Virgin Birth of Isa
-
That about the name of the mothers has left me speechless. IF i don't remember wrong there is an aya in the Quran about the rights of the womb. Funny that the womb bearer however must not even have her name given to the fruit of the womb.
And the aya given by Belalhamd relates to something else and speaks about the use of the those times in Arabia. If we follow that reasoning we could end up advocating paganism because that was the Arab's usage.
There are many million of people in the world who keept the mothers name. All spanish and portugese speaking people have both the father and mothers family name. I have never been able to understand why everywhere else is not the same, I find it insulting.
Salaam
-
That about the name of the mothers has left me speechless. IF i don't remember wrong there is an aya in the Quran about the rights of the womb. Funny that the womb bearer however must not even have her name given to the fruit of the womb.
And the aya given by Belalhamd relates to something else and speaks about the use of the those times in Arabia. If we follow that reasoning we could end up advocating paganism because that was the Arab's usage.
There are many million of people in the world who keept the mothers name. All spanish and portugese speaking people have both the father and mothers family name. I have never been able to understand why everywhere else is not the same, I find it insulting.
Salaam
It is not me who you disagree with, it is the Verse (GOD WORDS).
Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
When I post, I do not add any thing except what is in the Quran' otherwise it is a Shrik.
God Called Jesus by his Mother Name in more that 15 Verse (he never Called him by a Father Name), and God did that To tell us That Jesus has no Father.
If you need to explore more in 33-5, then we should choose other thread, or we will be off Topic.Well till know it is me explaining Arabic to you )
Do you call your Arabic...Arabic.
Well, I call it a Twisted Arabic. It is an Arabic that meant to Mislead away from the true meaning of the Arabic. -
I do hope the majority mankind will grow up someday
And become like you; what an EGO. yes
Arnold
As you know SHRIK is to associate with God what he did not indicate in His Books; can you tell me how did you associate with God (his religion) that Jesues Has a Father, and his name is "Joseph? (I need a proof from The Quran).
And if you do not, then if I follow you I will be making you God within God, simple as that. -
Sorry I do not clearly understand your point.
But verse 33-5 says that we should call people with their Father name if we know who are their fathers, simple as that.
Please let me know if you understand it differently.For Verse 2-170, God is answering the people who are saying that they are following their Fathers Footsteps (Religious Teachings) even if the teachings are aginest Gods Teachings (The Books). Thus, them and their Fathers are Irrational, Ignorant, and Unknowledgeable.
If you understand what you are explaining in the above post, that should do. " aabaa' Fathers" are not necessarily males only. Scan the qur'aan for this word "'aabaa'" and show me where it must be males only.
-
Salam,
" aabaa' Fathers" are not necessarily males only.
This is correct. The word is not gender specific.
The word aba is also not gender specific in the Torah, and the Injeel....the same as alif-meem is also not gender specific.Just To clarify....what Belalhammad is saying is CORRECT.
However, we must understand at the same time that "aba" is not gender specific.
That it can refer to both sexes....then we can fully understand why Isa is called "Isa ibn Marium."
Just as a side note
The ancient pictographs of the root alif-ba (based on Ancient Hebrew) arealif=ox head
beyt/ba=floorplan of a housewhen they are put together one can understand that one of the meanings is "strong one of the house."
Salam,
Arnab -
If you understand what you are explaining in the above post, that should do. " aabaa' Fathers" are not necessarily males only. Scan the qur'aan for this word "'aabaa'" and show me where it must be males only.
Are you an arbic speaker?
I'm."Ab" is Father and "OM" is mother.
(
And from his mother and his father. (80-35)In the Qran, Most of the time, God define them by saying "Omhatkom" when he mention Mothers, and "Abaokom" when he mention Fathers; And sometimes it will mean both. In otther words, it will depend in the Verse itself.
God might say "Abohoma", as in verse 18-82, to mention both Father and Mother.
In verse 33-5 God says "Abaohom" which is for Fathers.
The reason I'm saying that is in verse 33-4, God mention Mothers, and I know that this verse was revealed to porhibt us from calling the adopted sons by the name of the Father who adopted him.(
Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way. (33-4)
Thus, based on my understanding, 33-5 is calling us to call them by their Fathers.
And therefore, if God Called Jesus by his Mother instead of a Father Name, then Jesus had no Father,
Peace
(sorry for thr late modification)
Note in Arab Culture, calling somebody by his mother name is an insult D -
Salam,
This is correct. The word is not gender specific.
The word aba is also not gender specific in the Torah, and the Injeel....the same as alif-meem is also not gender specific.Just To clarify....what Belalhammad is saying is CORRECT.
However, we must understand at the same time that "aba" is not gender specific.
That it can refer to both sexes....then we can fully understand why Isa is called "Isa ibn Marium."
Just as a side note
The ancient pictographs of the root alif-ba (based on Ancient Hebrew) arealif=ox head
beyt/ba=floorplan of a housewhen they are put together one can understand that one of the meanings is "strong one of the house."
Salam,
ArnabPeace;
So, how do you understand 33-5 -
If you understand what you are explaining in the above post, that should do. " aabaa' Fathers" are not necessarily males only. Scan the qur'aan for this word "'aabaa'" and show me where it must be males only.
Moreover, 33-5 says "if ye know not their father's ", and if knowing the Mother is never been a problem and knowing the Father is a problem, then "Abaohom" is for Fathers.
-
Peace,
Here's some trivia
Who said this? (hint, no relation to Isa)"Son of my mother, the people overpowered me and nearly killed me, so do not make the enemies rejoice over me, and do not make me with the wicked people."
peace
Peace
Haroon, Moses Brother.
D -
I personally do not identify with this, "cannot be named by your mother as it is wrong" you previously said that it was cultural, but you are trying to say in the same breath that it is in the Qur'an when Man and Woman are equal on grounds except who is the protector and who is the raiser of the children. I believe this is the same sexism and subjugation I see resonating through the Hadith. I need to know enough Arabic to justify my point. Isn't it so sons are named after Fathers, Daughters after Mothers? Orphans after Mothers or Fathers that died? Does it matter? Its not wrong to do either, someone said aba is not gender specific. I'm not sure, but that would make more sense.
-
Do you call your Arabic...Arabic.
Well, I call it a Twisted Arabic. It is an Arabic that meant to Mislead away from the true meaning of the Arabic.I always quote the dictionaries, I never make the meanings up or assume I know them through the modern common meanings. Quranic Arabic is different from Modern Arabic since MSA has been changed and shaped by a 1000 years of secterianism, Christian/Jewish and Persian influences. Maybe it is a humble suggestion to stop assuming your Arabic is the same as the Arabic of the Prophet and study the classic dictionaries to get a better picture of the possibilities of the meanings of some key words we have discussed.
-
Are you an arbic speaker?
I'm.Question irrelevant. Lane was not arabic speaker. Many arabic speakers do not know arabic (these are not examples of you or me, just examples).
Om and Ab are not just natural parents. They are parents who sustained and brought up the child. A father who left his child and never cared about it is not "ab" but "walid". This (i.e ab; om) also covers "adoptive" fathers and nursing women, whom God called "your nursing mothers".
"ad3iyaa' " is the plural of "da3ii imposter, claimant, not real" It has nothing to do with adopted sons. The claimant could be the one who made himself your son, not you who claimed him to be your son, but you liked it and went with it, without you being really his sustainer (ab). Maybe just for the sake of prestige.
The ancient pictographs of the root alif-ba (based on Ancient Hebrew) are
alif=ox head
beyt/ba=floorplan of a housewhen they are put together one can understand that one of the meanings is "strong one of the house."
aka sustainer; not necessarily male; and not necessarily the natural father, otherwise, the pictograph could have drawn something else
Back to verse 434 ? confused"Son of my mother, the people overpowered me and nearly killed me, so do not make the enemies rejoice over me, and do not make me with the wicked people."
Good point
-
Arnold
As you know SHRIK is to associate with God what he did not indicate in His Books; can you tell me how did you associate with God (his religion) that Jesues Has a Father, and his name is "Joseph? (I need a proof from The Quran).
And if you do not, then if I follow you I will be making you God within God, simple as that.- See 688 and 359. First mentions him part of who's father were blessed, second says he was created as all of mankind is (see present tense of the words).
- I have never said the Qur'an mentions the name nor did I ever state that the name Joseph is correct. I have only said the Bible itself says this to show that the concept of virgin birth was not part of early Christianity itself.
Please do not keep mixing up things.
-
Salam,
Peace;
So, how do you understand 33-5The main difference is in the understanding of "aba." Word by word understandings vary by some degree....
Moreover, 33-5 says "if ye know not their father's ", and if knowing the Mother is never been a problem and knowing the Father is a problem, then "Abaohom" is for Fathers.
There are times when the mother is unknown....remember when moses was put in the river by his mother....the mother was unknown to pharoah and a great deal of other people (but she was also known to others). It is not unheard of.
Salam,
This is correct. The word is not gender specific.
The word aba is also not gender specific in the Torah, and the Injeel....the same as alif-meem is also not gender specific.Just To clarify....what Belalhammad is saying is CORRECT.
However, we must understand at the same time that "aba" is not gender specific.
That it can refer to both sexes....then we can fully understand why Isa is called "Isa ibn Marium."
Just as a side note
The ancient pictographs of the root alif-ba (based on Ancient Hebrew) arealif=ox head
beyt/ba=floorplan of a housewhen they are put together one can understand that one of the meanings is "strong one of the house."
Salam,
Arnabaka sustainer; not necessarily male; and not necessarily the natural father, otherwise, the pictograph could have drawn something else
Back to verse 434 ? confusedYes, that is EXACTLY my point! bravo
Salam,
Arnab -
Are you an arbic speaker?
I'm.Question irrelevant.
Salam,
From the way the question is posed..."Are you an arabic speaker?" I see that it is VERY relevant.
Belalhammad did not ask "Are you a NATIVE Arabic speaker?" or "Is Arabic your first language?"
The question was.... Are you an Arabic speaker? In the present tense....or phrased another way would be....Do you speak Arabic?
This question is relevant to see if you are speaking about something you have knowledge of. And it is also a fair question.
Lane was not arabic speaker.
Yes, Lane WAS an Arabic speaker. Although, Arabic was NOT his first language.
He dedicated a good portion of his life to studying the language and composing a dictionary.Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
From the way the question is posed..."Are you an arabic speaker?" I see that it is VERY relevant.
Belalhammad did not ask "Are you a NATIVE Arabic speaker?" or "Is Arabic your first language?"
The question was.... Are you an Arabic speaker? In the present tense....or phrased another way would be....Do you speak Arabic?
This question is relevant to see if you are speaking about something you have knowledge of. And it is also a fair question.
Yes, Lane WAS an Arabic speaker. Although, Arabic was NOT his first language.
He dedicated a good portion of his life to studying the language and composing a dictionary.Salam,
ArnabThe context, Arnab, the context
Why is he asking if I speak Arabic? Does he need some directions?
Because, when I am abroad, I would ask someone if they speak English to ask for directions, not to engage in an academic, religious, linguistic, legal...or any other serious discussion -
Peace to all of you
Sorry, I was away from my computer. (I will try to answer every question)
Peace belalhammad,
Nicely done!
Do you know of any "son of my father" quotes in the qur'an? Or "son of ______ (male name)"(
Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! They each presented a sacrifice (to Allah) it was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely" said the former, "Allah doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous. (5-27)
(
We took the Children of Israel across the sea Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)." (10-90)
Children of Israel is Mentioned hunderds of time
(
O ye children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you, But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition! (7-26)
children of Adam is mentioned hundereds of time
(
And Mary the daughter of `Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (Servants). (66-12)
(
"Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? Call in remembrance that he made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from Allah that so Ye may prosper." (7-69)Many times
(
Said the Chiefs of the people of Pharaoh "This is indeed a sorcerer well-versed. (7-109)Tens of time
(
Hath not the story reached them of those before them? The people of Noah and Ad and Thamud; the people of Abraham, the men of Madyan, and the cities overthrown. To them came their Messenger with clear signs. It is not Allah who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls. (9-70)Tens of time
(
"And O my people! let not my dissent (from you) cause you to sin, lest ye suffer a fate similar to that of the people of Noah or of Hud or of Salih nor are the people of Lut far off from you! (11-89)Now can you tell me how many time in the Quran God named a person (male or Female) or people after a Female name?
peace
-
I personally do not identify with this, "cannot be named by your mother as it is wrong" you previously said that it was cultural, but you are trying to say in the same breath that it is in the Qur'an when Man and Woman are equal on grounds except who is the protector and who is the raiser of the children. I believe this is the same sexism and subjugation I see resonating through the Hadith. I need to know enough Arabic to justify my point. Isn't it so sons are named after Fathers, Daughters after Mothers? Orphans after Mothers or Fathers that died? Does it matter? Its not wrong to do either, someone said aba is not gender specific. I'm not sure, but that would make more sense.
I mean the Last Name or Family name; for example, Mohamed Abdulah (Mohamed is the first name and Abdulah is the father or last name.
Hillry Clinton, Susan Smith.
Can you tell me about some one who has a Female name as a last name?
This is not Sexism, but for a reason that only God knows.
peaceQuestion irrelevant.
nope
Anyway, Sorry.Salam,The main difference is in the understanding of "aba." Word by word understandings vary by some degree....
There are times when the mother is unknown....remember when moses was put in the river by his mother....the mother was unknown to pharoah and a great deal of other people (but she was also known to others). It is not unheard of
Salam,
Arnabpeace
But then Moses was named after the Egyption King (male). It is very rare to not know the mother, but easy to not know the father