Obey man-made law or not?
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Are you sure about that? The only difference I can see between "man-made law" and "Shariah law" is that one claims to be from god!
So in that vein, at least the rest of the world are honest about their constructions. Plus, the prior is usually based on research and evidence while the latter is just conjecture of scholars. I know which one I'd rather follow and the world progress shows it quite well as to which is more successful.
Hi OPF,
I agree- but i was hoping someone would bring out some verse where obeying the law is encouraged- strongly in the quran. So we would be obliged to uphold all law.
Are there such ayah's?
Salaams.
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i can't picture goin to hell over not following the speed limit... but one will be subject to fines... and should one's recklessness cause injury or death one would bear the burdens of that, both temporal and spiritual
Sorry AaRoN,
I am afraid it can be worse then going to hell in the hereafter Br...............
but What?
Starting ones hell right here in this life, and come on don't think it doesn't happen it happen to millions.....
The only thing that can prevent that is to obey laws acceptable to all individuals, leaving out the odd people - here and there- those who never agree, the criminals.
(
God Bless.
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Salaam Simple.
Edip posted something interesting in another thread
872 Those who have acknowledged and emigrated and strived with their money and lives in the cause of God, and those who sheltered and supported; these are the allies of one another. Those who acknowledged but did not emigrate, you do not owe them any allegiance until they emigrate. But if they seek your help in the system, then you must support them, except if it is against a people with whom there is a treaty between you. God is watcher over what you do.*
008072 This verse unequivocally states that the rule of law is above any other affiliation. Islam emphasizes the importance of the rule of law, justice and peace (1691,92).
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Salaam Simple.
Edip posted something interesting in another thread
Salaams Br,
yes you right to a degree- but all those ayah's refer to people who believe - in Allah, whereas i am looking for categorical statements indicating law to be considered foremost.
2144 and 2149 are such statements - i think, but just can't be bothered with sitting down and proving it.
But like minded people can investigate it for themselves- i think.
Salaams.
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I think certain man-made laws can be thought of as logically derived from God's laws. Speed limits are there to prevent manslaughter for which the Quran says there has to be atonement. Though I know many man-made laws are ridiculous, unreasonable, restrictive, authoritarian, unfair and ungodly, like tax laws. No verse in the Quran says people have to pay any kind of tax. The Quran encourages people (it doesn't force them) to "Give God a righteous loan" (2245) and commands believers to give Zakat (2277) but God doesn't give anyone the authority to punish people who refuse to give these things. Only God will punish people who don't give Zakat or give God a righteous loan.
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I don't really think that it matters whether Allah mentions following man-made law or not, since all law that is employed in todays world is man-made and if people didn't follow the laws of the society in which they lived there would be anarchy. As long as the laws of the given society are not oppressive or unjust there is no reason for anyone not to follow them. You don't need the Quran to spell that out for you.
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I think certain man-made laws can be thought of as logically derived from God's laws. Speed limits are there to prevent manslaughter for which the Quran says there has to be atonement. Though I know many man-made laws are ridiculous, unreasonable, restrictive, authoritarian, unfair and ungodly, like tax laws. No verse in the Quran says people have to pay any kind of tax. The Quran encourages people (it doesn't force them) to "Give God a righteous loan" (2245) and commands believers to give Zakat (2277) but God doesn't give anyone the authority to punish people who refuse to give these things. Only God will punish people who don't give Zakat or give God a righteous loan.
What is so bad about paying tax? The money you pay out goes to helping your country and your community.
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Peace Bubbles,
What is so bad about paying tax? The money you pay out goes to helping your country and your community.
If the second sentence were true, then I would agree. Unfortunately, it's only part-true. Here in the US, local taxes do actually help the community. But the big money, federal taxes, get paid to a private bank called the federal reserve, which in turn gets lent back to America with interest. It's immoral, and illegal.
Peace,
Tay -
Bubbles,
What if one doesn't want to help their community? It's not right to take money from someone without their consent for whatever reason. You don't owe your community anything. Some people argue that the people of a country owe their government for creating and maintaining conditions that are conducive to earning a livelihood, but the government benefits just as much for creating and maintaining those conditions and only willing people are selected to be in government specifically for maintaining peaceful conditions. A government that does its job doesn't do its people any favour at all; it merely does what it's meant to do. If it doesn't, then it should be terribly fearful. One may argue that taxes should be compulsory because they pay for things like healthcare and education, but I don't believe these are a government's responsibilities, nor do I believe that children have a legal right to those things. I believe the Quranic form of government is a night watchman state where the government humbly and gratefully accepts whatever charity its people give it, and that its only duties are dispensing justice and safeguarding its peoples' rights and lives from internal as well as external threats. The Quran never says "And force people to pay x% of what they earn so that you may provide them with substandard facilities". And people in government shouldn't be paid for being in government either (3161); they should have seperate jobs to earn money (3410).
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Bubbles,
What if one doesn't want to help their community? It's not right to take money from someone without their consent for whatever reason. You don't owe your community anything. Some people argue that the people of a country owe their government for creating and maintaining conditions that are conducive to earning a livelihood, but the government benefits just as much for creating and maintaining those conditions and only willing people are selected to be in government specifically for maintaining peaceful conditions. A government that does its job doesn't do its people any favour at all; it merely does what it's meant to do. If it doesn't, then it should be terribly fearful. One may argue that taxes should be compulsory because they pay for things like healthcare and education, but I don't believe these are a government's responsibilities, nor do I believe that children have a legal right to those things. I believe the Quranic form of government is a night watchman state where the government humbly and gratefully accepts whatever charity its people give it, and that its only duties are dispensing justice and safeguarding its peoples' rights and lives from internal as well as external threats. The Quran never says "And force people to pay x% of what they earn so that you may provide them with substandard facilities". And people in government shouldn't be paid for being in government either (3161); they should have seperate jobs to earn money (3410).
without any disrespect;
What if one doesn't want to help their community?
Then one simply isn't carrying out what the quran keeps emphasising, As helping our community is the purpose of our lives- irrespective of how much of help we can give.
confused
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without any disrespect;
Thank you )
Then one simply isn't carrying out what the quran keeps emphasising, As helping our community is the purpose of our lives- irrespective of how much of help we can give.
confused
You misunderstood me and I think it's because I was vague. What I meant was that God doesn't place any legal obligation on us to help our communities. There is certainly a moral obligation on us to help our community (417) but our societies can't punish us if we decide to be selfish and unhelpful (only God will punish such people). Similarly, the Quran says that the believers are those who fight for God's cause (2224) but the Quran doesn't prescribe any punishment for those who are too cowardly to fight in God's cause and desert the believers (913, 39, 83, 93-96, and 4811-16).
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Thank you )
You misunderstood me and I think it's because I was vague. What I meant was that God doesn't place any legal obligation on us to help our communities. There is certainly a moral obligation on us to help our community (417) but our societies can't punish us if we decide to be selfish and unhelpful (only God will punish such people). Similarly, the Quran says that the believers are those who fight for God's cause (2224) but the Quran doesn't prescribe any punishment for those who are too cowardly to fight in God's cause and desert the believers (913, 39, 83, 93-96, and 4811-16).
Sorry Br, i do think it is a legal obligation to help our communities.
Just think ten people watering a tree fertilising it but you come along and say you don't want any part of the work load but still will eat the fruit of the tree - is that quranic ? No Br.
We must obey the laws of the land and keep them in mind so we are not penalised- keep them in mind always as the quran said.
God Bless.
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Teh question is that emptiness does not exist, and that things will always be done, either purposefully by some or by default by those more aware, for good or bad. On the other hand I can't recall particular ayas (I am sorry to be so hopeless) but I think that there is more than one mention in the Quran of doing things by mutual agreement, so that mutual agreement, covenants contracted would be a source of law. Not Divine law but under the guidance of the Quran. If we go by the example of the tree, if somebody doesn't cooperate in looking after it, the mutual agreement could be that that someone would have to forego at least some of the benefits of the tree.
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Peace Bubbles,
If the second sentence were true, then I would agree. Unfortunately, it's only part-true. Here in the US, local taxes do actually help the community. But the big money, federal taxes, get paid to a private bank called the federal reserve, which in turn gets lent back to America with interest. It's immoral, and illegal.
Peace,
TayIt cannot be illegal since the government approves of the federal reserve. The federal reserve is there to foster a healthy economy and stabilise the financial system therefore it is no surprise that a portion of American taxes are paid to them.
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So according to you obeying other than God is permissible.How ?
Obeying the state ,or obeying parents ,or obeying the probphet ,other than God is a clear "shirk" .What if you obey both your parents and God. Would that be Shirk?
In the Quran it says obey the Messenger. Since God is telling us to obey the Messenger in the Quran then why are you calling it Shirk to do so? Surely if you are to obey God then you would need to listen to His commands and obey the Messenger.
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What if you obey both your parents and God. Would that be Shirk?
In the Quran it says obey the Messenger. Since God is telling us to obey the Messenger in the Quran then why are you calling it Shirk to do so? Surely if you are to obey God then you would need to listen to His commands and obey the Messenger.
Here obeying the messenger means the same message (Quran) obedience.Not a different one.So no contradiction.Do you think that obedience of prophet and obedience of God two different things ?