Why were these unique versions of the Qur'an later destroyed by fire?
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Just pondering (not disputing ;D), If the original Quran is with Him then the Quran in this world now is what? not original? semi original? false? corrupted? How do you discern the original version and not original version? This thread is discussing this... I don't think they're disputing it....
What say you?
Salam,
The misunderstanding comes from the fact that "Qura" means to call out/recite etc.
The revealation given to Muhammad in book form is called The Quran.
The original recitation (Quran) is with Allah. You have what was given to Muhammad in book form which is called "The Quran."
Salam,
Arnab -
I see what you mean now. But how would that solve the bloodshed problem? If i'm not mistaken the two verse is not the root cause of their bloodshed. I think you know that.
You pointed out 319. and it clearly says
319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Scripture did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects God?s signs, then God is swift in judgment.
This is the root cause IMHO. Not the two verses. Both groups including other groups (maybe this group too?) think they're better than others. Judging others as if they know better than God. If one if egoistic enough they will not notice this kind of thing no matter how much we suggest to them. Bringing the two verses issue will also light up more fire than extinguishing it. Don't you think it is like this my friend?
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad news
As soon as you accept you submit to God Alone ?Submission? you loose your ex belief brand name, ??..sunni, hanafi?..jafari, shis, bahaie??
But being a Muslim ?submitter? based on Quran needs proof for the book . Verses context for protection and securing it can not be seen and is like a human wrote unless we have solid proof that Quran is not manipulated like previous one.
Certainly its Arabic Excellency rhyme style in its time and for its location (Arab?s Communities and only those well educated can read and see text miracle can not be work of Mohammed, Some Iranian say it is work of Salman Farsi which may the verse indicate somebody else is writing those messages links to this rumor in that time. Took 1400 years until they come with such imitation.
http//suralikeit.com
BUT if this forging was done 1400 years ago then we had another Quran and which one is original is like peace of yellow metal . It has to go trough examination to find which piece is gold.
Human never has such an ability to examine God?s words and God knew that . He embedded into his word with pointing their secrecy of book . He placed tool for such examination and revealed to the one had enough knowledge to use computer and the time that this screen is transmitting it to whole world.
That is Miracle of this era sitting at you room and quietly study it examine and enjoy it, enjoy the greatness of God in His wisdom and greatness of His design which the most knowledgeable mathematician equipped with most advanced CAD are not able to imitate a simple one.
When first time that forged Quran was published was big news and Mohammedan asked for banning it but we Miracle believers laugh at it do not function and cannot pass code examination.
Without computer we can not see this securing and protecting system spreading all over whole book in a symmetrically method with their own consistency in groups.. So now we have this proof and clearly shows that 2 verses has been added to book.
Believing In such fact is end of any dispute and bloodshed because it removed and we have no argument about it. But jealousy comes from of all corrupted belief ( Mostly clergies and scholar which loose their jobs) including Sunni, shia against such proof . Because they have to close all those religions schools and like me and you read God?s messages directly on this screen. Now which messages? Those that have proof.
Thin for moment if those people killing each other were into discussing and search like us here was there any bloodshed?
Certainly there are many educated one that have been brain washed with their parent belief but now is time to examine it and follow what you can verify it 1736
knowledge + ego + confusion + judgment + force = bad newsknowledge can be following our ancestors knowledge and do try to if their knowledge was right?
Ego is part of any human, many of us try to avoid it but how far we can depends on situation and our environment.
Human never has flawless judgment and that is most destructive element.
Unfortunately force has been there and would be to end of this illusion.
Force can be physically to cause pain or can be hide into satnic desires forcing us toward negative path..We people discuss the issue peacefully and we never do suicide bombers action . It that right my friend?
Peace. -
Allah is the best teacher.
Indeed Allah is the best teacher... not Quran entirely IMHO. There is somewhat a mixtures of truth and falsehood which creates confusion. If not, why the disputes? maybe God wants to show something...
I like to chart the flow of how the information is compiled (this is just a rough sketch). For clarification... I hope you guys can help too. Let's fill in the blanks together shall we?....
Allah --o---> Gabriel ----o--> Muhammad --o--> Leafs, Skins, Rocks --o--> Compiled by --o--> Zaid & Uthman ---------o---> Con't
\ / \ / \ /
o--> Other --o o-----> Followers ----o o--> Any other Parties? --o
Spirit(s)? MemoryCon't --> Dispute on --o--> Uthman Version -------------------------------o--o--> Gold Quran ----> Now Quran
Authority \ / \ Declared as
o--> Ali Version?**--------o---> Disqualified? --o \ Original? *
\ /
o--> Other Version? --o o--> All references
\ were burnt?
o--> Or is it Hidden? ***- I just stop at Gold Quran since it was agreed that that is the original one. There's no dispute after that (right?) other than on Hadiths and Rashad Khalifa's discovery...
** I take it as this is Shiite version... I forgot the name of the Imam...
*** Vatican likes to collect artifacts... They have their own personal library.... This is esoteric stuff. Rumors has it that Vatican is controlling Islam... I can't prove that... google it...
There's a lot of levels don't you think? There should be a possibility that it could be tampered right? But of course we should believe that it is protected (or maybe we are suggested that it is protected? hmm) ... but what if the one that is protected only is the one that is with Allah. Like Arnab said. Not the current one... What do you guys think?
Peace
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Your question is very bad.
I did not know that ?
Why is bad.?
Finding the truth and fact is bad?
Do you read Quran carefully?
Have you read 1736?
I am doing according to God?s message and do not care you or your teachers which have given you wrong information do not like it.Quran means that which is spoken by Allah. When Allah makes qara'a, that is Quran. How can you burn words from someone mouth?
God is not human to speak with different voice and different language. The word of God is not in any form of human ability like walking, speaking, eating ?. it is inspired to chosen one by spiritual communication is trough brain and not physical, But for first time these words was scribed by prophet trough inspiration on materials which can be burn..
Scriber or later scribers mistake knowingly or not , willingly or not can change the words as written with ink on any inflammable material.Please ask intelligent questions.
Instead of such statement use your brain and find the fact.
Peace. -
Salam bahman. Please ask yourself the following. Are you an argumentative person?
I said your question is bad. Instead of going back to your question and examining it to look for what I am talking about, You ask me why is it bad. The answer to why is it bad was in my next sentence. I said you cannot burn a spoken word. Quran is the spoken word of Allah.
You want to find the truth? The truth is you do not know the meanings of the words you write. You do not know that Quran is the spoken word. You say things like do you read Quran. How can you read a spoken word? You can read a Kitaab, you cannot read a Quran. You can hear a Quran.
Allah is all powerful. Allah can use a voice and different language if he so chooses, your words cannot take away from the power of Allah to do as he chooses. Scribes did not write a Quran, scribes wrote a Kitaab.
You can use your brain like any kafir, munafiq, and mushrik. They use their brain a lot and go further astray. Learn to submit your rebellious brain to the words of Allah.
Allah is mighty wise.
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Peace Bahman,
Peace Samia and thank you for your note. I am learning and sometime Iam slow, Now I understnd that Ayman means no phisical focal point just
Such obedience should be based on what source?The source is clearly given in 2142-150. The source is the truth from our lord. The truth from our lord is everywhere and not only in the great reading. How do you think people obeyed the god before the great reading?
Reality is the truth and it is truth with or without humankind. The god created everything with the truth. Falsehood only exists in our imagnination. It is not real. This is what the great reading tells us.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace
Would you explain that more please . How we can hear Quran
Peace.Salam,
Quran means recitation/to call out and the like....not "writing."
You cannot burn a recitation, since a recitation is a spoken word. Something that comes out of one's mouth.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
Quran means recitation/to call out and the like....not "writing."
You cannot burn a recitation, since a recitation is a spoken word. Something that comes out of one's mouth.
Salam,
ArnabPeace.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the written Scripture, the composed reading ("al-Kitaab", not the actual recitation. It is referred to in many different forms throughout the Scripture, including it being referred to by God (Allah) as a "Light", "Reminder", "Reading", "Book", "Scripture", etc... Well, of course, there's no way to burn a "light" or a "reminder" - but that doesn't mean you can't burn the written form of that Scripture. So, yes, the original "recitation" is with God, but it was sent down to us as a reminder and written down - it is still the recitation of God, just in a written format. When the question was asked about burning the "quran", I'm pretty sure he was referring to the written form of the "quran"...
Peace,
Ahmad -
Peace.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the written Scripture, the composed reading ("al-Kitaab", not the actual recitation. It is referred to in many different forms throughout the Scripture, including it being referred to by God (Allah) as a "Light", "Reminder", "Reading", "Book", "Scripture", etc... Well, of course, there's no way to burn a "light" or a "reminder" - but that doesn't mean you can't burn the written form of that Scripture. So, yes, the original "recitation" is with God, but it was sent down to us as a reminder and written down - it is still the recitation of God, just in a written format. When the question was asked about burning the "quran", I'm pretty sure he was referring to the written form of the "quran"...
Peace,
AhmadPeace.
Thank you that is clear , it remind my own words which I was using it a signature for while.
?Words can be censored not the thought. ?
So you agree that the words of thought are recorded on material can be burn. Now do you know why Original copy of these thought was burned ?
Peace. -
Assalaamu wa alaikum
We can argue forever.
The question remains where is the original quran.
Does the saudi government have possession of even older manuscripts and are they hiding it.Surely, those who conceal what God has sent down of the Scripture, and they purchase with it a cheap price; they will not eat in their stomachs except the Fire, and God will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution. (2174)
It can also be argued that quran may be changed because of the following ayat
So woe to those who write the Scripture with their hands then say ?This is from God,? so that they can seek a cheap gain! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained. (279)
Writing with their own hands can mean adding verses, in reference to the controversy of the last two verses of sura 9.
In both ayats the word used is kitab. The quran is also kitab. Can these verses refer to the quran?
WHERE IS THE ORIGINAL?
If the saudis have it, its about time.
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You do not know that Quran is the spoken word. You say things like do you read Quran. How can you read a spoken word? You can read a Kitaab, you cannot read a Quran. You can hear a Quran.
Allah is all powerful. Allah can use a voice and different language if he so chooses, your words cannot take away from the power of Allah to do as he chooses. Scribes did not write a Quran, scribes wrote a Kitaab.
You can use your brain like any kafir, munafiq, and mushrik. They use their brain a lot and go further astray.
Learn to submit your rebellious brain to the words of Allah.Allah is mighty wise.
BEAUTIFULLY SAID bravo bravo bravo
thats was more of spritual response,...... as for the quran was burnt, i beleive the original quran as in the book was
burnt, from my understanding...and yes the quran will always be protected, more in the hearts of those who want gods light then actually the book itself, yes god said he will protect the quran and he has
lets say someone comes today and adds to the quran and makes millions of copies whats to stop him. then the quran is no longer protected, but wait IT IS protected BECAUSE GOD HAS A SYSTEM THAT WILL PROTECT IT....... lmudathir -
Dear Friends,
Everyone can make stories but no one can produce authenticated copy with differences even by the major sects who differ in their ideology very much but still they do not differ in the manuscript. This is the simple fact and to me a miracle. Believe it or reject it.
Regards.
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Peace pvb,
I know Quran only people do not follow hadith because they are not from Allah.
That does not mean it isn't a fact that happened in history.
This is absolutely correct. Instead of saying they disbelieve in everything that has the word "hadiyth" above it, they should get all their RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE from the Quran alone. Just because it's written in the ahadith and sunna doesn't mean the information isn't historically correct.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Apply scientific method
-Experiment what it says
-See the results
If the results are same as AQ claims, it proves everything otherwise nothing, in both cases code19 is useless.I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws. Einstein
That's quite interesting except that the end of your 'experiment' is Judgment Day, by then it will be too late for you to decide to become a believer and follow God's message in the Qur'an. In fact the Qur'an has many Surah passages that refer to Judgment Day. One of my favorites is 262 (taken from Muhammad Asad's English translation of 'The Message of the Qur'an)
Verily, those who have attained to faith , as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians* -- all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds -- shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.***Sabians are most likely followers of John the Baptist
**(from Asad) The above passage -- which recurs in the Qur'an several times -- lays down a fundamental doctrine of Islam. With a breadth of vision unparalleled in any other religious faith, the idea of "salvation" is here made conditional upon three elements only belief in God, belief in the Day of Judgment, and righteous action in life.Truly Islam is God's final revealed message and is meant to complete or restore the messages that we have from the Torah and Bible, yet God is not shutting out the righteous who believe in Him and His Day of Judgment and who do good works while on Earth. I am sorry that Einstein failed to see that the beautiful, immutable laws of physics were made by a powerful God believed in by Muslims, Jews and Christians alike. We were all given free will and we have been given this so that we might choose to live righteously and do good works and grow closer to God so that in His infinite Compassion and Mercy He will choose to bring us with Him to Heaven or we mistakenly choose otherwise.
Salaam alaikum