Why dont muslims observe the Hajj?
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peace,
The Quran clearly states that if one cannot make the visit to send a donation. And do not shave your heads till it reaches its destination.
The above is a common mistranslation. Even the ProgressiveMuslims/Free-Minds translation has this mistake.
Try the search function for past discussion.
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SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN? You tell me... If it dont say that then what do it say? Does it say somthin other than not to shave the heads untill it reaches its destination..ect...?
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peace,
Typing in "shave" in the search function for example brings up some past threads, one of which is
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8807.msg49208#msg49208Read in conjunction with
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9022.msg48647#msg48647The evidence is overwhelming.
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So do u think i can shave my head? Thanks 4 the info, im go study it further. Peace....
Were do u go for the literal translations or to find the roots for the words? Thats what i need and some kind of dictionary or somethin so i can translate or interpret the meanings by my Lords leave, ,, like how you do it.
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peace,
So do u think i can shave my head?
You can do anything. Perhaps you mean "do I have to shave my head according to The Quran?". I am of the opinion it is clearly not a requirement.
Were do u go for the literal translations or to find the roots for the words? Thats what i need and some kind of dictionary or somethin so i can translate or interpret the meanings by my Lords leave, ,, like how you do it.
See www.studyquran.org
Particularly www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm -
O.K. like I say, im still studyin this topic...So be paitient.
Do you think that it can be one of Gods symbols? For instance, like we have to wash the way the Scripture tells us if we rise up to pray/ commune/ salat... Isnt that a symbol??? If so , maby the not shaving of the heads until duty is fulfilled is one of Gods symbols...
peace,
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Do you think that it can be one of Gods symbols?
It could be a symbol if one disregards logic and other usage of the word.
For instance, like we have to wash the way the Scripture tells us if we rise up to pray/ commune/ salat... Isnt that a symbol???
I would not rush to say washing oneself is entirely symbolic
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596742.msg172498#msg172498 -
I belive it is physical also, it makes more sence to me and is clear,,everything else is just confusin...There are symbols( Physical) and signs, this goes back to the examples in Torah.
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Sacred Dwelling; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Sacred Temple; make you aggress. And bond together in piety and righteousness, and do not bind together in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for God's retribution is severe.
2232 Thus, and whoever honors the symbols of God, then it is from the piety of the hearts.
2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of God; you will have benefit in them. So mention God?s name upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
Peace,
( Im just throwin this up in the air.)
Also The Roman governor Pilate washed his hands at Jesus arraighment to symbolize his withdrawal from responsibility for whatever might happen to jesus ( Matt 2724). This practice was not new to him; undoubly it was a widespread custom. The Old testimate has many examples of ritual hand washing to symbolize innocence ( Psalm 266 and Deuteronomy 21 6-9). There is no change in Gods way. And God sent down the Torah and the Ingeel and gave David the Phalms.I pray that my Lord increase my knowledge and be paitent with us. But this is were I stand. Werever you go out, or wherever u may be set yourselves toward the Sacred Temple. Get there!
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O.K wakas, Even from ur understanding or interpretaion... Could it mean what you think it means,,but on the other hand could it also mean physical shaving the head too??? Could it be translated to one of the two? Meaning it either means dont shave ur head or it means what u think it means.... Or does it only mean what u think it means.
My proof is if there is a possibility that this can be physical. Then that is my proof. And ur proof is if it can mean otherwise then that is ur proof.
So are you able to translate it to were it can mean shave ur head?
Peace,,
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Of course it could mean shaving the head. It could also mean bopping your head from side to side and waving your hands in the air like you just dont care etc.
What I mean by the above comment is it could mean many things and it is a matter of weighing up the evidence and determining what is most likely. We cannot just pick and choose whatever meaning is theoretically possible and we definitely should not use our preconceived beliefs as a starting point then try to justify them even if no evidence exists or evidence is actually against them. This is not how the truth is determined.
Quite simply, assess how you arrived at the "shaving head" understanding, list the evidence and present it here. I have asked Layth to do the same.
Once done, this will allows us to determine the truth more accurately.
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Why are people going on about it being physical or not? Who said there was no physical element? Please link me to the specific article, maybe I've missed something.
Nearly everything we do has a physical element, because we use our body to do stuff.
I was questioning if it was literal because the term "sacred temple" is commonly used in christian writings to refer to the human body.
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Of course it could mean shaving the head.
O.K. so you admitted that it could mean shave the head. So what if this was it ( what it is most likely to mean) and /or one of Gods symbols and the people rejected it. For all this time, my question still remains, Why dont muslims observe the Hajj?
Why not we just do all of what you mentioned Why dont we not shave our heads untill we fullfile our duty and bop our heads for God and lift up our hands in the air in prayer?
Even with this being a mistranslation for all this time ( Generations ) the only knowlege that was really given of that verse is " Dont shave heads..ect... And with this being the only knowledge, Muslims still dint and dont observe Hajj.
The Quran clearly states that if one cannot make the visit to send a donation. And do not shave your heads till it reaches its destination. So why do muslims shave their heads when they have not completed the visit or sent a donation?
And were is this donation suppose to go? I would like to know. And why dont Muslims know the answer?
I dont see much efforts to even make hajj. Who said that it was only obligated for those who can afford it? I believ it is obligated on us all, rich or poor. God is owed by mankind to make the pilgrage. And whosoever rejects ,then God is the rich, the Praiseworthy.
God has gave us a Focal Point. Set urself towards the Sacred temple. And werever you go out, you shall set urselves towards it. And werever u may be set urselves towards it.
To the Sacred Temple is my focus.
And those who set up partners not go approach the Sacred temple after this year of theirs!
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peace AW,
The way you word your questions are unclear and unusual to me. Please try and be clearer.
Why dont muslims observe the Hajj?
Do you mean why dont Traditional Muslims observe the Quranic Hajj? (what hajj are you referring to?)
Even with this being a mistranslation for all this time ( Generations )
I dont know if it has been a mistranslation for so long, I haven't studied this aspect.
So why do muslims shave their heads when they have not completed the visit or sent a donation?
There is no shaving head according to The Quran, but for sake of argument, let's say there is, the most likely reason is they do not follow The Quran.
And were is this donation suppose to go? I would like to know. And why dont Muslims know the answer?
The donation goes to the authority associated with running the hajj/conference. Most Traditional Muslims have very little idea what The Quran says thus asking them for answers is probably not going to be fruitful.
You seem to be confusing the practice of Traditional Muslims related to hajj and what The Quran says about hajj. The two are different.
I repeat, there is no shaving head. Try the search function for past discussions on hajj.
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peace, alright ...
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Peace,
Of course I do. Do you have evidence to the contrary, or, must we resort to metephoric meanings?
Please bring forth this evidence for all to see.
And as for mine, here is some of it, already stated on this thread. I quote myself
Typing in "shave" in the search function for example brings up some past threads, one of which is
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8807.msg49208#msg49208Read in conjunction with
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9022.msg48647#msg48647 -
If one cannot make the visit then send a donation. And do not shave your heads till it reaches its destination.
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Sacred Dwelling; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing.
2232 Thus, and whoever honors the symbols of God, then it is from the piety of the hearts.
God is owed by mankind to make the pilgrage. And whosoever rejects ,then God is the rich, the Praiseworthy.
Thats all I know...
I am a clear warner.
