Virgin Birth of Isa
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Salaam Belal
The story of Moses was the most told one, yet no mention whatsoever of his father. Even when his mother was directed by God to throw him in the river, the description of sadness was the sadness of his mother 2810, and the promise of God to return him to his mother was so that she would be happy (not his parents) 2813; 2040. We followed the story of Moses since he was a toddler, his marriage and until he became messenger and an old man, but nothing about his father. Same thing with Ibrahim, no mention of the mother. The examples you drew is of prophets having chilren who were prophets also. Maybe it's just that the parent who has no role (whether positive or negative) on the life of the prophet is just simply ignored. And yes, God did not tell us that Jesus did not have a father, otherwise this thread - and other ones- would not have continued this long. If it was important, God would have mentioned it explicitly as He does with all the other miracles which were mentioned in details, especially that nobody was born without parents before or after. Even adam had parents and was not the first human, but the first "insan". And Eve/the female was not created from adam's rib.
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Peace,
I am sorry if I repeat what was already said by other members.
I have asked the brother Aymans view about my first message in this thread (p10), he said
One thing you might want to consider in the god's laws is that we are told that we should call children after their fahers. Why is Isa called son of Mary, after his mother?
My answer is
The word 'abaihim' included the fathers and / or the mothers.
In 4 11, we read, abawayhi wich imply the mother and the father. The same word is used in 1299
Falamma dakhaloo AAala yoosufaawa ilayhi abawayhi waqala odkhuloo misrain shaa Allahu amineenaBest regards.
Marie
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Salaam Belal
The story of Moses was the most told one, yet no mention whatsoever of his father. Even when his mother was directed by God to throw him in the river, the description of sadness was the sadness of his mother 1028, and the promise of God to return him to his mother was so that she would be happy (not his parents) 1328; 2040. We followed the story of Moses since he was a toddler, his marriage and until he became messenger and an old man, but nothing about his father. Same thing with Ibrahim, no mention of the mother.
Salam everybody
True, Moses Father and Mother had no problem in having kids, nor Moses were called the son of God; thus Moses story was not revealed to clairfy misunderstandings.
The examples you drew is of prophets having chilren who were prophets also. Maybe it's just that the parent who has no role (whether positive or negative) on the life of the prophet is just simply ignored.
The three stories that I mentioned were about three cases in which "Having a baby were not possible (according to human common sense).
In the Storey of Ibrahim and Sara Ibrahim was an Old Man and Sara a Barren Old Woman. The porn Son was a Prophet
In the Story of Zakaria and his wife Zakaria was an Old Man and his Wife was Barren Women. The porn Son Was a Prophet
In the Story of Mary (no male mentioned) Mary was not Married nor touched by a Men. The Porn Son Was "A WORD OF GOD" "A SIGN OF GOD"
Only in the case of Mary Story, the Angles replied to her (after she was questioning the possibility of having a Baby), by Saying "GOD CREATES WHAT HE WISHES IN THE WAY HE WISHES (BE-AND-IT-IS Method).Therefore, the conclusion from such stories matches with the well-established verses. The well-established verses that show the Story of Mary pregnancy and her delivering of her baby under the Tree, and her approaching of her people when carrying a Baby while she was not a married woman. (Please note that if she had a husband, he would have showed up to protect her reputation, and God would have mentioned him in such case or another case (such as being a coward husband).
Moreover, when God used Adam as an example of Jesus creation, it shows a conclusion that would match with the well-established verses; also, when God calls Jesus by ?the Son of Mary? in many verses, my conclusion matches with the well-established verses.As I told you before, and Arnold, and others, If you use the Modern Science theory that indicate ?There are no Miracles in our universe? to interpret the Quran, you will be rejecting many Well-established- Verses that show God direct intervention in his universe?the Miracles. You will be using non-well-established-verses to interpret the well-established ones; and the result will be distorting will-established Quranic meanings.
This is my true advice to you and others, be aware of such a great Sin that we can commit unintentionally.Peace
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Peace everyone,
Don't you find it strange that how Zakaria was earnestly praying to God for a son and when his prayers were answered"GOD gives you good news of John", suddenly Zakaria reminded God "how is it possible I am old and my wife is barren as well", like God didn't know that before or Zakaria himself didn't know God can do anything...
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Peace Hamsa
If you'll note God tends to be underestimated .
Someone mentioned about direct intervention with God and I should like to say that God always has a hand in all things. God does not just decide to intervene here and there for the performance of "miracles". He is the straw that stirs the drink.
Joe
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As I told you before, and Arnold, and others, If you use the Modern Science theory that indicate ?There are no Miracles in our universe? to interpret the Quran, you will be rejecting many Well-established- Verses that show God direct intervention in his universe?the Miracles. You will be using non-well-established-verses to interpret the well-established ones; and the result will be distorting will-established Quranic meanings.
Peace
Salaam,
God speaks of ayas, not of miracles, am I wrong?
Next, what makes you think that usual existence, every bit of it every moment has not the direct intervention of God? For me that is a given. I recall ayat al cursi. He is not tired and it is easy for him, he sustains everything all the time, He is rabb al alameen. However 3isa came to this world, is a miracle, just as the way I came to the world is a miracle and the way you came to the world. Everything is a miracle. But some things God explains as ayas.
So you want to see in the hadith about Maryam and 3isa an aya of God's, ability to create ex nihilo... May be it is good for you to see it that way. To me and I believe that to many others it doesn't add anything, since we take that for very much granted and conclusively prooved, but the aya God is shows us is in other things that have already been told in this thread.
Salaam
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Salaam Belal, all
God says (865-6)-
Now let man but think from what he is created!
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He is created from a drop emitted-
Jesus was not created from a drop of simen, therefore Jesus is not human
Is this what you want to arrive to? Why did Christians consider him god? Because they came to the same conclusion that he is different from humans, i.e non human, therefroe divine. Add to this, some "Muslims" believe God blew into the private parts of Mariam (farajaha). Link the dotts and Jesus is the son of God.
This is not science (well, a little bit of common knowledge), but simple logic
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Salam all
Jesus was not created from a drop of simen, therefore Jesus is not human
Is this what you want to arrive to?
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Al-Jinn (Chapter 72)
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the MercifulSay It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said
We have really heard a wonderful Recital! (72-1) It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein We shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord. (2)And exalted is the Majesty of our Lord He has taken neither a wife nor a son. (3)There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah; (4)But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that is untrue against Allah. (5)That is the Message that Jinns understood, and believer should to. Mary is not Gods' wife, nor Jesus is his Son.
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And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men,
worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (116) "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit,Worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me upThou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things. (4-117)And that is what Jesus will say in JD, and what I believe
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O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity" desist it will be better for you for Allah is One Allah glory be to him (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (171) Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah) those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4-172)
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In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." (5-17)And that is how God wants us to pictuer Jesus, and that is what I believe, No More and No Less.
Jesus is the "WORD OF GOD", Jesus is "One of the Creatures that GOD GREATED". Jesus is "Abed ALLAH"
Add to this, some "Muslims" believe God blew into the private parts of Mariam (farajaha).
Anybody says any thing about the Unseen that is not revealed in Quran (or the original Bible and Torah) is commetting a Great SIN.
Salaam,
God speaks of ayas, not of miracles, am I wrong?
True (you are not wrong), but the common used word is Miracle.
Next, what makes you think that usual existence, every bit of it every moment has not the direct intervention of God? For me that is a given.
What makes you think that is what I believe? It is given for all believers; each breath I take is by God direct intervention. But in this thread and others, some people think that God has created the Universe and its Laws that he will never change; thus, Jesus had to be created by Father and Mother.
So you want to see in the hadith about Maryam and 3isa an aya of God's, ability to create ex nihilo... May be it is good for you to see it that way. To me and I believe that to many others it doesn't add anything, since we take that for very much granted and conclusively prooved, but the aya God is shows us is in other things that have already been told in this thread.
Salaam
I do not understand every thing you wrote, but for me it is not a big deal that God created Jesus without a Father, because GOD can do any thing He wants.
But the big deal is when somebody claims a lie about God, such as "the Quran supports that Jesus had a Father"; then I will have to strive to show the truth (it becomes very very Big Deal ;D)
Peace everyone,
Don't you find it strange that how Zakaria was earnestly praying to God for a son and when his prayers were answered"GOD gives you good news of John", suddenly Zakaria reminded God "how is it possible I am old and my wife is barren as well", like God didn't know that before or Zakaria himself didn't know God can do anything... )
That is how all humans are, including profits, we forget and tend to underestimate God's Power. hail (as per the following quote from Joe's post, which I agree with)
Peace Hamsa
If you'll note God tends to be underestimated .
Peace all
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`But we thought that no man or spirit would say aught that is untrue against Allah. (5)
Sorry I had to change the translation, which I copied from Yousuf Ali, of 72-5 from "man or Spirit", to Men and Jinns.
`But we thought that no men or Jinns would say aught that is untrue against Allah. (72-55)
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Peace Hamsa
If you'll note God tends to be underestimated .
Someone mentioned about direct intervention with God and I should like to say that God always has a hand in all things. God does not just decide to intervene here and there for the performance of "miracles". He is the straw that stirs the drink.
JoePeace
Do you mean he underestimated God's power? He was asking God to give him something while underestimating His powers? Does that make sense? Can you think any better interpretation why he asked such a strange question?
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God speaks of ayas, not of miracles, am I wrong?
You're right.
The word "mu3jiza miracle" does not exist in the qur'aan, although other derivatives of the same root are. The meaning of 3jz is to be unable to do something, hence 3ajuuz could be old or unable to give birth as in verses 1172 and 5129. The transitive form of the verb (a3jaza) from which is directly derived the word "mu3jiza" is also used and generally means inacessible. mu3jiz (as an active participle) exists in the qur'aan, but not mu3jiza (noun).
God speaks of His "ayas". This does not mean that His ayas are accessible to us, but we can understand them because they follow a law (that's also an aya in itself). When we are unable to find this law, we usually speak of "mu3jiza". A mu3jiza is an out of order event, aya is very much in order, the order of God, which He states to us.
The more people understand the laws of God, the more ayas they see and the less miracles they believe in. That's why God commands us to study ourselves and investigate the universe around us in search of His ayas. Miracles do not need to be studied, because they follow no law. -
Peace Hamsa,
I think you got something else in mind; do not keep us waiting, and let us know what it is. hmmPeace
I am learning from you guys, but tell me honestly does that make sense to you?
Do you mean he underestimated God's power? He was asking God to give him something while underestimating His powers? Does that make sense?
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I am learning from you guys, but tell me honestly does that make sense to you?
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Maryam
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the MercifulKaf. Ha. Ya.
Ayn. Sad. (1) (This is) a recital of the Mercy of thy Lord to His Servant Zakariya. (2) Behold! He cried to his Lord in secret (3) Praying "O my Lord! Infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey but never am I unblest O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee! (4) "Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me but my wife is barren so give me an heir as from Thyself (5) "(One that) will (truly) represent me, and represent the posterity of Jacob; and make him, O my Lord! one with whom Thou art well-pleased!" (6) (His prayer was answered) "O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son his name shall be Yahya on none by that name have We conferred distinction before." (7) He said "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?" ( He said "So (it will be) thy Lord saith,That is easy for Me I did indeed create thee before, when thou hadst been nothing!' " (9) (Zakariya) said "O my Lord! Give me a Sign." "Thy Sign", was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb." (10) So Zakariya came out to his people from his chamber he told them by signs to celebrate Allah's praises in the morning and in the evening. (19-11)( ( ( ( (
Right graciously did her Lord accept her He made her grow in purity and beauty; to the care of Zakariya was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said "O Mary! whence (comes) this to you?" She said "From Allah for Allah provides sustenance to whom He pleases, without measure." (37) There did Zakariya pray to his Lord saying "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure; for Thou art He that heareth prayer!" (3 While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him "Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet,of the (goodly) company of the righteous." (39) He said "O my Lord! how shall I have a son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?" "Thus" was the answer "Doth Allah accomplish what He willeth." (40) He said "O my Lord! Give me a sign!" "Thy Sign" was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning." (3-41)
When I read these verses, I can note that Zakria did not ask God for a Son, before, because he knew that his wife is Barren. But when Mary reminded him that God Give what he wants to whom he pleases, then he wispered to God his wish of having a Son (it was a wish that is too Good to Be True, according to human Logic). But God wanted to teach him that nothing is impossible for God to do, even if it is not Logic to Us.
That is as Good as I can Understand. D
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laugh Could be, ingrained in my sub conscious. Can you please change it to a pigeon, for example?
A pigeon.... Let me think about it? Maybe when you answer my Questions that asked before?
By the way, I'm a Marketer; part of my research was about brand Logo and its effect in Consumer buying behavior. -
A pigeon.... Let me think about it? Maybe when you answer my Questions that asked before?
What questions? Please refresh my memory. And the pigeon should better be stuffed.
By the way, I'm a Marketer; part of my research was about brand Logo and its effect in Consumer buying behavior.
It seems your logo did not have the anticipated effect. I am not "buying" your interpretation
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What questions? Please refresh my memory.
When understanding Quran Messages, should we use the Well-Established verses to understand the meaning of the non-well-established ones or no?
and if your answer is yes, why you are not following this rule?The other question, are you an arabic speaker ;D?
And the pigeon should better be stuffed.
Why? and Why Pigeon and not Eagle?
It seems your logo did not have the anticipated effect. I am not "buying" your interpretation
But you were intimidated.
Logo pictuers that make people buy interpretation of Religion are a way for Deceiving people; and I'm not here to deceive others, but to debate with any one who highjacks my Quran.By the way, Eagle is one of my favorite.
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When understanding Quran Messages, should we use the Well-Established verses to understand the meaning of the non-well-established ones or no?
and if your answer is yes, why you are not following this rule?Did you ask me this question before?
The other question, are you an arabic speaker ?
What do you think and why?
Why? and Why Pigeon and not Eagle?
Because I do not eat stuffed eagles
my Quran.
The qur'aan belongs to no one. It's for humankind.