A topic for those who study Classical Arabic
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Peace,
Can someone please tell me what these words mean
(Aatinn act. pcpl. masc. indef. )
(Al-Aatee act. pcpl. masc. def. )
(Aatiyatun. act. pcpl. fem. indef. )
(Al-Aatiyatu. act. pcpl. fem. def.)
Act. = active
pcpl. = participle
masc. = masculine
fem. = feminine
I'm going through active and passive participles, but the textbook doesn't translate the different forms - it's SOOOOOOO frustrating!
Nadeem
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Salam Nadeem,
You may benefit from purchasing a copy of Hans Wehr's Arabic-English Dictionary. The different forms of the words are usually defined.
The book usually runs around $40 or so, but it is worth it. My personal copy has been used so much that I have had to repair it with Very strong tape. It is very dog-eared and worn. It was a very good investment as far as I'm concerned.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace Arnab,
Thanks for the recommendation. I've actually been somewhat reluctant to buy Modern Arabic dictionaries, because I am studying Classical Arabic, and I fear that I might mix them up.
But if the different forms are defined, then I'll certainly go for it -)
Nadeem
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Btw... It will take some time before Hans Wehr is in my hands... Could you look up those forms in your dictionary and tell me what they mean?
And, can someone tell me if "Maa Akhuzoohu laysa lahum" is valid for "That which they seized doesn't belong to them"?
Nadeem
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Peace,
Please take a look at this
http//bp3.blogger.com/_OlIFaRNTuoE/SAZVbRSSOVI/AAAAAAAAAAg/nm5fem1yQbg/s1600/image-upload-22-737701.jpeCan I translate nr. 5 (the one top of the page) as "They said 'We testified against ourselves, as the worldly life deluded us'. They testified against themselves that they were disbelievers!"
According to the key the translation goes "They said 'We bear witness against ourselves, for the worldly life deceived us'. They bore witness against themselves that they had been liars!"
I think the key is wrong.
Is there are difference been "had been" and "were"?
Nadeem
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In context - "had been" would imply that they used to be liars and are no longer whereas "were" would imply "had been" but not the "no longer" aspect. So presumably the key is correct.
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Peace,
Can someone please tell me what these words mean
(Aatinn act. pcpl. masc. indef. )
(Al-Aatee act. pcpl. masc. def. )
(Aatiyatun. act. pcpl. fem. indef. )
(Al-Aatiyatu. act. pcpl. fem. def.)
Act. = active
pcpl. = participle
masc. = masculine
fem. = feminine
I'm going through active and passive participles, but the textbook doesn't translate the different forms - it's SOOOOOOO frustrating!
Nadeem
These are called "declined nouns". They are nouns ending in a "yaa" with an "i" as a short vowel before it. Examples . Their rule is that they lose the yaa when in the indefinite and nominative or genetive cases. A genetive "tanween" replaces the "damma" and the "kasra". In the feminine form, the "yaa" is no more final, so it is no more a "declined" noun.
Examples(nominative) A lawyer came
(genetive) I went to a lawyer
(accusative) I saw a lawyerBut the feminine form is not affected by this rule
When in the definite form it keeps the yaa, but the "damma" and the "kasra" do not show. The "fatha" does -
Peace,
Good job, Samia. This is exactly how I would have explained it. So, Nadeem, when applied to ataa, Aat(in) is the indefinite active participle (Meaning that it describes the person, place or thing that does come, is coming or will be coming. It could be all of these depending on the context. Al-aatee is definite). This is also known in Arabic as ism faa3il. The weak radical on the end being yaa is condensed from what would have been aatiyin to aatin (this goes for all indefinite words with a ya as the final radical in its root letters). If vowels are written you will see a kasrah tanween, if not you will just see alif (madda) and taa. When these words with yaa as their last radical are in definite form the yaa is written, hence al-aatee. alif (maddah), taa, yaa. (it means the one (person, place or thing) coming). In feminine form you will always see the ya, for instance indefinite, feminine = aatiYat(un) and definite al-aatiYat(u). I hope you undersand. There are many other interesting things that you will find in traditional Quranic scripts that unlike this case are not written in modern Arabic scripts. For instance ya and kasra being interchangeable and even alifs and fatha's being interchangeable.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Samia, Progod, all
Thank you for explaining the participle. I've read a lot, and I feel like I have some grip of it now.
Now I have another question What is the difference between these three
- Iz
- Izaa
- Lammaa
Supposedly, they all mean "when", but are there some subtle differences that I need to be aware of?
Peace,
Nadeem
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idh (the first) can be a synonym of idhaa, and idhan. It can also mean behold, so, then.
idhaa can be a synonyom of idhaan. It can mean so, when, if. It is also used before a verb to mean if whereas idhan cannot be used this way. idh can be used this way usually preceding subjunctive or accusative forms of a verb yaf3al/fa3ala (take for instance in yasha' allahu (the phrase in the Quranic verse about saying if God wills on the morrow) and in shaa' allahu (not used in that verse but the most used spoken form of 'if God wills' and yaf3ala instead of yaf3alu.
lamma = when, not yet, whereas, or even la + maa + verb (certainly + negative + verb).
These forms can overlap in certain circumstances in meaning as you can see but also have some slightly different usages.
Godbless,
Anwar -
idh yu-aakhidhni allahu arjoo al-jannata (when God judges me I hope for the garden) Note this is not yu-aakhidunee. (it technically could be yu-aakhidhanee)
idh waa3ada allahu musaa . . . (when God made a convenant with Moses . . .)
idh Allahu huwa al-kabeeru (Behold God is the great one)
kuntu attakallamu idh jaa-a akhi (I was talking, then my brother came).idhaa yumkin rajaa-an. . . (whenver (with the meaning of if) possible please)
huwa muhandisun idhaa (So/Then he's an engineer). Less commonly idhaa huwa muhandisun
(idhaa jaa'a nasrullaahi wal-fathu) (When God's help and opportunity/victory come . . .)
Idhan huwa muhandisun, huwa muhandisun idhan (So he's an engineeer).
All off these can be doubled up with fa or wa. Old Arabic/ Classical Arabic likes redundancy with differnet word choice. (it's a form fo eloquence). fa and wa also have functions of sentence starters and commas. Like Giver her an education, the best one. 'Allimhaa fa ahsana ta'leemin
Godbless,
AnwarI hope that was enough. I know what i am talking about here as I life-long linguist. So I will not respond to the seeders of doubt, (fa) Arab or non-Arab because only true linguist truly think about how things are said, (fa) what is strong and good flow or what is akward (but valid) flow.
Like an Arabic teacher i had would tell me often when I would say certaint things "You can say it and it makes sense but it's weak" And what i said it in more commonly used/established ways he would say "Good, that was strong."
Bigups to Al-faqeehi