Who are the Brainwashed Disbelievers who think they are Believers (2-8 & 9)
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Peace Farida, and all
Salaam belalhammad
Please read (2- again it says Of the people there are some who say "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" but they do not believe
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not! (2-9)
As you can note these people do not realize that they do not believe (2-. They are brainwashed by their other books that were written by humans, which cancel out the True Book.
This sura is not referring to kind of people who say that they believe I understand this is about those who do not believe but show to be believers and stand on edge so that if there is actually God than they can get away with their acting .. they have so much faith in their deception they think they can deceive God too.
These are the disblievers who disbelieve that Quran or Torah or Bible are not the words of God; those were discribed by 2-6 & 7. Please note that there is a main difference between the two types, which is one type believes that the Quran, Bible, and Torah are the books of God but they do not follow and choose to follow their other books that were written by scholars, and the other does not recogize the Books at all.
The above two surah 2-8,9 appear to say what is said in 6 Surah Number 4, Ayah Number 142 about hypocrites that they do not remember Allah, except a little.
The hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but Allah is deceiving them. When they stand up to pray, they stand up lazily, showing off to the people and do not remember Allah, except a little,These type is the type that is mentioned in 2-8 & 9; as I told you, they believe in the Books, thus, they pray. But when praying, they do not understand what they recite (from Quran), because God increased their ignorance
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease and grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves). (2-10)
I will give you some examples of my understaning of third king here
Exp 1. I came across someone who was very particular about eating only halal meat but his source of earning was not halal as he used to take cash out without declaring and I asked ?why do you insist on eating halal meat when the money you use to buy this halal meat is not halal. Buying the meat you think is halal with haraam earnings actually makes the meat haraam. Shouldn?t you concentrate more on earning halal and then think of halal meat or just eat any meant? Typically I was ignored as i was going too much into the nitty gritty of things.
Exp 2. A proud Christian plumber came to do work at my place and he was showing off how he works on Sunday free for church, but otherwise he refuses to work on a Sunday. But this plumber did not finish his job as promised or at least not as I expected from a religious man. He was limping and asking for sympathy for him as he could not lift buckets but when I told him i have a big lead pipes lying around in the garden he quietly took it
The third example is of a Jewish guy; I bought some stuff from him from ebay and was very impressed to see that he had religious symbols on his house entrance and Shalom written there, but when it came to delivering his goods he was not fair. He gave such a hard time to his builders which in turned ruined my purchase but he insisted on charging full money for faulty goods.
So I think it is about these types who have a sort of belief but put up a big show thinking God will judge them by human standards.
Please do let me know if I make any sense.
peaceThese three examples will depend on what are in the heart of the three mentioned people; if they believe what they did from wrong is wrong and they try to ask for forgiveness ( True believers); or they think what they are doing is right according to their other religious teachings and they will not ask for forgiveness (the kind that is mentioned in 28 & 9); or they do not believe in the Verses that teach them not to do that (they will not ask for forgivness) (the type that is mentioned in 2-6 & 7)
I hope I'm not confusing you or anybody
Peace
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Peace all
In Chapter two, God describes a Third Kind of People (after the 1st that was described in verses 1 to 5, and the 2nd in 6 and 7) as follow
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Of the people there are some who say "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" but they do not believe (2-
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize not! (9)My Question is how somebody says that he believes in Allah and the Last Day is a Disbeliever of Allah and the Last Day?
I have an answer that I will share with you through this discussion when you share with me your views.Peace
If they willingly try to deceive Allah and believers by saying what they don't really believe in, they are hypocrites. If they say what they believe in then there is no question of willingly deceiving anyone thus not hypocrites. The verse is clearly about the munafiqeen and their purpose is deceiving by lip service.
fain /fe{I}n/ adv. (old use) willingly or with pleasure.
to hide or conceal willingly, to pretend sth while concealing the contrary.. etc..
peace
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If they willingly try to deceive Allah and believers by saying what they don't really believe in, they are hypocrites. If they say what they believe in then there is no question of willingly deceiving anyone thus not hypocrites. The verse is clearly about the munafiqeen and their purpose is deceiving by lip service.
fain /fe{I}n/ adv. (old use) willingly or with pleasure.
to hide or conceal willingly, to pretend sth while concealing the contrary.. etc..
peace
Peace,
Let me ask you question; if somebody (one of the Moslem Sects) says that he believes in Allah and the Last day in a way that is discribed in other books that were written by humans, which are different from the way that are discribed in the Quran (which he claims that he believes in willingly). And when you tell him your way of believing is wrong and you should follow the Straight Path (2-1 to 5), he would say that such way of believing is for the Fools who do not understand the Quran (he believes that Quran is not enough or the prophets had other revelation).When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" they say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, buy they do not know. (2-13)
What would you call that person? Because he is the one that God discribed in verse 2-8 to 20 (and in more than 95% of the Quran). I call him Hypocrate because he says what he does not do (he said that he believes in Quran but he does not follow)
Please note that my answer to my main Question is if you want to be a believer of the True Allah and the Last Day, you have to believe on them based on what has been revealed in Quran; and if one choose to Add over what in the Book, he or she will be believing in the Wrong God and the Last Day.
Peace -
Peace,
Let me ask you question; if somebody (one of the Moslem Sects) says that he believes in Allah and the Last day in a way that is discribed in other books that were written by humans, which are different from the way that are discribed in the Quran (which he claims that he believes in willingly). And when you tell him your way of believing is wrong and you should follow the Straight Path (2-1 to 5), he would say that such way of believing is for the Fools who do not understand the Quran (he believes that Quran is not enough or the prophets had other revelation).When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" they say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, buy they do not know. (2-13)
What would you call that person? Because he is the one that God discribed in verse 2-8 to 20 (and in more than 95% of the Quran). I call him Hypocrate because he says what he does not do (he said that he believes in Quran but he does not follow)
Please note that my answer to my main Question is if you want to be a believer of the True Allah and the Last Day, you have to believe on them based on what has been revealed in Quran; and if one choose to Add over what in the Book, he or she will be believing in the Wrong God and the Last Day.
PeaceSalam,
Yes, they will be professing to believe when you ask them, but their concept of Allah and the last day is different than ours because they also follow guidance other than Allah which distorts their minds by adding/subtracting to al-kitab of Allah.
Therefore they decieve themselves.Well done Belalhammad!
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
Yes, they will be professing to believe when you ask them, but their concept of Allah and the last day is different than ours because they also follow guidance other than Allah which distorts their minds by adding/subtracting to al-kitab of Allah.
Therefore they decieve themselves.Well done Belalhammad!
Salam,
ArnabPeace Arnab and All;
Thank you.Please note that in most of the Quran, God speaks about these people. These people are the worse, because they misrepresent Allah and his Religion and mislead the people who do not know the Book.
Peace -
Peace Farida, and all
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not! (2-9)
As you can note these people do not realize that they do not believe (2-. They are brainwashed by their other books that were written by humans, which cancel out the True Book.
These are the disblievers who disbelieve that Quran or Torah or Bible are not the words of God; those were discribed by 2-6 & 7. Please note that there is a main difference between the two types, which is one type believes that the Quran, Bible, and Torah are the books of God but they do not follow and choose to follow their other books that were written by scholars, and the other does not recogize the Books at all.These type is the type that is mentioned in 2-8 & 9; as I told you, they believe in the Books, thus, they pray. But when praying, they do not understand what they recite (from Quran), because God increased their ignorance
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease and grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves). (2-10)
These three examples will depend on what are in the heart of the three mentioned people; if they believe what they did from wrong is wrong and they try to ask for forgiveness ( True believers); or they think what they are doing is right according to their other religious teachings and they will not ask for forgiveness (the kind that is mentioned in 28 & 9); or they do not believe in the Verses that teach them not to do that (they will not ask for forgivness) (the type that is mentioned in 2-6 & 7)
I hope I'm not confusing you or anybody
Peace
Salaam
No you are not confusing me and I quite agree with your explaination but here the surah 29 saysFain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not!
This shows that they do infact believe in the existance of God, but their understanding of the Almighty is very limited so they think they can deceive God too like they deceive non believers but they will be recognised by the believers and, ofcourse they cannot deceive Allah at all.
So from what I understand is that you tries to deceive someone only when you are sure of their existance. ... Now I hope I am not confusing you.peace
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This shows that they do infact believe in the existance of God, but their understanding of the Almighty is very limited so they think they can deceive God too like they deceive non believers but they will be recognised by the believers and, ofcourse they cannot deceive Allah at all.
I agree that many people do not understand the unlimited power of God. They try and limit him not realising he can do anything he wishes.
691 And they did not appreciate God as He deserves to be appreciated, for they said ?God has never sent down anything to any human being.? Say ?Who then has sent down the Scripture which Moses had come with, a light and a guidance for the people? You treat it just as paper, you show some of it and conceal much, and you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew.? Say ?God has.? Then leave them playing in their folly.
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Salaam
No you are not confusing me and I quite agree with your explaination but here the surah 29 saysFain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not!
This shows that they do infact believe in the existance of God, but their understanding of the Almighty is very limited so they think they can deceive God too like they deceive non believers but they will be recognised by the believers and, ofcourse they cannot deceive Allah at all.
So from what I understand is that you tries to deceive someone only when you are sure of their existance. ... Now I hope I am not confusing you. Ppeace
Peace;
Those people think that when they do not believe as what are discribed in Quran, they can get away with it (they are deciving Allah and the believers). Let me give you an example of such people who a) believe in Allah, b) believe in the Last Day, and c) they follow books that were written by humans( ( ( ( ( (
Can ye (O ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you? Seeing that a party of them heard the word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it. (75) Behold! when they meet the men of Faith they say "We believe" but when they meet each other in private they say "Shall you tell them what Allah hath revealed to you that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?" Do ye not understand (their aim)? (76) Know they not that Allah knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? (77) And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. (7 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say "This is from Allah" to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby. (79) And they say "The fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days"; Say "Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His promise? Or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?" (2-80)
Please note that the bolded words are the same as in the thrid type (the one under question)
When they meet those who believe, they say "We believe" but when they are alone with their evil ones they say "We are really with you we; (were) only jesting. (2-14)
Please note how they are deceving the believers.
These people that God talks about (2-80)as an example of the thrid type (2-8 to 20) are a Sect from Jews; therefore, anybody do what they did he becomes from the Third Type.
I hope I'm making sense confused
I agree that many people do not understand the unlimited power of God. They try and limit him not realising he can do anything he wishes.
Peace aalmakto
I agree with you; these people are the same as God discribed in 2-8 & 9.
An example of such people are the Jews (not all, but a Sect) who are following their man made books and ignoring the Torah; and thus, they disblieved the Quran that came to tell them that they should stop following the man made books and believe in the Quran, the Torah, and the Bible.
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No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say "Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)" Say "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought? a light and guidance to man but ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents) therein were ye taught that which ye knew not neither ye nor your fathers." Say "Allah (sent it down)" then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (6-91)
The third type that I'm debating speaks about all the wicked "People of the Books" (Moslem Sects, Christain Sects, and Jews Sects) and not the ones who disblieve the existance of God and the Last day.
Peace
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When they meet those who believe, they say "We believe" but when they are alone with their evil ones they say "We are really with you we; (were) only jesting. (2-14)
Please note how they are deceving the believers.
Salaam
I am still learninga and as far as I can recall reading they try to deceive the believers but they think they succeeded in doing that but Allah reveals their acts to the believers and the believers are one party, they recognise their fellow believers as well as the hypocrites.The third type that I'm debating speaks about all the wicked "People of the Books" (Moslem Sects, Christian Sects, and Jews Sects) and not the ones who disblieve the existance of God and the Last day.
Peace
Is is same as the examples I quoted in my earlier reply post 10?
peace -
Salaam
I am still learninga and as far as I can recall reading they try to deceive the believers but they think they succeeded in doing that but Allah reveals their acts to the believers and the believers are one party, they recognise their fellow believers as well as the hypocrites.Yes peace
Is is same as the examples I quoted in my earlier reply post 10?
peaceIt will depend on if he recognizes that he is Sining or not. You have to understand that believers Committ Sin, but they understand that what they are doing is Sin.
( ( ( (
Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous, (133) Those who spend (freely) whether in prosperity or in adversity; who restrain anger and pardon (all) men; for Allah loves those who do good, (134) And those who having done Sins (Fahesha) of, or wronged their own souls earnestly bring Allah to mind; and ask for forgiveness for their sins,and who can forgive sins except Allah?,And are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done. (135) For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord and gardens with rivers flowing underneath an eternal dwelling; how excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)! (3-136)
But The other kind do not recognize that they are Sining (Code 19ers who delete Quran Verses, for example, or Stoning to Death, or saying that Jesus is God, etc)
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When they committ a Sin (Fahesha), they say "We found our fathers doing so"; and "Allah commanded us thus" say "Nay, Allah never commands what is shameful do ye say of Allah what ye know not?" (2 Say "My Lord hath commanded justice (The Book); and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in his sight such as he created you in the beginning, so shall ye return." (7-29)
Peace
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Yes peace
But The other kind do not recognize that they are Sining (Code 19ers who delete Quran Verses, for example, or Stoning to Death, or saying that Jesus is God, etc)Peace
Salaam,
The problem with code 19?s advocates is that the holy book/s have not touched their hearts and they are in doubt as to its authenticity.. What is missing is the very first stage of belief ...24 those who believe in the unseen..... They rely on visual methods to try to convince themselves and since they do not believe in the very first stage they will have problems progressing to the next stages.
To me they are those referred to as? the confused ones? and yes they do fall into this third kind group. Hypocrites I believe too come under this banner they are singled out in the later stages of the book in order to warn believers who may fall for their wicked act, but on the whole they come under this third kind.
peace -
Salaam,
The problem with code 19?s advocates is that the holy book/s have not touched their hearts and they are in doubt as to its authenticity.. What is missing is the very first stage of belief ...24 those who believe in the unseen..... They rely on visual methods to try to convince themselves and since they do not believe in the very first stage they will have problems progressing to the next stages.
To me they are those referred to as? the confused ones? and yes they do fall into this third kind group. Hypocrites I believe too come under this banner they are singled out in the later stages of the book in order to warn believers who may fall for their wicked act, but on the whole they come under this third kind.
peacePeace,
And for those type, the Thrid, they Believe in Allah and The Unseen (The Last Day, Angels, etc) in a wrong way; thus, they are unbeliever of the True Allah (the one discribed in the Book), which was my main point of this Thread. And to put it in other serious words They are Worshiping (Obeying) Partners, whom they made, beside Allah by following their teachings that differ from Allah's.
I hope you and everybody understand how I came to this conclusion.
Peace
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Peace,
And to put it in other serious words They are Worshiping (Obeying) Partners, whom they made, beside Allah by following their teachings that differ from Allah's.
Peace
Salaam
That makes them Mushriq and, according to my understanding Mushriq and Munafiqoon are in the same category, as one takes partners to God and the others take the world aound them as more powerful than God.
peace -
Salaam
That makes them Mushriq and, according to my understanding Mushriq and Munafiqoon are in the same category, as one takes partners to God and the others take the world aound them as more powerful than God.
peacePeace,
If you look at My signtuer you will note that anybody associate (add man made teachings) to God's Religion more what have been discribed in the Book, he or she fall in Shirk (Associating Lies).
handshake