Question for Arnold Yasin - God does not break his laws
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God is still deciding and doing whatever he wants.It is his prerogative to decide what is law of nature.He is not sitting in a "paralyzed state" or idle form as some naturalists think.
Dr Shabbir in one his message in his website says
Yes, respected Sister,
I marvel at your knowledge!
This is N2I. Even God won't have a son without a mate. He never breaks His Own laws. So, how could Mary?
Reference http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1127
Look at this "scholar" he thinks that " mate" is must for production and he is calling it as "law of nature".Humans are going to be cloned.Then he will definitely be somersaulting for his interpretation.
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Peace Arnold,
Did not God inspire/give two horns power to intervene and by doing so is this not indirect intervention?
1883-86 And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say "I shall recite to you something of his story." Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We said "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
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Dhul-Qarnain followed God's laws so he himself gained that power. Why immediately refer to intervening? It is a law of the universe that all followign guidance and benefitting mankind (1317) will sustain on earth and even rule it (3110).
2455 Allah has promised that those nations who will believe in the Divine Laws and strengthen human resources, He will surely make them rulers in the earth - Just as He granted rule to the previous nations (286, 3327). ----. -
God is Rahman, which means to provide for the whole universe.
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God is still deciding and doing whatever he wants.It is his prerogative to decide what is law of nature.He is not sitting in a "paralyzed state" or idle form as some naturalists think.
If that is true, why would He then constantly refer to nature if He is still deciding what to do with it? This type of thinking makes God someone who cannot design something perfect! God says He already perfected it
506 Do they not look at the height above them how We have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein?
Follow the Qur'an or follow the Gods-image we inherited from the majority?
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If that is true, why would He then constantly refer to nature if He is still deciding what to do with it? This type of thinking makes God someone who cannot design something perfect! God says He already perfected it
506 Do they not look at the height above them how We have built it and beautified it, and there are no flaws therein?
Follow the Qur'an or follow the Gods-image we inherited from the majority?
That is true ,every thing is created in a perfect manner.No defect.But wherever ,and whenever he wants he can decide to interfere.May be once in a while or not at all.It is his prerogative.
He can create out of nothing even now.He is neither powerless nor idle.
That is the reason He always uses present and future (imperfect tense) for his will and wishes and powers. -
Yes He can. That was NEVER the debate. God can decide what He wants. God is NOT restricted by His own Laws. He can break them if He wished. So the question is, will He break them?
1827 Convey to them whatever of this Book is revealed
to you from your Lord. None can alter His Words. And you will find
no refuge other than Him.And
3030...There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation.
He says La Tabdeela liKhalqi, meaning He will NOT subtitute or replace the universe or its workings.
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He Himself He Himself WILL NOT SUBTITUTE HIS CREATION. La tabdeela likhalqi.
1777 (Such was Our) method in the case of those whom We sent before thee (to mankind), and thou wilt not find for Our method aught of power to change.
3362 That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change.
He Himself clearly says He will NOT change His ways.
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Salam,
As Arnold pointed out, the laws of God are unchanged.
Just because we are still discovering new things about the laws of nature does not mean they have changed.
It simply means we (as humans) have learned something new about how nature/science works.And how could humans (or anything in nature for that matter) follow God's laws if they were ever changing?
That being said, it is also obvious that God does intervene at times by issuing punishment or blessings.
It is my understanding that when God does intervene he uses the laws that he already has in place.
Salam,
Arnab -
No one says that these are ever changing laws.These are constant for the creatures.But God may change if he wants
God has used present and future tense (imperfect).
It means God is still as active as He was .Othewise there was no need in using imperfect tense. -
Yes, but does this refer to changing His laws, or the new universes that will be created in Akhira, the future?
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He Himself He Himself WILL NOT SUBTITUTE HIS CREATION. La tabdeela likhalqi.
1777 (Such was Our) method in the case of those whom We sent before thee (to mankind), and thou wilt not find for Our method aught of power to change.
3362 That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change.
He Himself clearly says He will NOT change His ways.
Just curious
Show me the Verse where He says"He will not change his ways"
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4823 Such is God's sunna with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's sunna.
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4823 Such is God's sunna with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's sunna.
This aya is as a general principle.It is talking with reference to creatures.Yes creatures are bound to these laws.
There are always exceptions to laws.But when state we state in a general way.
Above I have quoted a verse from "Al-Hajj".No one says that these are ever changing laws.These are constant for the creatures.But God may change if he wants
If He cannot /does not interfere why does he says "He does what wants".It means He 'is still doing" .What is He doing? Will you explain?
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He sustains the creation as He is Rabb. And His Will is constantly at work through His Laws in the universe. That is what He is doing.
And God CAN do what he want. That was never the question. But He has decided a certain course in the universe, which is His Sunna, His way of working, and He does not substitute His Creation for something else (3030).
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Dr Shabbir in one his message in his website says
Reference http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1127
Look at this "scholar" he thinks that " mate" is must for production and he is calling it as "law of nature".Humans are going to be cloned.Then he will definitely be somersaulting for his interpretation.
A person exists out of a mix of male and female genes. When a person is cloned, the already existing mix of female and male genes are just copied. Plus Shabbir only repeats the same argument God makes in the Qur'an. What somersault will you bring?
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Arnold Yasin Peace,
You have replied in such a great detail. I thank you for your time. I do appreciate it.
I am going through ourbeacon.com 's translation and articles these days in the hope that it will open new doors of thinking for me that might hopefully put an end to this unsettled issue I find in the book related to "supernaturals".
"Recognize God by the existence of natural laws; not by their violation" sounds the right way of doing it. I want to see if the Quran is in holistic harmony with this school of thought.
Rover
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A person exists out of a mix of male and female genes. When a person is cloned, the already existing mix of female and male genes are just copied. Plus Shabbir only repeats the same argument God makes in the Qur'an. What somersault will you bring?
Good point .A cell is already a mixture of male and female genes.It means Marry's cell alone could give birth to human being without mating with a male.
As cloning has proved -
Good point .A cell is already a mixture of male and female genes.It means Marry's cell alone could give birth to human being without mating with a male.
As cloning has provedPeace
Mary's cell can only give birth to a little girl, not a boy; as far as cloning is concerned.
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Ghazal,
Just to let you know that cloning is a phenomena that has been taking place since eons. There is nothing supernatural about it.
You must have heard about identical twins. They are a manifestation of natural cloning. A couple mates -> ONE sperm fertilized AN egg -> ONE zygote (mixture of egg and sperm) is formed -> Starts multiplying -> Suddenly, somehow, it divides into two pieces -> Two humans are formed.
One sperm + one egg -> Two identical humans are formed.
Cloning is same. If you want to be cloned, then we need two things. 1) Your DNA 2) An egg from any female. The DNA (female chromosome) of the female egg will be thrown out. Your DNA (male + female chromosome pair) will be forcefully placed in there. Egg will be forced to divide by an electric shock. The process starts....
DNA that we are placing in the egg is already a mixture of male and female.
Pardon me if you already knew all that. My point is that there is nothing supernatural about this.
Mary's phenomena was totally different.
Rover