Was the Qur'an the Only Revelation That The Prophet Received From Allah
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Salam Brother,
When ever we say somthing as a scientific evidence ,we are not the one who does the research or we personally haven't look , smell or feel it.We trust the person who did the research and we accept it.We simply believe that its true because so many people have evidence the research likewise the hadhis are also preserved in a very scientific manner,its just been not bring up to the western world.You have mention a book (the omega point theory) you were not there when it was return or when he made the research or you are not a part in any of his creation then why to believe that book.The chain of narration , the history of the people who narrated , The recording of every hadhis is very much scientific.
Inshallaha i will reply the rest in my next post, since i am bit busy with my work i am not able to reply immediate.
On the contrary, the 'hadith' were not collected until Caliph Hisham ordered a religious leader to do so. Before they were prohibited. The religious leader did so reluctantly. I advise you read the book reviewed here
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm
Most scholars of Islamic history that I have encountered view them as frauds (Crone, Hoyland, Aisha Musa).There are heaps of problems you have yet to counter (history, the Quran, hadith with are stupid, hadith which prevent the recording of hadith, hadith which contradict the Quran), except with an extremely tedious argument that diverts around what the Quran says and replaces it with your opinion.
Following 'hadith' has no Quranic or historical basis.
Good luck with finding the truth (as I have said before, you are beginning to ask yourself these questions or else you would not be here).
Roshan
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Peace "albruni",
Salam Brother,
When ever we say somthing as a scientific evidence ,we are not the one who does the research or we personally haven't look , smell or feel it.We trust the person who did the research and we accept it.We simply believe that its true because so many people have evidence the research likewise the hadhis are also preserved in a very scientific manner,its just been not bring up to the western world.You have mention a book (the omega point theory) you were not there when it was return or when he made the research or you are not a part in any of his creation then why to believe that book.The chain of narration , the history of the people who narrated , The recording of every hadhis is very much scientific.
JK- This is TOTALLY INCORRECT. Nobody believes what scientists tell us BASED ON TRUST ALONE. Infact their results are published in journals WHICH EVERY LAYMAN can watch, accept if he wills and deny it if he/she fells theres something wrong with it. What rational people do though is compare the findings with other independent researchers and see whether theres a conversion of evidence. Thats exactly what i did whilst reading the "omega point theory". It matched with my own independent research and that of some other bros here including bro "Arnold Yasin". Regarding hadith what weve heard so far from you is very far from science.
Inshallaha i will reply the rest in my next post, since i am bit busy with my work i am not able to reply immediate.
JK- Ill be waiting GW. GOD Bless!
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Peace "albruni",
JK- This is TOTALLY INCORRECT. Nobody believes what scientists tell us BASED ON TRUST ALONE. Infact their results are published in journals WHICH EVERY LAYMAN can watch, accept if he wills and deny it if he/she fells theres something wrong with it. What rational people do though is compare the findings with other independent researchers and see whether theres a conversion of evidence. Thats exactly what i did whilst reading the "omega point theory". It matched with my own independent research and that of some other bros here including bro "Arnold Yasin". Regarding hadith what weve heard so far from you is very far from science.
JK- Ill be waiting GW. GOD Bless!
Assalamualaikum,
Brother JK so far what we both agreed is that Prophet has received other revelation than quran but you don?t want to add those revaluations to quran because you don?t find any solid proof for it........ But those who can read this discussion can clearly understand that I have shown sufficient proof for the authenticity for the hadhis
461 -- When it is said to them "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle" Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.
I see you avert with disgust when I say Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle
4150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
And you say you believe in some and disbelieve in some, desiring to adopt a way in between this and that
Quran says Moses as messenger though he died alike Mohammed is also the messenger till the world end.
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Salaam,
First I want to say, that I don't accept these hadith because I feel they distract from the REAL message.
Secondly, what is the point of having both authentic and weak hadith (for the ones who follow them)?
What was the purpose of collecting and putting to print the weak hadith in the first place?
Peace,
dotty -
Salaam,
First I want to say, that I don't accept these hadith because I feel they distract from the REAL message.
Secondly, what is the point of having both authentic and weak hadith (for the ones who follow them)?
What was the purpose of collecting and putting to print the weak hadith in the first place?
Peace,
dottySalam,
Good question. I've wondered that as well. If they consider it weak....why do they still reference it?
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "albruni",
Assalamualaikum,
Brother JK so far what we both agreed is that Prophet has received other revelation than quran but you don?t want to add those revaluations to quran because you don?t find any solid proof for it........ But those who can read this discussion can clearly understand that I have shown sufficient proof for the authenticity for the hadhis
461 -- When it is said to them "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle" Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.
I see you avert with disgust when I say Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle
4150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
And you say you believe in some and disbelieve in some, desiring to adopt a way in between this and that
Quran says Moses as messenger though he died alike Mohammed is also the messenger till the world end.
JK- No verses youve quoted show that wer to follow extra Quranic ahadith. Infact the Quran already mentions the relevant and authentic sayings of the messenger one of which is
The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have made this Quran of no account."
THUS if you want to follow the messenger youd have to look into the Quran TOO and not extra Quranic sources. The same is true if you want to look at all the relevant hadith of various other messengers mentioned in the Quran WHICH HAVE ALSO BEEN CITED IN THE QURAN. We dont need to go to other sources for that either. GOD Bless! -
First I want to say, that I don't accept these hadith because I feel they distract from the REAL message.
Salam Brother,
Hadith are not to distract from the REAL message but to explain it more clearly for E.g. (Sala)
Secondly, what is the point of having both authentic and weak hadith (for the ones who follow them)?
What was the purpose of collecting and putting to print the weak hadith in the first place?
It?s a very scientific way to protect the Hadith. Only when they have recorded both the authentic and weak Hadith nobody can add new Hadith, moreover when the record a weak Hadith they have mentioned why it?s weak, with that we can also check the biography of the narrators to see the authenticity
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Peace "albruni",
JK- No verses youve quoted show that wer to follow extra Quranic ahadith. Infact the Quran already mentions the relevant and authentic sayings of the messenger one of which is
The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have made this Quran of no account."
THUS if you want to follow the messenger youd have to look into the Quran TOO and not extra Quranic sources. The same is true if you want to look at all the relevant hadith of various other messengers mentioned in the Quran WHICH HAVE ALSO BEEN CITED IN THE QURAN. We dont need to go to other sources for that either. GOD Bless!Salam jonny,
Once again for your reference I will quote it again
The task of the Prophet to deliver and explain Clearly
"And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them."
"Allah did confer a great favour on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." .
We can not limit the Prophethood to 23 years because Quran syas
"We did not send you except as Mercy for all creatures."
"We have not sent you except as a Messenger to all mankind, giving them glad tidings and warning them against sin."
If we disobey Allaha (Quran) and His Messenger (Explanation) we will be in wrong path because Qran says so
"If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path."
"He that obeys Allah and His Messenger has already attained the great victory." .
Indeed he our beloved messenger will say that because you have disobey Quran by disobeying the Hadhis
(2527)The day will come when the transgressor will bite his hands (in anguish) and say, "Alas, I wish I had followed the path with the messenger.
461 -- When it is said to them "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle" Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.
4150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
May God Guide us in the right path...
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Salam Brother,
Hadith are not to distract from the REAL message but to explain it more clearly for E.g. (Sala)
Salam,
What you call "explaining" I call ADDING to the word of Allah.
Salam,
Arnab -
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Peace "albruni",
Salam jonny,
Once again for your reference I will quote it again
The task of the Prophet to deliver and explain Clearly
"And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them."
"Allah did confer a great favour on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." .
JK- Yes and the messenger's explanations which are also GOD inspired ARE IN THE QURAN. Examples
They ask you about the phases of the moon! SAY, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed.
They ask you about menstruation SAY, "It is harmful; you shall avoid sexual intercourse with the women during menstruation; do not approach them until they are rid of it. Once they are rid of it, you may have intercourse with them in the manner designed by GOD. GOD loves the repenters, and He loves those who are clean."Example of statements being further explained
Say(messenger is to say), "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat* of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.Verse is further detailed by this verse which is logically also uttered via mouth of messenger inspired by GOD
Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.
We can not limit the Prophethood to 23 years because Quran syas
"We did not send you except as Mercy for all creatures."
"We have not sent you except as a Messenger to all mankind, giving them glad tidings and warning them against sin."
JK- Yes the Quran is for all times and contains all the relevant statements uttered by the messenger. In his ordinary life Muhammad even uttered false statements like in 3337 saying "keep your wife". Also the word "'alameen" only refers to all the people whilst the person is living. Here examples from the Quran
The angels said, "O Mary, GOD has chosen you and purified you. He has chosen you from all the women(nisaa minal ALAMEEN).
So does it mean Mary was even better than the Prophet's wives?
Or
And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people(alal ALAMEEN).
This verse which starts from verse 83 in context does NOT include Muhammad so are all these Prophets greater than him?
OR
Peace be upon Noah amongst all the peoples(ALAMEEN).
So does it mean Noah is blessed even more than Muhammad?If we disobey Allaha (Quran) and His Messenger (Explanation) we will be in wrong path because Qran says so
"If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path."
"He that obeys Allah and His Messenger has already attained the great victory." .
Indeed he our beloved messenger will say that because you have disobey Quran by disobeying the Hadhis
(2527)The day will come when the transgressor will bite his hands (in anguish) and say, "Alas, I wish I had followed the path with the messenger.
461 -- When it is said to them "Come to what God hath revealed, and to the Apostle" Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.
4150-151 -- Those who disbelieve in All?h and His Messengers, and desire to make separation between All?h and His Messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in some," desiring to adopt a way in between this and that? those are the unbelievers in truth; and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
May God Guide us in the right path...
JK- Following the messenger is following his true statements which we know for sure he made as a messenger being inspired by GOD and those are ONLY TO BE FOUND in the Quran. As to the rest of the hadith GOD says
The revelation of this scripture is from GOD, the Almighty, Most Wise.
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These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In WHICH HADITH other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?WHICH HADITH, other than this, do they uphold?
GOD Bless!
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Peace "albruni",
Salam ,
Yes its adding to the word of allah by allah because quran say so
531,2,3 - your companion is neither astray, neither errs, nor does he speak out of desire
Peace
JK- 531,2,3 is only in reference to Muhammad being a messenger and all relevant statements he made as a messenger for all times are only to be found in the Quran as ive stated before. The Quran makes this clear in the following verse
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD....GOD Bless!
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Hadith are not to distract from the REAL message but to explain it more clearly for E.g. (Sala)
GOD thus explains His revelations for you, that you may understand
We thus explain the revelations, and point out the ways of the wicked.
This is the straight path to your Lord. We have explained the revelations for people who take heed.
We thus explain the revelations, to enable the people to redeem themselves
What do these verses mean to you? Is it not clear that GOD is the One who explains?
It?s a very scientific way to protect the Hadith. Only when they have recorded both the authentic and weak Hadith nobody can add new Hadith, moreover when the record a weak Hadith they have mentioned why it?s weak, with that we can also check the biography of the narrators to see the authenticity
This is a scientific way to protect the hadith? So my neighbor said, that her friend said, that her uncle told her, that his boss told him, that last week he heard about it from a grocer, etc. etc. Now, keep in mind that my neighbor is righteous. I know that for sure. And, I think her friend is pretty good, and her uncle, maybe. I don't know about the boss and the grocer is a total stranger. Where is the authenticity?
Peace,
dotty -
Peace "albruni",
JK- Yes and the messenger's explanations which are also GOD inspired ARE IN THE QURAN. Examples
They ask you about the phases of the moon! SAY, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed.
They ask you about menstruation SAY, "It is harmful; you shall avoid sexual intercourse with the women during menstruation; do not approach them until they are rid of it. Once they are rid of it, you may have intercourse with them in the manner designed by GOD. GOD loves the repenters, and He loves those who are clean."Example of statements being further explained
Say(messenger is to say), "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat* of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.Verse is further detailed by this verse which is logically also uttered via mouth of messenger inspired by GOD
Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.
Salam Jonney,
Why are you wasting time in righting thing which we both agree ??? I never denied that Quran explains certain thing but the same Quran also referring to prophet for more details
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is We who will explain it.Allah says in the Qur'an (Surah 751 that the Qur'an will be recited. But then in the verse right after (verse 119) it is also said that then the Qur'an will be explained. If the Qur'an is self-explanatory then the only thing that needs to be done is reciting it out. However, in verse 19 the function of reciting is done and then in the verse right after, the function of explaining is done. Clearly these are two different tasks, which means that just reading the Qur'an alone does not give you the full explanation required. It has to be explained through some other source. What is that other source?
JK- Yes the Quran is for all times and contains all the relevant statements uttered by the messenger. In his ordinary life Muhammad even uttered false statements like in 3337 saying "keep your wife". Also the word "'alameen" only refers to all the people whilst the person is living. Here examples from the Quran
Yes he did say 3337 but it has been corrected by almighty god and this is the proof that Allaha will not let him in the same state. I have already explain this two times let me tell you for the third time "In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs. But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.
The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.
Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act."
- What do you mean "whilst the person is living" if he is alameen when he is alive then he will be alameen after his death as well because after he dies he cant do bad deeds.
The angels said, "O Mary, GOD has chosen you and purified you. He has chosen you from all the women(nisaa minal ALAMEEN).
So does it mean Mary was even better than the Prophet's wives?
Or
And Ismail, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each of these we distinguished over all the people(alal ALAMEEN).
This verse which starts from verse 83 in context does NOT include Muhammad so are all these Prophets greater than him?
OR
Peace be upon Noah amongst all the peoples(ALAMEEN).
So does it mean Noah is blessed even more than Muhammad?Yes Mary is better than the prophet's wives and all the messengers are alameen by the grace of god we are not suppose to distinguish between them except in which god has uphold.
JK- Following the messenger is following his true statements which we know for sure he made as a messenger being inspired by GOD and those are ONLY TO BE FOUND in the Quran. As to the rest of the hadith GOD says
The revelation of this scripture is from GOD, the Almighty, Most Wise.
...
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In WHICH HADITH other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?WHICH HADITH, other than this, do they uphold?
GOD Bless!
You are referring to the verses which talk about the followers who believe in there ancients and not following the word of god. what you fail to understand is God refers to follow the messenger which is also reveled by god
In 592 it says "Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil) if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."
In 6412 it says "And obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, then Our Messenger is responsible only for conveying the Message clearly."The Prophet not only has to deliver the message but he has to deliver it clearly. The Arabs can understand the Quran as it's in there own language but still it's been said to convey clearly because obviously the Prophet had to explain it to them and elaborate it to the people just as the next two verses indicate...
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Peace "albruni",
JK- 531,2,3 is only in reference to Muhammad being a messenger and all relevant statements he made as a messenger for all times are only to be found in the Quran as ive stated before. The Quran makes this clear in the following verse
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD....GOD Bless!
I have explaind this in my resent post ........
Quran says Moses as messenger though he died and Mohammed is also the messenger till the world end.
Even you agreed that he recived other than quran from god , then why you are not willing to follow it???God Bless
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Peace "albruni",
Salam Jonney,
Why are you wasting time in righting thing which we both agree ??? I never denied that Quran explains certain thing but the same Quran also referring to prophet for more details
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is We who will explain it.JK- These verses youve quoted only show that GOD will explain and His explanations are IN THE QURAN. Theres NO EVIDENCE for His true explanations to be in hadith but theres tons of evidence that hadith contains a load of bs.
Allah says in the Qur'an (Surah 751 that the Qur'an will be recited. But then in the verse right after (verse 119) it is also said that then the Qur'an will be explained. If the Qur'an is self-explanatory then the only thing that needs to be done is reciting it out. However, in verse 19 the function of reciting is done and then in the verse right after, the function of explaining is done. Clearly these are two different tasks, which means that just reading the Qur'an alone does not give you the full explanation required. It has to be explained through some other source. What is that other source?
JK- Was the Quran revealed all at once? Ofcourse not. So part of it was recited and then later other recitations explained those previous recitations and later all those were compiled into the Book known as Quran which was protected by GOD.
Yes he did say 3337 but it has been corrected by almighty god and this is the proof that Allaha will not let him in the same state.
JK- Yes GOD corrected him but AFTER Muhammad had already made the mistake and uttered a false phrase. Hadith collectors couldve taken up phrases from Muhammad which they didnt notice were later corrected by GOD too. Thats why we find hadith full of nonsense and absurdities. The list is long.
I have already explain this two times let me tell you for the third time "In some cases, however, the origin of the orders is not a revelation. They are based originally on the Holy Prophet's own analysis of the affairs. But they are confirmed by a revelation later on. This confirmation again is of two kinds sometimes it occurs in explicit terms, whereby the decision of the Holy Prophet is upheld by a revelation, and sometimes it happens to be an implied confirmation. If Allah Almighty does not object to a certain act of the Holy Prophet, it necessarily implies that the act has been confirmed by Him.
JK- Lemme ask you somethng. How do you know the Prophet said something that is not mentioned in the Quran? Were you there? Do you have archaelogical evidence to support it? If there was a 100% preserved hadith scripture besides the Quran with no absurdities in it THEN id have beleived that those are truly the inspired statements of the prophet too BUT tht is simply not the case.
The reason is obvious. A prophet of Allah, being a spokesman of His pleasure, remains under a constant divine supervision. If he says something or does something, which is not in complete consonance with Allah?s pleasure, he is always warned about it. In a number of verses, the Holy Qur?an has expressed Allah?s disapproval of some acts done or intended by the Holy Prophet. Thus, no act of the Holy Prophet has ever gone unchecked.
JK- This is true but it doesnt say show that hadith literature has by any means been preserved by GOD and hence cannot be meant as a source for our guidance. Moreover your admitting here that Muhammad did mistakes, something which sunnis/shias and all hadith followers disagree with because they
call all prophets as "masoom" or innocent.Thus, whatever he says or does in his capacity of a messenger, and no revelation comes to the contrary, it is deemed to be an implied confirmation of his saying or act."
JK- hadith followers say prophet cannot make a mistake. Strangely you admit that he can.
- What do you mean "whilst the person is living" if he is alameen when he is alive then he will be alameen after his death as well because after he dies he cant do bad deeds.
JK- I meant that Prophet Muhammad, the person, could not have been the center of focus for all times BUT THE MESSAGE. Otherwise GOD wouldve kept him alive forever so that thred be no confusion in regards to his actions. 2ndly my examples showed that if you take the word "'alamenn" to refer to all nations in all times THEN in order to be consistent youll have to agree that Maryam was greater than Muhammad's wives and Noah was blessed more by GOD than Muhammad.
Yes Mary is better than the prophet's wives and all the messengers are alameen by the grace of god we are not suppose to distinguish between them except in which god has uphold.
JK- Again your disagreeing with the majority of hadithists. I have never heard of any hadithist saying that Maryam is better than the Prophets wives. BUT ok what about the verse which says that Noah be blessed amongst "'alameen". Do you say hes more blessed than Muhammad? Common now.
You are referring to the verses which talk about the followers who believe in there ancients and not following the word of god. what you fail to understand is God refers to follow the messenger which is also reveled by god
In 592 it says "Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil) if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner."
In 6412 it says "And obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, then Our Messenger is responsible only for conveying the Message clearly."JK- Do you think that following the alleged sayings of Muhammad is following the messenger? If you do then your delusional. The true statements of Muhammad as a messenger ARE DOCUMENTED IN THE QURAN.
The Prophet not only has to deliver the message but he has to deliver it clearly. The Arabs can understand the Quran as it's in there own language but still it's been said to convey clearly because obviously the Prophet had to explain it to them and elaborate it to the people just as the next two verses indicate...
JK- THE ARABS DID NOT RECEIVE THE QURAN ALL AT ONCE. There was NO COMPLETE QURAN whilst Muhammad was primarily being inspired. So there were individual statements coming from the mouth of Muhammad as a messenger and the people then needed more clarification of those. Hence more revelations from GOD came again through the mouth of the messenger and so on and so forth. Lastly ALL the relevant statements for all times were combined into one Book, namely the Quran, by the Will of GOD. Is this so difficult to understand? GOD Bless!
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Peace "albruni",
I have explaind this in my resent post ........
Quran says Moses as messenger though he died and Mohammed is also the messenger till the world end.
Even you agreed that he recived other than quran from god , then why you are not willing to follow it???God Bless
JK- Yes BUT the Quran says that in A PARTICULAR CONTEXT WHICH CLEARLY REFERS TO PAST EVENTS. How acn Moses be a messenger now? If that is true then you hadithis followers should accept that Jesus, who according to you is still alive, is also a Prophet and a messenger still hence making Muhammad not the last of either and thus contradicting yourself.
As for me agreeing that Muhammad received other revelation from GOD that doesdnt mean GOD has MEANT THOSE for us. Those are logically only for his time OTHERWISE WHY DIDNT GOD PRESERVE THEM IN A SEPARATE PROTECTED SCRIPTURE OR EVEN INCLUDE THOSE IN THE QURAN? It is very easy for GOD to have done so and the fact that He didnt shows that it is of no significance to us. This is my basic qs to all sectarians. GOD Bless! -
GOD thus explains His revelations for you, that you may understand
We thus explain the revelations, and point out the ways of the wicked.
This is the straight path to your Lord. We have explained the revelations for people who take heed.
We thus explain the revelations, to enable the people to redeem themselves
What do these verses mean to you? Is it not clear that GOD is the One who explains?
This is a scientific way to protect the hadith? So my neighbor said, that her friend said, that her uncle told her, that his boss told him, that last week he heard about it from a grocer, etc. etc. Now, keep in mind that my neighbor is righteous. I know that for sure. And, I think her friend is pretty good, and her uncle, maybe. I don't know about the boss and the grocer is a total stranger. Where is the authenticity?
Peace,
dottySalam Brother,
Please read my posts I too agree that GOD is the One who explains. God explain to prophet , Prophet explain to people ..outline is said in quran and prophet has teach us how to do it which is preserved in Hadhis and about the authenticity the biography of all narrators are preserved so that we can check the authenticity if there is no biography of a narrators then we are not going to follow it.
Where does it say in the Quran that Surah Al Baqarah must come after Al Fatihah?
Where does it say in the Quran that Surah An Nas (Qulauzubirabinnas) must be the last Surah (chapter) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?alhamdulillahirabilalamin(0101)? must come before ?Ar Rahman Ar Rahim(0102)??
Where does it say in the Quran that there must be 114 Surah (Chapters) in the Quran?
Where does it say in the Quran that ?Qulhuwallahuahad (11201) must come before ?Allahusamad(11202)?The arrangement of the Quran is a proof that we have to follow the hadhis.
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Peace "albruni",
The arrangement of the Quran has been proven 1) via archaeological evidence of the Quranic manuscripts 2) via a numerical pattern based on no.19. There is no hadith needed to show any of this. Hadith wouldnt constitute proof of the arrangement of the Quran because theyve already been shown to be unreliable and biased. The fact that so many SAHIH hadith contradict reality and science is proof positive of them not being the inspirations from GOD. GOD Bless! -
Please read my posts I too agree that GOD is the One who explains. God explain to prophet , Prophet explain to people
God explains to ALL mankind by way of the Quran. You need to set it in your mind that the Quran is complete. Anything not in the Quran God has given us the choice to use our brains and decide for ourselves... simple. The only things that matter are detailed in the Quran. Ask yourself why God would tell the prophet to explain it, then depend on humans to collect those explanations 200+ years later.
Peace,
dotty