This man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell are real
-
Peace "tay",
Peace humandesign,
A good effort, but I'm afraid anything outside the realm of science is paranormal, supernatural, hallucination, etc., to JonnyK and those he admires. I guess we're just machines that think we're something more.
Peace,
TayJK- You hit the nail on the head with this statement. We have evolved to a point where we make all kinds of ridiculous and deluded claims at certain times especially under huge stress or exhaustion as happened with Michael Shermer when he though after a long bicycle ride that hes been abducted by Aliens. I repeat for anything which has not been proven through proper controlled conditions one should not delve into such and waste time UNTIL ofcourse one is ready to offer proof. If proof to the contrary already exists then such pursuit would be even worse. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "tay",
Peace Jonny,
The first part of your post is repetitive and I've addressed it in detail, and in multiple ways.
JK- I believe i did the same.
You stated
What part of my post is wishful thinking?
Your admiration of intellectuals? You've openly admitted this.
The qur'an assuring us that we know very little? It's in the book and you already agree in bold above.JK- The part where you claim that we have an external soul which controls our brain is wishful thinking and theres evidence to the contrary as ive mentioned many MANY times. As for us knowing very little ABOUT THE UNIVERSE this is very clear. Dark energy is one example. It is not yet understood properly. Abiogenesis also still lacks quite a few details though the findings of RNA solved the puzzle to a great extent.
We can't claim one way or the other. How can I make it any more clear? If someone experiences something that is beyond what we can explain through science, then we shouldn't bother re-shaping it into something that can be explained. That's what you keep doing.
JK- In case of NDEs or OBEs being real, in the ssense that they allow one to tap into another dimension from which certain other humans too could derive similar info shoudl they tap into the same, there exists evidence to the contrary and that is that whilst one experiences such the same patterns of neuro firings in the same audio/visual regions can be seen as if they were actually shown similar things which they claqimed to have seen during such experiecnes. This should be evidence enough. Now there is always a tiny probability that evn this whole world is a matix controlled by another universe by aliens. But can we all agree that such an assumption is nonsense? I think we can.
Well, if it exists, then it's there for a reason. It's to engage our spiritual side. People that have experienced it understand when others express something similar. It's the one's who have not experienced it that are creating all the fuss.
Peace,
TayJK- The human brain does release similar hormones and triggers simlar experiences under extreme stress such as NDEs. Scienstists already know this and theres nothing spiritual about this except in a metaphorical sense. Didnt i show you the clp where scientists ran the NDE test on themselves. They expericend the very same as would anyone else with the difference that he wouldnt make the assumption of being in some spiritual world because HES ACTUALLY ONE STEP AHEAD i.e. HE KNOWS THE CAUS. GOD Bless!
-
Peace all
Quote from HD
Fadhli - In Judaism and Christianity the development of knowledge in the unknown is the basic symbol of our seperation from God - this is the symbol of the eating of the Apple of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The Quran says to take seriously the messages of previous scripture......do you beleive that the Quran has authorised for what you have started practicing??Are you saying that "eating" the knowledge in the unknown is forbidden? What science and religion has been doing now to understand the knowledge is not "eating" the knowledge of the unknown? Since Adam we have been blessed (cursed?) with this desire to understand things, to seek the knowledge. No doubt about it. Even Quran says to verify it personally. So what i'm doing is to verify it myself. If i recall correctly, Christians sometime ago believes that earth is flat. So to believe that earth is revolving around the sun is blasphemy because Bible says earth is flat and the sun is revolving around the earth. Are you gonna be like this? Repeating history that has taught us? Quran also says it SUPERCEDES the previous scriptures. Which one do you choose? What i practiced is just techniques. It's not ritual and obviously not polytheism. I take it like learning how to ride a bicycle, or driving a car. Just need to get used to it.
What are His signs? ? the miracles of nature in themselves show the possibility of all things ? they all form part of the natural phenomena.
Surah 45 Al Jathiyah V3-11 Verily in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who beleive. And in the creation of yourselves and the fact that animals are scattered are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of Night and Day and the fact that Allah sends down sustencance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after it's death and in the change of the winds - are signs for those that are wise..I assume you define nature as everything that is on earth that is not in our control. Is that it? What about space? is that nature to you? What if this another dimension is the natural phenomena too? If this is nature too, I think i should go and to understand it. Just like i understand the creation of night and day, the winds, the trees and animals, the space, the stars, etc. Unless you want to draw an invisible line about nature to yourself, it's fine by me.
Only those that remain firm on the path of guidance form God can expect to be guided with God?s truth as opposed to being guided to all forms of deviances
Surah46 Al Ahqaf V13 Verily those who say ?Our Lord is Allah,? and remain firm (on that path) ? on them shall be no fear, nor shall they greive.Like Quran said, I want to remain firm on the path that has been given to me. I won't fear or be grieve to face this path.
To hear the signs ? you need to engage not just the intellect but also you need to not reject what you hear, not reject what you see and not reject what you feel through your heart
Surah46 Al Ahqaf V26?And We had endowed them with (faculties of) hearing, seeing, heart and intellect but of no profit to them were their (faculties of) hearing, seeing, heart and intellect when they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and they were encircled by that which they used to mock at!Are you rejecting and mocking His sign? I want to see and be thankful to His signs. And to be equal in measure, i have to understand it. From this struggle (maybe it's bad, maybe it's good i don't know) i am confident that i will gain the wisdom from it.
Like we've discussed before, i don't know what you had faced that made you think that it's morally wrong or not our human nature to do this. I also don't know what i'm saying or doing is gonna eat me back or not. But what i know is that this feeling of wanting to go there is very high. And the voice in my heart is also supporting me and guiding me to go there. If this is what i should do, i'll do it. I don't want to be scared of what other people told me not to. Maybe you've had enough experiences on that part, then good for you. But that doesn't justify that you are correct.
I hope i'm not mocking anybody or being arrogant. I just felt like i had to do this. And i have made up my mind to face my inner fear.
I remember a verse in Quran about trying to penetrate the heaven. And God says penetrate it if you will but it will not be that easy. There will be trajectories that will be fired if one attempts to pass through it.
Remember what i said about consensus environment? The author said when journeying inside, there will be at some point where we will see a wall that can't be crossed. It kinda like protected. I think this is what God wants to say. With Quran as guide, maybe we can understand more about this unseen.
Peace handshake
-
Peace JK
Peace "fadhli" and "humandesign",
You spend too much time looking for the paranormal instead of livng in the actual real world which GOD has created. The unseen parts are RIGHT HERE in our world. No need to try and venture off into fantasy land. There are so many things still to investiaget on our own planet let alone the universe. Thats what the Quran asks us to contemplate on. GOD Bless!How much time is too much time? For me i just practice this OBE thing while i sleep (just started for 2 days). Not much time is wasted. Other than that i just live like usual, working reading, surfing, eating, salat etc. It doesn't effect my sleep either. It's the other way around, i felt more energized and positive. Nothing significant changes happen other than realizing there's more inside the unseen. It's not that that "time consuming" IMHO. And i think it's worth it considering many people have been wasting time searching for answers that they are not sure of.
1031 By time.
1032 The human is indeed in loss.
1033 Except those who believe, and do good works, and support one another with the truth, and support one another with perseverance.Edit
Found the verse, here it is
5531 We will call you to account, both of you beings.
5532 So which of your Lord's favors will you deny?
5533 O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without might.
5534 So which of your Lord's favors will you deny?
5535 He sends against both of you projectiles of fire, and of copper; so you will not succeed.And i want to add, to succeed in this journey is challenging. Depends on what your mind interpret as how much challenging is challenging. You have to be very positive, patient, open minded and believes that it's there. Just like Quran had taught us.
-
Fadhli - with regards to penetrating the the outer limits of the heavens (it is not talking about the heavens simply but is talking about going beyond it).
I came accross that exact verse about two days ago and it did make me ponder about going to the unknown. Then I came accross a verse that said we will never be able to know what is beyond the heavens and earth. This is clearly marked somewhere I will try to find it again. This then makes understanding about whta is meant by tryingt openetrate the outer heavens
But you may be wanting to merely go in to space - then if people want to go in to space - of course they are doing so already - but think about the risks - of bumping in to some alien speicies wanting to take over earth and wipe out humanity or in their trying to us to serve them instead. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I know - that would appear far stretched in our small minds - but it illustrates that what I mean by the unknown - the risk of the unknown.
And secondly it is not the highest use of ourselves - such knowledge will not stand us better in the sight of God - only doing good works is what is asked for again and again in the Quran - it is what is stressed the most. Think about it - if you had a choice between spending your resources on going in to space OR eliminating all starvation in the world which would you give priority?
I know what I think would be best in the sight of God.
I personally don't engage with the educational system that tells anyone what is what - because that is all man-made conjecture. Therefore there is no need for me to invesitgate to refute any established laws as to whether the world is flat/round or how atoms work - because I am just living by what I am seeing and feeling and comprehending for myself - not based on what others will have told me by resercing and trying to understand via theri limited brains from God's intelligence. And that what I am living by and seeing and hearing is nature for me - it does not fall in to any definition or hold boundaries - so yes your third world reality also consitute part of nature - as they are part of God's creation.
But whether the world is flat or round makes not difference to my goal of helping people and living my life in the most practical and moral way.
Fadhli - I went along that path that you have taken - I was shaken with fear and feelings of being lost - I have taken THOSE as SIGNS to mean that I should not go there and I am extremely thankful to God for putting me back on the right path (remember I was away from this Quranic path)- how thereby am I exactly mocking HIS SIGNs rather than following what God wishes for me???
Again I fear that you did not start this thread with a purity and opennes of your mind for sincere investigation but to support your need to face and chase entertainment.
-
Just going through finding some verses concerning the unseen.
This one is interesting
2765 Say "None in the heavens or the Earth know the unseen except God. And they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."
See that Heaven or Earth? why two? Without this clue those who'd venture in the heavens (maybe heaven is the other dimension they are talking about) might mistaken that it is God (some say God is the universe). Whereas
2764 The One who initiates the creation then He returns it, and He provides for you from the sky and the land. Is there a god with God? Say "Bring your proof if you are being truthful."
Only the One knows about the hereafter.
2766 No, they have no knowledge of the Hereafter. No, they are in doubt regarding it. No, they are blind to it.
Even those who are in the heavens don't know about the hereafter. Maybe the heaven is the other (multiple) dimensions that only OBEers or the deceased can access? While the unseen, only God knows it? Hmm maybe i should be careful with my words about the unseen.
If this is true, the unseen is not what our eyes can see. The unseen is something that we cannot know?
Here's some more
7226 The knower of the unseen, He does not reveal His knowledge to anyone.
7227 Except to whom He has accepted as a messenger, then He reveals from the past and the future.
7228 So that He knows that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.What kind of messenger is messenger? According to those who had ventured in, we can also see the past and future. Only by wishing to know it. I cannot prove this. But an author Albert taylor did tried to seek his future while OBE. It did happened but he found that he cannot change his future. There's also a lot of predictions by the so called psychics about our future. See for yourselves. I'm not telling you to believe. But just observe. Maybe we can learn something.
Peace
-
......And they only guess and follow conjecture.
-
Peace HD ;D eat
But you may be wanting to merely go in to space - then if people want to go in to space - of course they are doing so already - but think about the risks - of bumping in to some alien speicies wanting to take over earth and wipe out humanity or in their trying to us to serve them instead. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin I know - that would appear far stretched in our small minds - but it illustrates that what I mean by the unknown - the risk of the unknown.
I sense fear in you jedi ;D > voodoo. What are you afraid of? Death? Earth's doom by the aliens? Who's more powerful? God or them? You know only to God that we request help right. But why fear those aliens? Why fear venturing to the unknown? What's the worst case it can do? sickness? confusion? haunted? death? And yes i believe it is a SIGN for you. It brought you to God. It brought you here. And I'm glad you thankful for that. I'm thankful too ;D. If not because of you how can i write this comments?
......And they only guess and follow conjecture.
So you are not guessing? You guess heaven is space. What if heaven in Quran is LITERALLY heaven? I used to guessed that heaven is space. But my guess now it is not. It's not from conjecture. It's from my logical thought. What about them? I assume you guess they are guessing and follow conjecture.
Fadhli - I went along that path that you have taken - I was shaken with fear and feelings of being lost - I have taken THOSE as SIGNS to mean that I should not go there and I am extremely thankful to God for putting me back on the right path (remember I was away from this Quranic path)- how thereby am I exactly mocking HIS SIGNs rather than following what God wishes for me???
I'm sorry I don't know what you had faced. This guy wrote in his book about his journey. Have you faced something like this? Maybe we can learn something from this.
As I slate down to the darkness, I see a large, slowly moving form. It appears to be headed towards me. As it comes closer, I see the outline of a huge hairy creature, a giant sloth, standing nine feet high; it has a bear's head and the face of a dog. My entire being is paralyzed with fear. I desperately want ot run, but I hold my position. Slowly, the creature climbs the stairs and wraps its huge hairy arms around my neck and body. All I can think is, This thing can snap my neck in a heartbeat.
Suddenly the creature gives me a warm hug and licks my face like a dog. All my fear dissipates as I realize that this ugly creature is powerless to harm me. An intense feeling of empowerment and joy explodes through me; I feel completely free from my fear and limits. The creature looks directly into my eyes, smiles and disappears. A surge of energy flows through me as I recognize a new form of freedom. An absolute freedom from fear.
I do not think this is entirely an entertainment nor a show off (there is a feeling of excitement though ;D). It can be a test to face our fear. It can be a task to spread the message to help humans. It could be our own soul development process. It could be one of our purpose of life. It could increase our understanding of the universe. And it could increase our awareness towards our Creator.
And doing good is a must. It cleanses our heart. Charities, helping others, respecting elders and parents etc. I always felt joyed when i managed to help others in anything especially my parents. I believe it is one of the things that increase my positive thoughts. Imagine if someone requires our help and we says no. What would we feel? Don't care? Don't feel nothing? feel guilty? What kind of good is good? we must judge ourselves. For example, giving money to the poor is one of the good thing to do right? But money itself is just a paper. Would God approve it? But to us it is valuable. And that feeling of giving something valuable to us is the thing that we have to seek. It releases the attachment towards that item that we value. The worldly desire that we value. I think that is one of the good thing about doing good. It's a test whether we surrender or not to the lust for worldly desires why not release it? All in all it's for our own benefit and for us to experience it.
Even our lives. It's valuable to us right? would you give it to God if somehow he requested it? What would you do? (refer to Abraham and his son story). If you face this kind of thing (anything out of ordinary). Would you run away? Or would you face it? Would you die because of it? even if you die, Would it really matter? In the end we still return to our Creator. I'm not telling you to become suicidal like stabbing yourselves. But think about it. There is a difference between purposely dying because you can't stand living and dying for the cause of God or struggling to achieve something for your own purpose.
I guess each one of us is given a different path. One go this way, the other go that way. Maybe some would see that what others experienced is right/wrong or good/bad. I think that path is maybe designed by the Lord of the unseen to them. It's because they're inspired to choose that path. Like those poor people. Try to feel what they think. I don't think we can. And those who are rich? Yeah a lot of them wrote books about it. Maybe some is sincere, maybe some is just aiming for the money and fame. We do not know. The point is, rich or poor good people bad people, everyone had chose the path that had been given to them. Still at the end it will lead to only one ending. DEATH. > pr tempt So why fear it? yay peace
Peace handshake
-
I agree to a certain extent with Fadhli on this as I've experienced OBE before shifting into the real time world and astral world. This obviously is a personal experience and not proof of OBE.
I personally think being "too scientific" and the opposite end I guess you can call it "spiritualist" will lead you to arrogance. I believe there's a balance with things as God has created things in pairs so I believe its all about balancing both ends of these.
To all rationalists/scientists what would a scientist have had called Muhammed when he was claiming messengership or claiming to OBE/astral project on layla tul isra?
The Qur'an, chapter 17 (Al-Isra), verse 1 ? Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).?
A deluded hallucinated man or a liar, bear in mind he was called this?? But of course we know he OBE/astral projected to heaven from quranic point of view but a non quranic believer or a scientist will say he imagined this. I'm not saying shun science all together but there's no difference in my opinion of someone who's holding onto science/logic to explain everything and someone who rejects science/logic all together.
PEACE
-
Thx 2pacs
I personally think being "too scientific" and the opposite end I guess you can call it "spiritualist" will lead you to arrogance. I believe there's a balance with things as God has created things in pairs so I believe its all about balancing both ends of these.
Yes i agree with you on balance. Equal measure. But for now i can't OBE yet (still struggling). So i can't scientifically observe it or experiment it yet. So i can only just theorize it based on others experiences (with hopes that it would sparks other people interests). And spiritually believes from it's wisdom that.. uh it is spiritual. Dunno what spiritualist do. ;D
And the journey of the night. It's like slapping the face with OBE/AP. ;D
I'm imagining the free-minders OBEing together. Searching and sharing their experiences in this forum because we have Quranic background. And verify the past and God's creation. I believe everyone can OBE. It's just the matter of wanting it or not.
Peaces handshake
-
Fadhli - you are really revved up and it si easy to see how you have changed since our former - more polite conversations.
I'd be weeary of what you are downloading on to your self when you are OBE ing away like you are!
I would also like to thankyou for the belly ache of laughter you have just made me have. You are very cute indeed!!!
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl yay yay rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl yay yay yay
On a seious note
What excatly I faced does not matter as much as the lessons I learnt.
I don't think you have understood the Quran but you are conjecturing away on it.
At the time of Abraham - many sons were sacrificed to different Gods etc (as per understanding of archeological evidence)- if Abraham saw that in a dream - in so far as the nature of dreaming that I have managed to expereince and understand for myself how they work - I would say that Abraham either misinterpreted the dream or it was a dream from satan. When I say misinterpreted I mean usually there is a contradiction played out in the dream to get the dreamer to understand the discrepancy. It is more likely that Abraham did not recall the 2nd part of the dream that would have been trying to message to him not to partake in such an activity.
I have understood that God talks about 7 heavens in the Quran - the heaven is a canopy above the earth. What we understand as heaven may or may not be part of our eventual abode - but for now as far as I am concerned the specific details of it don't matter to me as I am trying to live my life here on earth.. Again it shows how you are so desparate to understand things that are so beyond.
-
I personally don't believe when you sleep you goto heaven i.e the final abode after this life. But I personally do believe it is another dimension that is part of Gods creation. Also ponder on this verse too
Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and that, which has not died in its sleep; He withholds that against which He has decreed death, but releases the other till a stated term (al-Zumar 39 42)
So in regards to the guy returning from death that is impossible as God says in the Quran he holds the soul and they cannot come back from death. So what this guy experienced was another dimension from an OBE and it was a wahi from God to him on a personal level. Scientists can explain how and what happened but not why or the purpose behind it.
PEACE
-
Lol really? i've changed? well maybe a bit. But i still like you. ;D ;D ;D ;D
You're welcome. It's nice if i could make you laugh. hehe ;D
Ok Back to business.
About the Abraham, did i mentioned dream at that paragraph? Nope. Ok it's a bit out of topic on that paragraph. I'm just telling my understanding about the value of life and facing the fear of anything out of ordinary and what the story of Abraham impacts on this. Not how Abraham got that command to sacrifice his son (i.e by dream or whatever). I apologize for the out of topic paragraph. P
but for now as far as I am concerned the specific details of it don't matter to me as I am trying to live my life here on earth..
May God Bless you with your normal life on earth my dear HD ) ) )
Again it shows how you are so desparate to understand things that are so beyond
Am i looked desperate? No, I think excited is the word (maybe too excited P). And i like to share my thoughts as much as possible. Just to prepare myself and give myself experiences (experience being flamed by you guys? P P ;D ;D).
Dear 2Pac,
I personally don't believe when you sleep you goto heaven i.e the final abode after this life. But I personally do believe it is another dimension that is part of Gods creation.
I agree with you on this too. Like commented previously. That is a (so called) consensus realm that is protected. Don't know how it could be penetrated. So in sleep maybe you can't just go inside it. Maybe heaven is all that dimension. Maybe the consensus realm is the Jannah(the park)?
All in all it might be a personal wahi or maybe it's a different world i don't know.
Peace out handshake
-
2Pac - Notts - thankyou so much ofr that verse for i see how it supports me so much in my reasoning.
Fadhli Note how in the verse
The Qur'an, chapter 17 (Al-Isra), verse 1 ? Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).?
It indicates he was taken by God's choice - not that he was trying to find something out there for himself. He was instead taken by it and also note how he was specicly blessed for this downloading business of the Quran - otherwise it would not be safe for him to travel and do OBE... the prophet's precincts were blessed specificly for this to happen
And secondly some people do OBE without wanting to - as in my case - I was too scared to close my eyes even because thats when my third eye would start vibrating even though wasn't asleep. My releif came instantly when I consciously turned to God alone and in every way quit with the path of new ageist (yet non-OBE) path that I was on. Since then I feel I am also a better person - restored to my own natural morality - the ways that I was inclined before and am easily able to see the error of nyt behaviours with others which I was unable to see before. My health is also so much better. Praise be to God alone.
I never doubted the diviinity of the Quran coming through via such a means as the OBE though.....just that I do not see it prescribed in the Quran for people to follow as a means to enlightenment. Indeed I do not think it safe for when it has not been authorised by God in the Quran and as would appear a person has not been divinely blessed/chosen to do so already.
I know the Quran talks of meditation throughout the night and specificly addresses 'the cloaked one' to do this - but I think it may be in reference to the prophet being reqested to do that in order to download the Quran.
-
Just wanna add some pic on William Buhlmann theory on this this multidimension universe
http//www.astralinfo.org/images/multidimensioncoloreduniversepagephoto.jpg
It indicates he was taken by God's choice - not that he was trying to find something out there for himself. He was instead taken by it and also note how he was specicly blessed for this downloading business of the Quran - otherwise it would not be safe for him to travel and do OBE... the prophet's precincts were blessed specificly for this to happen
I dunno HD. I kinda disagree with the idea of prophets are specially blessed and we are not. I think all of us are equal Humans. Prophets are prophets. An example of servant of God. An example of what a human that is blessed by God (up to that extend) can do.
Peace gtg. handshake
-
Fadhli - you said
Even our lives. It's valuable to us right? would you give it to God if somehow he requested it? What would you do? (refer to Abraham and his son story). If you face this kind of thing (anything out of ordinary). Would you run away? Or would you face it? Would you die because of it? even if you die, Would it really matter? In the end we still return to our Creator. I'm not telling you to become suicidal like stabbing yourselves. But think about it. There is a difference between purposely dying because you can't stand living and dying for the cause of God or struggling to achieve something for your own purpose.
What I understood by your reference to Abraham is that if I were placed with fear of my life would I give in to it for the sake of God or would I run away from it because I valued my life over submitting to God's plan?
I thought you were suggesting that I feared for my life. This is why I think you try to mention about Abraham - because you were thinking that - look at him - he was prepared to give up his life for God - but I think you were missing the point of the story which was not to do stupid things like sacrificing our lives without there being a dire earthly need for it. And I spoke about the dream to try to enlighten you abtou the context so that you may understand how Abraham was wrong in trying to sacrifice his son and that's the real moral of the story.
So in that contaext it woudl be wrong to sacrifice your life for the unknown - when you have not identified the result it will definitely bring.
-
Fadhli - you both misquote me and the Quran- The prophet was blessed for the act of performing his OBE's/his downloads. The verse specificly indicates this.
whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs
I have no idea whether you have been blessed for such purposes - but my nearest feeling is that you have not been blessed and it is therefore dangerous.
Passing on the message in the form of truths is the cability of all - according to their aptitude - I don't disagree with that.
-
2Pac - Notts - thankyou so much ofr that verse for i see how it supports me so much in my reasoning.
Your welcome. By the way you male or female?
It indicates he was taken by God's choice - not that he was trying to find something out there for himself. He was instead taken by it and also note how he was specicly blessed for this downloading business of the Quran - otherwise it would not be safe for him to travel and do OBE... the prophet's precincts were blessed specificly for this to happen
I disagree with this im afraid. Note how God says He took his SERVANT and not MESSENGER/PROPHET. This emphasises from God in my opinion it's not just exclusive to Prophets/Messengers but any of his servants or even non servants as there isn't a verse or implication that only servants can OBE.
Here's more verses
And He it is Who takes your souls at night (in sleep), and He knows what you acquire in the day{660}
And one of His signs is your sleeping and your seeking of His grace by night and (by) day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who would hear. {3023}
Notice how God says one of the signs is sleeping. How is it a sign?God says nature is a sign too...why?Because it is in order and has laws and purposes and has clues to show an amazing creator behind it. Am I exaggerating by saying sleep has a purpose other than biological reasons? If we didn't have dreams then I wouldn't have a point but we do have dreams and OBE's so there is a purpose behind it all.
PEACE
-
Fadhli,
I was just looking for more info about the potential dangers of OOBE and came across the following - funnily it appears to say what I have been trying to say to you too. I know it speaks form a Biblic stance with references to Bible - but I think the smilarities in terms of the message is quite uncanny
Taken from http//www.allabouttheoccult.org/out-of-body-experience.htm
(I have amlgamated information from it's various pages below)
Out of Body Experience - What is it?
An "out of body experience" (OBE) can be defined as the process of transiently separating the consciousness (spirit) from the physical body, such that the person and world are observed from outside of the body. OBE's are also known as astral projections. There are several ways people perceive an out of body experience, including dreams, daydreams, and memories. People have reported having out of body experiences while under the influence of drugs or induced by some sort of trauma, as well as near death experiences. Astral projection is taught through books, the internet, and religious techniques. An out of body experience is said to be clearer than a dream or daydream. Those who practice astral projections claim that their senses are enhanced, allowing them to see and feel with more clarity and without physical constraint. The origins of out of body experiences are unknown. However, OBE's have been practiced for many years in several different cultures. The New Age Movement is widely known for promoting and using this practice.Out of Body Experience - Why Do People Seek It?
Out of body experiences are sought after by those who desire knowledge or power in the spiritual realm, endeavor to help people, are curious, or want to be entertained. In some cases, people actually seek OBE's to cause harm to others. For the most part, an out of body experience is desired for a spiritual reason, such as reaching a higher level of consciousness or enlightenment.Out of Body Experience - What Does the Bible Teach Us?
According to some, out of body experiences are said to be justified in the Bible, citing several scriptures. Unfortunately, those interpretations have been taken out of context or they fail to address the culture of that time. In the Bible, an out of body experience is regarded as an occult practice. The greatest evidence against OBE is that God's people didn't "perform" them. In all of the scriptures mentioning "in the spirit" or "caught up in the spirit," the people didn't seek to have an out of body experience. Instead, God came to specific people, revealing specific things for a specific purpose. These events occurred to glorify God and reveal His love for His people. The people did not seek to have an out of body experience for personal gain or to get clarity about the world or God.Out of Body Experience - Is There Potential Harm?
People may argue that there's no harm in having an out of body experience. However, in the Bible, it's clear that we are not to participate in occult practices. Out of the body experiences were not part of the teachings of God. Out of body experiences could be defined as divination, sorcery, interpreting of omens, engaging in witchcraft, or casting spells. Those who perform OBE may be referred to as mediums or spiritists. Overall, these practices are called detestable in the eyes of God (Deuteronomy 189-11, Galatians 519-26, and 2 Chronicles 336). As a result, there could also be emotional, physical, mental, and/or spiritual harm associated with OBE practices. Since OBE is not condoned by God, it would lead us to believe that there is another force behind these phenomena. While having an out of body experience, one should keep in mind that we are to be prepared for action, self-controlled, set on the hope given to us, obedient, and not conform to our evil desires (1 Peter 113). Can this happen if we separate ourselves from our body?Christian out of body experiences - Is it possible?
It's not always easy to make a clear distinction between what is a Christian thing to do or not do with our lives. Definitely there are some issues that are on one side or the other and then, as in this case, there are those that are less easily categorized. Out of body experiences certainly exist and none can deny the blatant fact of such possibilities; the only question is whether or not this is one of those activities that Christians should not participate in.
As humans, it is our natural inclination to know more than we do and to search beyond our limits for that attractive knowledge and information. The earliest example of this instinct is documented in the Bible, in Genesis 34-6 "'You will not surely die,' the serpent said to the woman. 'For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.' When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."Eve had that inner desire to become more familiar with things otherwise unfamiliar to her and to delve into reaches deeper than her normal expanse of wisdom. God had given her all she needed and yet she was confident that her curiosity was worth pursuing. And as the rest of the verses conclude, bad things followed when Eve and Adam succumbed to the serpent's temptations.
Out of body experiences can be compared to the fruit in the garden. They promise a good time, an air of experience and knowledge, a sense of deeper accomplishment, arrival, contentment, and solace. An interesting note to make is the fact that Eve would not have reached the level of understanding and knowledge without the enticements of the devil. The same is true with such things as out of body experiences because it is necessary to realize that the hunger and thirst for more eye-opening experiences stem from the devil as well.
The reason for this is as follows. God wants to protect us and give us only what we need. He has promised in the Bible to provide everything we ever need-like Eve and Adam had all they truly needed. Anything that we seek for is a sign that we are striving for what He does not deem necessary in our lives. If it were necessary, he would have given it to us already. An out of body experience is only Satan's lie to us that there is something else in life we need, but that God has failed to supply us with it. We can honestly believe that God never changes. He has promised "And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 419). We will quickly discern the temptation as a lie and turn from it.
God never meant for us to enter into other realms or become familiar with the spirit world connected to out of body experiences. He gave us minds to study His words and use logic in pursuing His will for our lives; to ignore such privileges and to reach in other directions for knowledge and feelings and insights we were never meant to take hold of is, in essence, to reach for the forbidden fruit. And that, my friend, is definitely not a Christian action!