Understanding "Shrik"

belH

Salam Belal,

All other sites that call themselves muslims are loaded with shirk, you know! Have you tried to warn them? Your warning would be truly needed there. So why are you on this mission here, on free minds? Do you see many, or any, people here who are hung on the so called hadith of Muhammad?

Taj
Indeed, there are many people in this set who are mislead by hadith, or by other new invention in the religion. Moreover, anybody in this set, including me, need a reminder. And the reminder is awarded by God.

Therefore give admonition in case the admonition profits (the hearer). (87-9) The admonition will be received by those who fear (Allah) (10) But it will be avoided by those most unfortunate ones. (11)

We need to remember how easy to fall in such Sin. For example, Code 19 has a new invention, which ?God taught ?Rashad Kalifa? that the Quran is protected by ?Code 19?. But when you read the Quran, you will not read about such thing. And the result, they are cancling out the last two verses in chapter 9.
Some times I encounter people in this set, including youself, who accused me with Shrik, when I said the Shahada, ?To testify that God is One, and Mohamed is a Prophet?, is required for the new people who accept the Quran. By saying that the Shahadda is Shrik, is no different from inventing a new Fatwa to God religion.
You told me, how can you testify that Mohamed is a Prophet if I did not see or witness him? My answer is, I can testify about many thing that I did not see or witness; I can testify that Jesus (PBUH) is a Prophet; I can testify that all humans will be questioned in the Judgment day. In other words, I can testify about the unseen, only if it is included in God?s book, simply because it is the Ultimate Truth.
Anyway, Taj, this post is a reminder for other people, including me, and not for the pros like yourself.
Peace peace

TAJ

Belal,

Taj

Some times I encounter people in this set, including youself, who accused me with Shrik, when I said the Shahada, ?To testify that God is One, and Mohamed is a Prophet?, is required for the new people who accept the Quran. By saying that the Shahadda is Shrik, is no different from inventing a new Fatwa to God religion.
You told me, how can you testify that Mohamed is a Prophet if I did not see or witness him? My answer is, I can testify about many thing that I did not see or witness; I can testify that Jesus (PBUH) is a Prophet; I can testify that all humans will be questioned in the Judgment day. In other words, I can testify about the unseen, only if it is included in God?s book, simply because it is the Ultimate Truth.

I never said that saying the shahada is shirk. I never wrote anything of what you mentioned here! Those are not my words. And I dare you to prove it. Bring, if you can, the post that proves what you claim!

This is what I wrote
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16691.30
Topic Are You a True Moslem
On page # 3
And I repeated it for you in more than one post but you still failed to read right!

If you consider the ancestors' word as sacred as God?s Word, this, for me, is nothing less than shirk.

Next time, try not to imagine/make up things.

belH

Belal,

I never said that saying the shahada is shirk. I never wrote anything of what you mentioned here! Those are not my words. And I dare you to prove it. Bring, if you can, the post that proves what you claim!

This is what I wrote
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16691.30
Topic Are You a True Moslem
On page # 3
And I repeated it for you in more than one post but you still failed to read right!

If you consider the ancestors' word as sacred as God?s Word, this, for me, is nothing less than shirk.

Next time, try not to imagine/make up things.

The following are what you wrote in my thread (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16691.0)
Start Quote
What has Muhammad got to do with the shahada? But if you insist to fortify your prayers with a third party, in whatever form i.e. the shahada, altering your prayers into a triangle of two mortals (you and Muhammad) and God, instead of a direct, pure and straight one line link (Ssirat mustaqeem) towards your Creator, then why stop at just Muhammad? Seriously! If you think adding more subjects will make your prayers straighter to God then why not crowd more than just Muhammad in your soulful, spiritual connection? Why not include all the messengers, those who the Quran mentions their names and those It doesn?t? But you would not consider it because the ?sacred? ancestors did not mention it.

Maybe you also believe that mentioning Muhammad isn?t only not haram but also obligatory because I think that you believe you owe it to Muhammad for delivering the Quran. But wait a minute! Would that do justice to Jibril who was the wahy and the real messenger of the Quran to the world since the beginning? Because if Muhammad followed your way of thinking, then Muhammad in his prayers must have been saying ?wa ashhadu anna Jibril rasool Allah?! He must have said that! After all, Muhammad recieved the Quran directly from Jibril. Muhammad saw, talked and learned firsthand from Jibril. And when Jibril did not frequent Muhammad, Muhammad felt abandoned and left out. Muhammad looked up to Jibril, so said the ancestors. So, naturally, Jibril must have had a good share in Muhammad?s prayers. But if Muhammad did not find it obligatory to mention Jibril in his prayers, why would you find it obligatory to mention Muhammad in your prayers!? And if Muhammad didn?t mention Jibril in his prayers, shouldn?t that make you wonder why?

If you consider the ancestors' word as sacred as God?s Word, this, for me, is nothing less than shirk. And if you think that our actions should be controlled solely by the word ?haram?, let me ask you this question does Allah say in the Quran that shirk is haram?

Peace,
Taj

End Quote

Any way if you do not mean what I understood, then lets be a good brother and sister.
Peace handshake

belH

Salam TAJ
Sorry, I just noted that the one who said that "testifying without witnessing" was not you, it was someone else &
Any way, you still consider saying the Shahada when praying is wrong (even you have not told me if the way i pray is right or wrong).
As you can see, my understanding of Shrik is different from yours; I understand Shrik in General is to "add new things to the religion". and my way of praying is not new thing, but was taught to us by our Prophet untill today. I will keep praying this way, untill someone prove it wrong from the Quran.

Peace

Fajr

Salam Belal,

Most of the people here understand what shirk is. You are preaching to the choir, Belal! What I would like to know is your point from this post!

Outsiders read what you are writing , I'm one of them , I'm sunni and I'm studying all about Quran only Muslims.

Prince

Salam TAJ
Sorry, I just noted that the one who said that "testifying without witnessing" was not you, it was someone else &
Any way, you still consider saying the Shahada when praying is wrong (even you have not told me if the way i pray is right or wrong).
As you can see, my understanding of Shrik is different from yours; I understand Shrik in General is to "add new things to the religion". and my way of praying is not new thing, but was taught to us by our Prophet untill today. I will keep praying this way, untill someone prove it wrong from the Quran.
Peace

A few questions

What source do you use to decide what is a new thing added to the religion?
Its illogical to prove a negative but rather a postive claim should be proven by yourself. If your saying prayer is ordained in the traditional way then the proof rests on yourself by finding the method in Al-Quran. Saying the method your doing now is what the Prophet did creates a dilemma for you. There are different methods of prayer done by sunni and shia and I believe hadiths don't even describe the full traditional prayer. So how do you know which is the right method taught by the Prophet by looking at all the sects within islam??
Do you believe you are not making distinctions between messengers when adding Prophet Muhammed at the end of the shahada? Making distinctions between messengers is not what a believer should be doing as per quranic ayats 2285, 2136, 4152 & 384. If you believe you are not making distinctions between them, then why stop at adding Prophet Muhammed why not other messengers?

PEACE

TAJ

Salam Fajr,

Salam Belal,

Most of the people here understand what shirk is. You are preaching to the choir, Belal! What I would like to know is your point from this post!

Outsiders read what you are writing , I'm one of them , I'm sunni and I'm studying all about Quran only Muslims.

In terms of Islam and Islamic issues, for most people Free-minds sounds like a crazy place, when it is the only site that makes sense in the whole cyberspace. And since not many people have sense "but most of them lack wisdom" that I thought very few would be watching this site. Al hamdu liLlahi you are not one of the majority, so thanks for the watch and welcome handshake

Fajr

thanks for the watch and welcome .

TAJ
Thanks handshake

belH

A few questions

What source do you use to decide what is a new thing added to the religion?

Peace
I use the Quran as a measuer to judge hadith.

There is a clear commandment for us to pray, therefore, praying is not a new thing that was added to religion; in other words, praying is not Shrik. The following link will show the way I pray, and the way 1,5 billion Moslem pray.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16691.15
If you think that God showed in the Quran the way we should pray, please let me know.
By the way, Suni and Shia pray the same way.

Two weeks ago, I started to add most the prophets in my Shahada for the reason you mentioned.

Peace

i_believe

Two weeks ago, I started to add most the prophets in my Shahada for the reason you mentioned.

Most...not All? God tells us not to distinguish between the prophets. How about leaving out the prophets when saying the Shahada and praying to God Alone?

Peace

belH

Most...not All? God tells us not to distinguish between the prophets. How about leaving out the prophets when saying the Shahada and praying to God Alone?

Peace

Peace
Mohamed (PBUH) came with the message that says, we can not make no differences between prophets; thus, when you say the Shahada, you are accepting what he wrote?the Quran.
The following is when I say the Shahada
In posture

"Tashahud
"Attahiyat u lil Allah i wa assalawat u wa attaiyibat. Assalam u a'laika aiyoha annabiyyu wa rahmat u Allah i wa barakatuh. Assalam u a'laina wa a'la ebadi e llahi essaliheen.
Ashehadu alla ilaha illa Allah u wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasooluh.

"All our oral, physical and monetary ways of worship are only for Allah. Peace, mercy and blessing of Allah be on you, O Prophet. May peace be upon us and on the devout slaves of Allah. I testify that there is no God but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is His slave and messenger".

"Salat Ala An-nabi"
"Allah umma salli a'la Muhammadin wa ala aali Muhummadin, kama sallaita ala Ibraheema, wa ala aali Ibraheem, innaka hameedun majeed. Allah u mma barik a'la Muhammadin wa ala aali Muhummadin, kama barakta ala Ibraheema, wa ala aali Ibraheem, innaka h ameedun majeed".

"O God send your Mercy on Muhammad and his posterity as you sent Your mercy on Abraham and his posterity. You are the Most Praised, The Most Glorious. O God, send your Blessings on Muhammad and his posterity as you have blessed Abraham and his posterity. You are the Most praised, The Most Glorious".

A short prayer
"Rubbana aatina fi uddunya hasanatun wa fi l aakherati hasah, waqina a'zabannar".
"Our Lord, grant us the good of this world and that of the Hereafter and save us from the torture of Hell.".

But as you can see, it is not Quran verses; therefore, leaving the name or adding name will not make different; but what makes different is your intention of doing so. My God knows every body intention, and if my intention is to favor a prophet over others, then God will punish me for that.

What is important is your intention.

salam

unknownuser

Salam,

Belalhammad, your actions reveal your intentions.

"Acting" one way and then saying your "intention" is another is a contradiction.

Intention means an act or instance of determining mentally upon some action or result.
a purpose or attitude toward the effect of one's actions or conduct
goal, Intention, intent, purpose all refer to a wish that one means to carry out.

An intention is the result you wish to have from a physical action (such as speech, or movement etc)

Therefore, what is the intention (or goal if you will) of reciting Muhammad's name with the shahada if it is not to make a difference between him and the other messengers?

If your intention (or goal or purpose) is to not make a difference between the messengers then you would try not to do it.

But if you are reciting Muhammad's name with the Shahada and no other prophet then that ACTION reveals that your intention is to make a difference between Muhammad and the other prophets by only mentioning his name.

Yes, Allah knows our true intentions.
Say your intention is to drive directly to the bank.
You try to do this but you become involved in an automobile accident (through no fault of your own).

In this case, saying that even though you did not drive directly to the bank, your intention was to do so and you have no proof but Allah knows your true intention.
You made every effort to drive directly to the bank but something outside of your control intervened.

This is where the excuse "Allah knows your true intentions" is applicable.

However, I see in your post you are misusing this statement.

You are deliberately acting one way (you are in full control of what you are saying) and then claiming that your intention is something else.

Now if someone forced you to say Muhammad's name when reciting the shahada I would agree that your intention (the action you intended to perform) was to not make a difference in the messengers, but something outside of your control forced you to act otherwise.

Salam,

Arnab

belH