Thoughts on Tariq ramadhan.
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I feel ramadhan could change a few minds as he is from a sunni background and does not outright reject the seerah. However he is radical,comparitively speaking. He has asked for a moritorium on all 'hudood' punishments until study proves that they should be applied nowadays.
I dont feel he is an appeaser really,he is trying to show that the quran is not about literalism but about social justice...
Rome wasnt built in a day...... -
salam,
I feel ramadhan could change a few minds as he is from a sunni background and does not outright reject the seerah. However he is radical,comparitively speaking. He has asked for a moritorium on all 'hudood' punishments until study proves that they should be applied nowadays.
It sounds like he is compromising (like the two gentlemen I mentioned).
If we compromise, then we are not doing anybody a favor as such action will lead people to a) commit kufr by rejecting the Quran`s ascertion that it is complete and detailed, and b) commit shirk by introducing external laws not authorized/sanctioned by God.
7214-15 `And among us are those who submitted, and among us are the compromisers. As for those who have submitted, they have sought what is correct. And as for the compromisers, they are firewood for Hell.
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I am in complete agreement with Layth. Throughout history, almost invariably, the messengers and their supporters were perceived by the majority to be radicals, eccentrics, crazies, etc.
First, it is not our job to change other people or change the world by any means. Our job is to try it in an honest and truthful way. By telling the truth, without compromising, without distorting or without hiding it. That is what the Quran teaches us Fastaqim kama umirta! Be straightforward as you are commanded! Our example Abraham did not please idol -worshipers; to the contrary, he provoked them to think.
Besides, major historical reforms and revolutions are the result of the message and work of marginal radicals. Compromisers provide only band-aid solution for cancer, and if Tariq Ramadan is doing that, he will never succeed in eliminating the cancer from the brains of the muslim world, which is shirk and ignorance.
However, compromisers usually work against the real reformers and revolutionaries and lead the confused and scared majorities to undergo incremental cosmetic changes; compromisers help the majority to save face and have the illusion of progress without really changing their false and regressive way of thinking and living.
La ilahe illa Allah, that is, there is No god, except the one God is the maxim! And, it has no middle, no light, no diluted, no vanilla flavor, no hearsay friendly, and no moderate option.
Peace,
Edip -
salam curtly,
I have not read Tariq Ramadhan so perhaps you would further expand why you believe he would make a dent with the sunnis. I personally find the approach you describe as one of appeasment much like what jamal albanna and ahmed deedat did/do which is a complete waste.
Tariq Ramadan is the grandson of AlBanna.
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I find the replies from the aformetioned two as based on the massive assumption that ramadhan is somehow untruthful or diluting his message...
Tariq may be more genuine than those whose 'dogma' is based on intellectual arrogance or being radical based on psychological problems.
I also see a massive assumption in that people equate their own PERSONAL understanding with absolute truth. (amd thus equating themselves with prophets.)
To me this is a traditional sunni mentality in that 'we have all the truth',and we dont need to investigate what anyone outside our cult is saying,and we will brand anyone who is not on our methodology....
You can take the man out of sunnism,but its more difficult (so it seems.) to take the sunnism out of the man.... -
I don't always agree with Ramadan, but I do see him as important in Islamic reform. I like his books and methods.
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This is what i was getting at arnold. He seems to be interested in the truth,and sees problems in traditional islam. He delves heavily into the social justice side of islam,which i believe is its most attractive appeal to many. (along with monotheism.) Its not about reformers diluting,but about presenting in an eloquent,humane and practical way.....Why did moses ask for aaron to be the spokesman? To dilute the message or for clarity?
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peace curtly, all,
It is possible that Tariq Ramadan sees his views and methods as the correct way to go about it, and not that he knows the real truth and thinks it will be too hard to stomach so "appeases" the masses by giving a diluted version of the truth.
So I think we should be careful about what we say and making judgements upon others.
I saw a documentary by him and his thoughts were reasonable. He should be welcomed, and engaged with, like anyone who wishes to engage in "Islamic Reform".
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Yes,i think so wakas. I think making judgements that certain people are 'appeasers' or such is a slippery slope,especially when a person hasnt really taken any time to see what the guy is about...
Remember,even on people with a 'quran only' methodology there are a lot of widely differing opinions and it would be churlish to dismiss different views as indicative of insincerity. We saw this years ago (dont know if it still occurs.) with the hatred and animosity between quran only 19 ers and non 19 quran onlys'... -
salam curlty,
You seem to forget that Moses was about to thrash Aaron (dragging him from his beard) when he thought that he had a hand in misleading the Children of Israel. Clealry the prophets (our role models) never compromised when it came to idolatry and misleading people from the path of God.
You believe that to preach the seerah is part of Islam, while I do not. This is our main point of disconnect more so that the side topics or speakers being mentioned.
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salam curlty,
You seem to forget that Moses was about to thrash Aaron (dragging him from his beard) when he thought that he had a hand in misleading the Children of Israel.
Clearly he was wrong as he apologised for his over reaction.
But yes, no compromise on idolatry, absolutely none. I suggested some time ago that a copy of the QRT be sent to him and Hamza Yusuf. However I don't know if that was done. Furthermore a thread be created where we catalog who we have spoken to.
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About two years ago I talked to Tariq on the phone. If I remember correctly, he was at an airport, in rush. But, that was it. We did not follow up. If you know his and Hamza's mail addresses, please let me know. I would like to send each a copy of the QRT.
As for Wakas' recent reminder; thanks, I agree with him; we should not just impute bad intention. Tariq is a brave intellectual, and inshallah sooner or later he will be clear about the message of the Quran and the mission of the messenger.
Peace,
Edip -
I came cross Tariq Ramadan post in 2007, when reading and participating in Islam Forum in The Washington Post, On Faith
http//newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/muslims_speak_out/2007/07/tariq_ramadan.htmlI encourage all of you to participate on such forum due to high publicity, and due to its intention of gathering the people of faith to engage in debate.
Peace
