Are You a True Moslem
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And if anyone can't understand it they can come to you to explain it.
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His entire argument is demolished in 632. Those taking such a sahadah shelter behind it and expect their misdeeds to be wiped clean.
Dear Brother
I never said that the shadah is enough, but in order to believe that the Quran is the words of God, we have to testify that the prophet Mohamed is God Messenger simply because he the one who wrote the Quran for us.
Second, if one would follow the Quran guidance, he or she will automatically fulfills the 5 pillar of Islam and adds his believe in the other commandments that exist in the Quran, the Bible, and the Old Testament. As far as the hadiths, I only follow what agrees with the Quran and reject the ones that do not agree. I believe that God stated in his book what are Halal, Haram, his limits (Hodood), his attributes, and the descriptions of all the un-seen (the Gib) (e.g., the Judgment Day descriptions, the Paradise, The Hellfire, prophets in the past, Angels Discriptions, some of his names).
If any one thinks that my way of believe is wrong, please show me the right way based on evidence from my God Words.
God Bless all of you. sun -
Dear brother
371 "O people of the Scripture, why do you dress the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"
242 And do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor keep the truth secret while you know.
682 Those who believe and do not dress their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided.Something may agree with the Quran but still be falsehood. There is no way to be sure with hadith. I personally just read the Quran and ignore everything else.
God Bless you too
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Dear brother
371 "O people of the Scripture, why do you dress the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"
242 And do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor keep the truth secret while you know.
682 Those who believe and do not dress their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided.Something may agree with the Quran but still be falsehood. There is no way to be sure with hadith. I personally just read the Quran and ignore everything else.
God Bless you too
Yes, you can do that if you not sure; but I came to my believes through not ignoring the hadith, but by listing and confronting the misleading ones. After all, we cannot disown our people and leave them in dark, but we shall lead them to the light of Quran when they come cross a misleading hadith.
Thanks -
Yes, you can do that if you not sure; but I came to my believes through not ignoring the hadith, but by listing and confronting the misleading ones. After all, we cannot disown our people and leave them in dark, but we shall lead them to the light of Quran when they come cross a misleading hadith.
ThanksI agree we cannot disown and leave them in the dark, all I am saying is we must be very careful with what we say is part of our deenl.
I wish the majority of people followed the light of the Quran. But in reality not many people read the Quran.
Just consider verses like this
2925 And he said "You have taken idols besides God in order to preserve some friendship among you in this worldly life. But then, on the Day of Resurrection, you will disown one another, and curse one another. Your destiny is Hell, and you will have no victors."1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
So we cannot uphold anything false even if our family and friends all believe it.
Please show me verses if you think otherwise.
God Bless.
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I agree we cannot disown and leave them in the dark, all I am saying is we must be very careful with what we say is part of our deenl.
I wish the majority of people followed the light of the Quran. But in reality not many people read the Quran.
Just consider verses like this
2925 And he said "You have taken idols besides God in order to preserve some friendship among you in this worldly life. But then, on the Day of Resurrection, you will disown one another, and curse one another. Your destiny is Hell, and you will have no victors."1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
So we cannot uphold anything false even if our family and friends all believe it.
Please show me verses if you think otherwise.
God Bless.
There are many verses in the Quran, where God was ordering the Prophets and the messengers to not abandon there People; I think we all know the story of "Younes", when he abandon his people. We do not need to uphold or believe in any false hadit, but we need to confront them with wisdom. In doing so, you need to be with your people and be very patient.
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There are many verses in the Quran, where God was ordering the Prophets and the messengers to not abandon there People; I think we all know the story of "Younes", when he abandon his people. We do not need to uphold or believe in any false hadit, but we need to confront them with wisdom. In doing so, you need to be with your people and be very patient.
Yes you reminded me of a verse that says we should warn the people. Thank you.
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Yes you reminded me of a verse that says we should warn the people. Thank you.
You welcome brother; but you have to get ready for getting hurt by some of them, either by words or physically. And that is the true Jehad that is rewarded by your Lord. And always remember the Verse that says
(٣ (٤ (٥ (٦
We know indeed the grief which their words do cause thee it is not thee they reject it is the Signs of Allah, which the wicked contemn. (6-33) Rejected were the Messegers before thee with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs until Our aid did reach them there is none that can alter the Words (and Decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those Messengers. (34) If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a Sign (what good?). If it were Allah's Will, He could gather them together unto true guidance so be not thou amongst those who are swayed by ignorance (and impatience)! (35) Those who listen (in truth) be sure, will accept as to the dead, Allah will raise them up then will they be turned unto Him. (36
sun
God Bless -
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Peace belalhammad,
Please provide proof from the qur'an that there are 5 pillars one needs to uphold to be considered a "true moslem".
In addition, please provide proof that those who do not follow these pillars are to be considered kafir.Peace,
TayDear Brother
There is nothing in the Quran indicates the 5 pillars to be the only conditions to be Moslem. If you read what I wrote you can note that part of the commandments in the Quran is to believe that prophet Mohamed is the Messenger of God, to Pray, pay Charity, Fasting, and Hij--these are the 5 pillar. But if you perform these 5 pillars and you disbelieve the other commandments, you are not a true Moslem (You believe in some of the book and Kaffer with some).
My argument is, when one of the Moslem scholar consider me a Kaffer because I reject hadiths that cancel out the Quran, I reply to him and say " you have a hadith says that if I perform the 5 pillars, I?m Moslem" -
Peace belalhammad,
Please provide proof from the qur'an that there are 5 pillars one needs to uphold to be considered a "true moslem".
In addition, please provide proof that those who do not follow these pillars are to be considered kafir.Peace,
TaySalam
There are the Verses(٦
How shall Allah guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that clear signs had come unto them? But Allah guides not a people unjust. (86-3) Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind. (87)(١
When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars. (63-1)In these two verses, we can note that the Shahada was required from the people who came to the prophet to accept Islam. Moreover, one can ask what is the different between Jews & Christian? The answer is, the Jews do not testify that Jesus is the Prophet of God, and therefore, they rejected the Bible. And the same goes when asking what is the different between Jews, Christian, and Moslem (True Moslem)? The answer is the Testifying ?The Shahada?.
God Bless
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Peace belelhammad,
There is nothing in the Quran indicates the 5 pillars to be the only conditions to be Moslem...My argument is, when one of the Moslem scholar consider me a Kaffer because I reject hadiths that cancel out the Quran, I reply to him and say " you have a hadith says that if I perform the 5 pillars, I?m Moslem"
Understood. Where I disagree is
part of the commandments in the Quran is to believe that prophet Mohamed is the Messenger of God, to Pray, pay Charity, Fasting, and Hij--these are the 5 pillar
as, you used 386-87 to make this an indictment on modern muslims as well.
These ayat speak of those who witnessed and thus believed as true the messenger of God, with clarity, yet went on to reject after having known the truth via firsthand experience. That defines a kafir.
In addition, this in no way makes belief in it incumbent upon muslims who do not fit the above criteria. If one was not witness, then one cannot bear witness. The shahada includes God alone.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace belelhammad,
Understood. Where I disagree is
as, you used 386-87 to make this an indictment on modern muslims as well.These ayat speak of those who witnessed and thus believed as true the messenger of God, with clarity, yet went on to reject after having known the truth via firsthand experience. That defines a kafir.
In addition, this in no way makes belief in it incumbent upon muslims who do not fit the above criteria. If one was not witness, then one cannot bear witness. The shahada includes God alone.
Peace,
TayDear Tay
As we all know, every thing we do is Halal for us except what God excluded in the Quran; thus, testifying that the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) is the prophet of God, as well as Jesus, Moses, Ibrhim... are the Prophets of God is not Haram, ?prohibited?, or something new that was invented in the religion.
My point is, if you and the group hold the same views regarding rejecting the Shahada, there will be very minimum chance to gather audiences from the Moslem World--they will reject you.
Shahada only for the new comers who did not accept the Quran before as the words of God, and for them to accept it, they have to accept the person whom was revealed to as the prophet of God.
I know that most of us suffered from many of the traditional Islamic teachings, but we cannot let our disliking make us reject every thing, including the right teachings.
May God Bless -
Peace belalhammad,
testifying that the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) is the prophet of God, as well as Jesus, Moses, Ibrhim... are the Prophets of God is not Haram
I did not say it was haram. Your implication is that it's part of the "shadada", ie, a pillar of islam which leads to the title of the thread Are you a true moslem.
If one wants to include Muhammad or Isa or any prophet or messenger, that's fine and dandy. However, the wording and implications of this thread and the context herein differ from what you've stated above.
Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying.
My point is, if you and the group hold the same views regarding rejecting the Shahada, there will be very minimum chance to gather audiences from the Moslem World--they will reject you.
Brother, this is not a group of like-minded individuals trying to gather anyone. There are plenty of common threads but by no means are they universal here. This forum is for the free individual study of the qur'an.
I know that most of us suffered from many of the traditional Islamic teachings, but we cannot let our disliking make us reject every thing, including the right teachings.
I agree. Thus, just because it doesn't suit your understanding, it should not be written off as someone's dislike. The prudent method is to provide the evidence via al-qur'an to back up one's statements since it is the criterion and the ultimate falsifier. What makes something a "right teaching" is whether or not it stands up as truth, not whether or not it has mass appeal.
Thus, the right teaching in this case would be to say if one wants to include a prophet in their testimony, it may not be haram - depending on the level of one's devotion to that concept in direct comparison to God. The wrong teaching, according to the qur'an, would be to say that inclusion of any prophet's name is necessary to make one a true muslim.
Peace,
Tay -
What makes something a "right teaching" is whether or not it stands up as truth, not whether or not it has mass appeal.
Peace belalhammad,
I did not say it was haram. Your implication is that it's part of the "shadada", ie, a pillar of islam which leads to the title of the thread Are you a true moslem.
If one wants to include Muhammad or Isa or any prophet or messenger, that's fine and dandy. However, the wording and implications of this thread and the context herein differ from what you've stated above.
Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying.
Brother, this is not a group of like-minded individuals trying to gather anyone. There are plenty of common threads but by no means are they universal here. This forum is for the free individual study of the qur'an.
I agree. Thus, just because it doesn't suit your understanding, it should not be written off as someone's dislike. The prudent method is to provide the evidence via al-qur'an to back up one's statements since it is the criterion and the ultimate falsifier. What makes something a "right teaching" is whether or not it stands up as truth, not whether or not it has mass appeal.
Thus, the right teaching in this case would be to say if one wants to include a prophet in their testimony, it may not be haram - depending on the level of one's devotion to that concept in direct comparison to God. The wrong teaching, according to the qur'an, would be to say that inclusion of any prophet's name is necessary to make one a true muslim.
Peace,
TayPeace Brother group
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Say ye "We believe, in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
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If you believe that the Quran, The Bible, and The Old Testament are the Words of God, and contain the True Guidance that God wants for us to follow; and you respect all prophets equally without making any difference between them;
What you can read from Old and New Testament are NOT the revelations given to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord.
They (those mentioned here) have not wrote the stories you have in Bible. In Bible you have stories writen sometimes a century after the real story took place and sometimes even thousands of years later. So stories in Bible are not revelations given to them.
Bible is as hadits.For example although to Jesus was given the Gospel, it is not in the New Testament. Instead we have stories written by others. And they wrote what they heard. They even didnt witness events happening.
See the beginning of Luke 1
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
As you see, its a hadit.And as in case of hadits, even people who eyewitness the events happening, they do not understand the true meaning of it.
For example
Luke 321-22 ...heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove...
Quran 349 Jesus"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird by Gods leavesee my point? ;D
Peace -
What you can read from Old and New Testament are NOT the revelations given to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord.
They (those mentioned here) have not wrote the stories you have in Bible. In Bible you have stories writen sometimes a century after the real story took place and sometimes even thousands of years later. So stories in Bible are not revelations given to them.
Bible is as hadits.For example although to Jesus was given the Gospel, it is not in the New Testament. Instead we have stories written by others. And they wrote what they heard. They even didnt witness events happening.
See the beginning of Luke 1
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
As you see, its a hadit.And as in case of hadits, even people who eyewitness the events happening, they do not understand the true meaning of it.
For example
Luke 321-22 ...heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove...
Quran 349 Jesus"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird by Gods leavesee my point? ;D
PeaceDear Brother
I'm 105% sure that Original Bible & The Old Testament (The Ones that written in their original language) exist and intact from getting corrupted. After all, if God knew that they will be corrupted, he would have mention that in the Quran, but instead, he asked us to approach them and believe in them as they are the Truth from him. If you set your mind that there is no Good Bible & Old Testament, you not only disagreeing with the Quran, but will not approach the Bible & the Old Testament with the right attitude. The attitude that will make you analyze the meaning of the Words in more depth.Peace