Would someone explain 6:130 for me
-
Again - thanks very much for that clarification Amin74.
-
235 ?And We told early Mankind/Adam and all by which it is united/Azwaj , Reside in this existence where you can find everything for your nourishment and development and partake the fruit (results) thereof as you please. But do not go near the dispute of who is of better origins . Or, you will become those that displace your goals and equality from its rightful place and will become oppressors/Zalimeen.?
236 But Selfishness (Shaitan=Shaat=long rope=that which creates distance between one another) caused them both (men as well as women) to stumble therein (Azalla=to slip by accident with your foot or tongue/ to make a mistake) and got them out of the state (of Oneness 2213 and progression) they were in. And so We said, ?Degraded (habt=to be degraded/go from a high level to a low level/ to be weakened/to transgress into evil/to be dispised) you have become with wedges of discord among yourselves! There shall be for you habitation and livelihood on earth for a while (compared to the Next Stage of Existence (1110.?
Habt doesn't mean to go from one place to the other. It refers to your state of being. It could be used for example for a person who was a millionaire who turned into a bum on the streets begging for food. Early mankind became degraded because they fought with one another about who was better of origins, tribal warfare, shajara in verse 235.
http//deenrc.wordpress.com/quran-blog/
-
Peace Amin,
To respond to your post. You haven't really read my article as I clearly say the term Malikah is not a title but a description of an attribute. This attribute can be recognized in several things and so in the Quran, Malikah doesn't mean one thing but several things depending on the context. So forces of nature is only ONE of the several meanings the term Malikah can have.
Since you just found out Al-Ardh can mean earth (the root meaning refers to that which you can walk on and live on, thus one of the main meanings is the earth), I understand your understanding of Arabic is still limited. I encourage you to keep researching and develop your understanding but I advice also to be patient with your conclusions since the english translations can be very deceptive in their presentation and differ with or limit the Arabic meanings of the original Arabic verse and when you do research the Arabic more closely, be patient as the potential of Arabic meanings can be very wide. Keep looking and thinking and especially keep asking, this is how I learned it..
-
In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.
Peace be with you."O assembly of jinn and men" )
Here Prophet and messenger Mohammed, is reciting to the crowd. One can almost see it, hahah.
Jinn may indeed be present in men, but they are separate beings.Peace be with you.
-
Well yes I do agree with Arnold on that one - not to jump to conclusions - but to remain open to the notion that we may change as we keep acquiring wisdom and evolving.
And particularly with reference to deciphering the true meanings of Arabic words
I looked back in the book and it references that on Pardise there was much abudance of vegetation and growth and particularly a lot bubbling hot springs' etc and it was a virginal landscape. Up on the mountian there was particular emphasis of hot coal - the descriptions of the areas does not relate entirely to earth as we know it - therefore it coudl be meaning that with Adam's downfalll - the landsacpe of paradise became changed to more of a barren nature - as in earth/soil as opposed to a lush garden (paradise - which apparently in persian means garden). There started the need to cultivate and farm in order to be able to feed and live. This woudol be earth as we know it. it is also consistent that there woudl not be much point in relating abotu the story in heaven if it did not have much practical application to us humans - i.e that our discesnion is very much a reality while we are on this realm/planet itself.
Anyway this is probably moving in to much irrelvent conjecture - I guess it does not really matter where the place is - it's the message behind it which is the most important - that of adam/mankind disobeying God's instructions to not approach the tree and falling from their higher position (incidentally the book describes the tree to be the metaphor for holding knowledge of good and evil and the incident to temptation mark the second crucial turning point in Adam's life when man began to seek the unknown. That all too human quest for knowledge became the mortal sin......... well in another capacity it is perhaps talking really of a chase for immortality
Surah 20 Ta ha V117 Then we said O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife so let him not get you both out of the garden. so that thou art landed in misery. V120 But satan whispered evil to him he said, O Adam! Shall I lead thee to the tree of eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?? V122 But his Lord chose him (for his grace) He turned to him, and gave him guidance.? V123?..but if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me, whosoever follows My guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall in to misery V124 ?But whosoever turns away from my message, verily for him is a life narrowed down??.?
-
I'VE GOT IT - THE STORY OF THE DOWNFALL OF ADAM IS CONCERNED WITH WHILST HE WAS ON EARTH!!!!
V120 But satan whispered evil to him he said, O Adam! Shall I lead thee to the tree of eternity and to a kingdom that never decays??
Adam saw that people were being born and dying around him - he sought to live eternally in the comfort of pradise and this was the vulnerability of attack by satan - satan was able to entice him with prospects of gaining immortality...Shall I lead thee to the tree of eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?. if Adam were in a heavenly non-earth abode - then more than likely from the description of the hereafter - we understand that there is no decay there - therefore why the wish to live forever?
But I geuss who is to say that there are differnt types of heaven and that teh original one where adam and satan were - there was decay in that.
-
Salaam everyone,
Where to begin. Well I guess I'll start with what Arnold said here
You haven't really read my article as I clearly say the term Malikah is not a title but a description of an attribute. This attribute can be recognized in several things and so in the Quran, Malikah doesn't mean one thing but several things depending on the context. So forces of nature is only ONE of the several meanings the term Malikah can have.
I did read your articles. I have them saved on my computer at home, and I agree with you. Malikah and Jinn are not titles but descriptions and it does depend on the context the words are used. But to start, in regards to Jinn I have shown that in many verses it IS talking about Jinn as men. That is men who Allah considers something besides humans who are descendants of Adam. Both Adam AND Iblis had descendants and they are in opposition to each other. This is clear from my last posts. The descendants of Iblis are flesh and blood men just like the descendants of Adam.
Now to tackle verse 236.
First I would like to post the Arabic breakdown that I was given of that verse below.
http//i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/Ali74/Photos1/Ch2v36Arabicbreakdown.jpg
http//i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/Ali74/Photos1/Ch2v36godownkeywords.jpg
I think that it is clear that Adam, Eve and Iblis were all sent down to Earth. Now below is a definition of the word Ihbitu from the Quran dictionary.
http//i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/Ali74/Photos1/untitled1.jpg
http//i66.photobucket.com/albums/h246/Ali74/Photos1/untitled2.jpgArnold said this
Habt doesn't mean to go from one place to the other. It refers to your state of being.
But if you look above, in the context of 236 it is saying to get down from one place to another in a physical sense. Yes it can refer to a state of being but it doesn't here. Especially since the word Al Ardi is referring to the Earth. They were all in one place then cast down to Earth. It's right there in front of your face.
I would also like you to pay particular attention to the part of 236 that says they will be enemies of one another. I have already shown how Jinn are clearly referred to as men in multiple verses in Al Quran, and I do agree that the word Jinn may refer to other things in other verses. This should be looked into. I have also shown how their are two separate creation processes mentioned in Al Quran. Particularly in 1528-29 and 327-9. In verse 327-9 we see that Adams offspring are mentioned as being made from water while the word water is never mentioned in the story of Adams metaphysical creation. We also see from verse 1850 that Satan also had offspring and from 236 that he too was cast down to Earth from the metaphysical realm to the Earthly realm.
Now considering all of this and that Allah said the offspring of Iblis would be the enemies of the offspring of Adam, I would like to point out a particular verse in the Bible that when seen in this light, it's meaning becomes very clear. This is John 81-42. I am posting almost the entire chapter of John 8 because the incident is so incredible when we understand it from the Quranic evidence I have posted above in this post and other previous posts.
John 8
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
The Validity of Jesus' Testimony12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."
14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."
19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"
"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.
21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."
22This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"
23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
25"Who are you?" they asked.
"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."
27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.
The Children of Abraham31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"
34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father."
39"Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."The Children of the Devil
42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
Seeing John 8 in this new light really seems to answer a lot of questions about this story as well as Jesus' message. First notice that Jesus says he is the Son of Man. Here he is saying he is a descendant of Adam! This is what he is saying when he says he is the son of man! Next we see that Jesus also new who the corrupt Pharisees were descended from. Keep in mind that these corrupt Pharisees where also flesh and blood mortals. Jesus says that they are the children of the devil! He even challenges them when they claim they are descended from Abraham. He tells them that if this were indeed true that they would act in the ways of Abraham, but Jesus says, "You are doing the things your own father does."!
Jesus here is making a clear distinction between who he himself is descended from and who the corrupt Pharisees are descended from! When I came across this it made me shudder.
Iblis and his offspring are NOT our own nafs. This I proved with verse 327-9 which describes mans physical creation in the Earthly realm and says that we are given our senses as something separate from the spirit or roh. And this process of creation only takes place in the physical creation process not in the creation process that is described in verse 236, in the metaphysical world. And Iblis, a Jinn, existed at this time, long before our nafs were fashioned into us by God.
As far as Angels are concerned, yes the word Malikah may refer to things other then what we might consider 'Angels' but I already proved with verses 3372 and 4172 that Allah makes a distinction between earthly forces and some malikah, as he says those that are not near him may not follow his word. Or in other words they have free will which means not every mention of malikah is referring to forces but to actual free will personalities that we call 'Angels'.
Alhamdulillah and peace everyone.
-
Peace,
Sorry I've been away for a while.
Keep in mind 3440-41, the malikah tell the God that most humans served the jinn. Can you tell me how this is? There are not many I know of who 'serve' the jinn. In fact most people don't even know what a 'jinn' is. Keep in mind also what Satan says in 717
"Then I will come to them from between their hands, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left..."
How? At this point he has no 'descendants'. How can 'he' do this to all of humankind simultaneously?
Al-Ard is NOT the earth. It's the land. Try fitting the earth into 17103 and see how that goes. Also, if they were in 'heaven', Satan wouldn't promise them immortality (720)
Eve? There's no eve mentioned in the quran.
The malaikah didn't 'bow' nor 'prostrated' before Man; they submitted i.e. obeyed.
If you think sujud is physical have fun explaining 258 and 1315. The jinns are definitely seperate from the malikah, because there are good among them (chapter 72).
For Habata, look at 261. Is Moses telling his people to go down to some place off the earth?!
Or a different part of the earth?
-
Thanks House Md - some useful pointers there.
Also just came across this - which suggests only on earth do matters decay
Surah 55 V26 All that is on earth will perish
-
And
Surah55 V14-15 He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery. And he created Jinns from fire free of smoke
V31 soon shall We settle your affairs, O both ye worlds!
-
Salaam,
Keep in mind 3440-41, the malikah tell the God that most humans served the jinn. Can you tell me how this is? There are not many I know of who 'serve' the jinn. In fact most people don't even know what a 'jinn' is. Keep in mind also what Satan says in 717
Here i would say that the Jinn we serve are men. This is because they look just like us. Jesus clearly shows a distinction between his ancestral lineage, Adam, and the Pharisees, the devil. In John 8 we get a glimpse of who these Jinn are. They are men who aspire to turn the sons of Adam away from Gods path. Maybe our boss is a Jinn.
"Then I will come to them from between their hands, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left..."
How? At this point he has no 'descendants'. How can 'he' do this to all of humankind simultaneously?Good point. Perhaps Iblis is referring to what his offspring will do after he is banished to the earth.
Al-Ard is NOT the earth. It's the land. Try fitting the earth into 17103 and see how that goes. Also, if they were in 'heaven', Satan wouldn't promise them immortality (720)
For Habata, look at 261. Is Moses telling his people to go down to some place off the earth?!Al-Ard CAN be translated as The Earth. But like many words it can refer to other things as well. The same goes for Habata. Look at the definition I posted of that word in my previous post.
The jinns are definitely seperate from the malikah, because there are good among them (chapter 72).
I completely agree with you here. Jinn are a separate creation from Malikah. However if you look at my previous posts you will see that both Jinn and Malikah have free will because this is a part of the roh, not the nafs or ego. This also proves that not all Malikah mentioned in Al Quran are referring to natural forces.
Peace brother
-
In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.
Peace be with you.I met someone who served a jinn just now. It was a devil jinn, on the IMVU chat line. It wore almost indentical clothing to me (my avatar), and behaved offensively.
It just reminds me of so many things I like about Islam.Peace be with you.
-
Salaam,
Here i would say that the Jinn we serve are men. This is because they look just like us. Jesus clearly shows a distinction between his ancestral lineage, Adam, and the Pharisees, the devil. In John 8 we get a glimpse of who these Jinn are. They are men who aspire to turn the sons of Adam away from Gods path. Maybe our boss is a Jinn.
Good point. Perhaps Iblis is referring to what his offspring will do after he is banished to the earth.
Al-Ard CAN be translated as The Earth. But like many words it can refer to other things as well. The same goes for Habata. Look at the definition I posted of that word in my previous post.
I completely agree with you here. Jinn are a separate creation from Malikah. However if you look at my previous posts you will see that both Jinn and Malikah have free will because this is a part of the roh, not the nafs or ego. This also proves that not all Malikah mentioned in Al Quran are referring to natural forces.
Peace brother
Salaam brother,
Jesus clearly shows a distinction between his ancestral lineage, Adam, and the Pharisees, the devil. In John 8 we get a glimpse of who these Jinn are. They are men who aspire to turn the sons of Adam away from Gods path.
How do you know this? If we are going to use the bible as a source, why shouldn't we use the hadeeth of muhammad? It's the same thing. I see this as picking and choosing.
But your view on jinns is interesting.
Al-Ard CAN be translated as The Earth. But like many words it can refer to other things as well. The same goes for Habata. Look at the definition I posted of that word in my previous post.
Right, I misspoke. Al ard can be translated as the earth. I meant to say the land is more appropriate, because it can fit in most if not all places. Also, yes habata can be translated as both.
However if you look at my previous posts you will see that both Jinn and Malikah have free will because this is a part of the roh, not the nafs or ego. This also proves that not all Malikah mentioned in Al Quran are referring to natural forces.
Do you mind linking me the evidence? Thanks.
This also proves that not all Malikah mentioned in Al Quran are referring to natural forces.
Why not?
peace