made your case and it wasn't very strong, nor did you get any support.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
This has become a play on semantics. No one is out to hurt anyone - thus your calling it haram is unfounded. In fact, I would even go as far as calling it slightly deceitful if one's intention was to erase his/her post simply because he/she feels the need to correct something. In real life, there is no deleting of history. I'm not sure why you think this should be any different.
It's not unfounded at all. Of course there is no deleting of history. There is deleting of unnecessary information in the present. If you don't want to argue something anymore, you should be able to withdraw your argument.
And I'd call it remarkably naive of you to think that no one is out to hurt anyone. Do you think the world is full of sunshine and buttercups? Do you think that just because someone comes on to this website they have no aggression, no temper? No desire to win or to humiliate others? Have you never heard of Sigmund Freud?
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Peace Mahmud,
It's not unfounded at all.
Yes, it is - unless you have some evidence from the qur'an which states it's haram as you previously said.
And I'd call it remarkably naive of you to think that no one is out to hurt anyone. Do you think the world is full of sunshine and buttercups?
Umm...I'm not sure where you got that from. Here's what you said previously
The desire to hurt someone by preventing them correcting their mistakes is also haram.This is in reference to the subject of this thread, which is the ability to delete one's posts, aka, the discussion you and I are having. Nothing about sunshine, buttercups, or marshmallows either.
Here's my response
"No one is out to hurt anyone"
This is in reference to the moderators and administrators of this forum, aka, the people you claimed want to hurt others.Will there be anything else?
Peace,
Tay -
Yes, you haven't answered my point.
Of course there is no deleting of history. There is deleting of unnecessary information in the present. If you don't want to argue something anymore, you should be able to withdraw your argument.
And yes, it is stupid to me that the so called progressives earlier in this thread don't understand that, but think deleting a post is somehow time-traveling sacrilege against Allah.
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Seems fair enough. If I wanted to get your opinions on somethin personal that's botherin me, I could do that and later, say, after a few months, ask an admin to delete it. No harm done. One of the benefits of a forum like this one is gettin group therapy under complete anonymity, isn't it?
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They rant at you when you ask them to do that.
Really!!! I am shocked! Thanks for the tip Mahmud.
Peace and God bless.To the moderators If I placed a personal account of my experiences with family members, to get advice on how to deal with them, and then, after a few months, wanted the post removed, will you refuse to do it. I am not askin for the removal of my entries in a debate or something like that.
Awaitin your answer
Sarah -
Peace Sarah
I probably would refuse to remove your post. Keep in mind entries here are seen to be worthwhile to all observers. Be careful when you "dare" to post any "personal" information especially in the context of seeking the "growth" and dealing with the "incessant testing".
Joe