Who are the people of the book?
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Salaam Arnab,
Thank you so much for explaining this, I can see the passages differently now and would come back with my renewed understanding insha?allah.
I have this feeling that something has been missing/cause to be forgotten in this writing of history.
Also I must apologise for being blunt in my last post, I hope I did not cause any offence as that was not my intention.Best of regards
Salam farida,
Thank you for your kind comments.
I don't take offense to others voicing their opinions and you have no need to apologize.
It is likely that we will agree on some points and disagree on others it's all part of exploring the scriptures.
And it is also likely that we will be passionate about our disagreements.
LOL Its just part of the journey.
group
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace.
This is incorrect, brother. Esa (Jesus) never wrote ANY PORTION of the Bible, not one book.
Peace,
We are ordered to believe in what was revealed to Jesus, as we were ordered to believe in what was revealed to Mohamed and Moses. Thus, any writting that were written after there death are not part of the Book; and that is what I meant.
Peace -
Peace.
This is incorrect, brother. Esa (Jesus) never wrote ANY PORTION of the Bible, not one book. Al-Qur'an emphasizes that "books" were SENT DOWN to all of the prophets (i.e. Ibraheem, Mousa, Dawud, Esa, Mohammed, etc.), and this is what we are commanded to believe in, the true Scripture from God. However, the "New Testament" of the Bible was not "sent down" to any of them, and none of those writers were called "prophets" in al-Qur'an, NOT ONE... If Esa was a human-prophet, which al-Qur'an upholds, how could he give the details of his death? By the time those Biblical books were written, Esa had been dead for years! These books do not make up the Injeel that al-Qur'an was referring to, they are opinionated sketches of Esa's life and ministry, written by his direct followers ("apostles" and others not so - Luke was never even an apostle of Esa, he was said to be a physician. Most of the remainder of the "New Testament" was written by Paul ("Saul", a man who never even met Esa...
I disagree Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace,
We are ordered to believe in what was revealed to Jesus, as we were ordered to believe in what was revealed to Mohamed and Moses. Thus, any writting that were written after there death are not part of the Book; and that is what I meant.
PeacePeace.
I agree with this. In al-Qur'an, it tells us to believe in the Scripture that was sent down to all the prophets - this includes Esa, since he was definately one of the prophets. According to the Scripture, the Injeel was sent down to Esa while he was alive, and this is what we are to believe in. Prophets other than Mousa and Mohammed are recorded as receiving a Scripture as well - Ibraheem, Noah, Dawud, Isaac, Ismail, and others are also spoken of in al-Qur'an as receiving a divine message from God, and we're told you believe in all these divine books, some of which are lost. So, what book do you think was al-Qur'an referring to that was sent down to Esa? You are definately correct about writings after his death - there's no way these can be included in the message that was sent down to him. That's why I don't completely accept the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as being authentic or divine Scripture from God...
Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
This may be true to an extent, possibly... So, you believe Esa never received his own divine message to bring to the people? There are many other books written by some of Esa's followers that were never included in the Bible cannon we have today, and they provide personal sketches of Esa's life and ministry. What do you think of these books?
Peace,
Ahmad
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I disagree Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
So, you believe Esa never received his own divine message to bring to the people?
I never said that.
I DO believe that Isa received his own divine message to bring to the people.
There are many other books written by some of Esa's followers that were never included in the Bible cannon we have today, and they provide personal sketches of Esa's life and ministry. What do you think of these books?
I think that some of them could be scripture. At this point I have not fully evaluated them to come to a conclusion. But, in The Gospel of Thomas is the story of Isa breathing into the clay birds. Just as we have in the Quran. So I would say that there is a very high possibility that some of the apocrypha is scripture.
Salam,
Arnab -
It is likely that we will agree on some points and disagree on others it's all part of exploring the scriptures.
group
Salam,
ArnabSalaam Arnab,
Of courseAnd it is also likely that we will be passionate about our disagreements.
Of course and, as I said above, I would Insha?allah come back with my renewed understanding that would mean an informative discussion on my view and views of other learned contributors and as a result we are bound to learn more according to our individual grasp of the truth.
I am still trying to reach my understanding of the passages I posted before and it may take longer as I have to think carefully after all we have linguists like yourself and Samia. For now I?ll say this much, although I don?t agree with the newcomer, Anders, on many issues I agreed with his passage ref
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/7268/1240/Monotheists, in their zeal to profess their monotheism, have a very strong tendency to acknowledge only 2 intelligent parties, man and god. This causes them to think that anything that is too complicated for man to create MUST therefore originate from god.
This is nonsensical, for it over looks the 3rd party known by various names which I shall here refer to as Satan.
Satan is known to be far beyond the intelligence of man, and no one who considers the ongoing suffering on this planet can rationally deny that.
Rationally therefore, we can not conclude without further evidence that something found to be beyond the creative abilities of man must therefore originate from god.It could very well originate from Satan!...............andersI do believe all scripts, directly from God, are protected and Satan has been barred from inserting his input into them, but any Hadith or so called history(story/report/narration/statement/tale/) is told by historians and to think that Satan had no part in that would be a very easy ride for Adam.
LOL Its just part of the journey.
So as part of the journey we have a very difficult job to comb out, with a fine tooth comb, what appears to be wispers from Satan.
Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise it as they recognise their sons. Those who ruin their own souls will not believe.
peace
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Peace.
I agree with this. In al-Qur'an, it tells us to believe in the Scripture that was sent down to all the prophets - this includes Esa, since he was definately one of the prophets. According to the Scripture, the Injeel was sent down to Esa while he was alive, and this is what we are to believe in.
Peace all,
I agree; and as Arnab said and others, such teachings exist in many writtings. thus we have to accept only what the Quran confirms. But, we also have to understand that the Quran came to change some of the laws that were given in the Bible and the Torah (God made it more easier); Thus, some of the Bible and Torah Laws can be different from what in Quran, therefore, we can not say that such Laws are man made but we should thank God for changing it for us to a more easier ones.
PeacePeace
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Salam belal hammad. Stick to your CORRECT statement "we have to accept only what the Quran confirms" The Quran does not confirm that laws of the Bible were changed, the Quran does not confirm that god made it easier.
Allah is the lawgiver.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah
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Peace all,
I agree; and as Arnab said and others, such teachings exist in many writtings. thus we have to accept only what the Quran confirms. But, we also have to understand that the Quran came to change some of the laws that were given in the Bible and the Torah (God made it more easier); Thus, some of the Bible and Torah Laws can be different from what in Quran, therefore, we can not say that such Laws are man made but we should thank God for changing it for us to a more easier ones.
PeacePeace
Salaam belalhammad
16118 To the JEWS We prohibited such things as We have mentioned to thee before We did them no wrong, but they were used to doing wrong to themselves.
peace -
Salam belal hammad. Stick to your CORRECT statement "we have to accept only what the Quran confirms" The Quran does not confirm that laws of the Bible were changed, the Quran does not confirm that god made it easier.
Allah is the lawgiver.
Peace'
My answer isSalaam belalhammad
16118 To the JEWS We prohibited such things as We have mentioned to thee before We did them no wrong, but they were used to doing wrong to themselves.
peaceThanks
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I DO believe that Isa received his own divine message to bring to the people.
I think that some of them could be scripture. At this point I have not fully evaluated them to come to a conclusion. But, in The Gospel of Thomas is the story of Isa breathing into the clay birds. Just as we have in the Quran. So I would say that there is a very high possibility that some of the apocrypha is scripture.
Peace.
I can partially agree with this. I've read through a few of the apocrypha, and some of it is confirmed by al-Qur'an. I haven't gotten a chance to read all of it, though, but I'm definately trying to do so to determine what's accurate and what's not... Is the Gospel of Thomas the only book that confirms Esa breathing into the birds? Al-Qur'an mentions it repeatedly, so it must be an important act, and it's not even mentioned in the 4 books (M,M,L,J) we have in the Bible cannon of today...
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Salam belal hammad. Yes the Jews were prohibited the same things as Muslims are prohibited.
Peace,
Please forgive me, but you are very wrong.Here what God porhibited for the Jews
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For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them the fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone this in recompense for their wilful disobedience for We are True (in Our ordinances). (6-146)
But for me I will say what God ordered prophet Mohamed to say
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Say "I find not in the Message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine for it is an abomination or what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's." But (even so) if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits thy Lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (6-145)
Peace -
Salam belal hammad. 6146 fa alatheena hado haramna ... the word jewish is not in there... it says, hado haramna, prohibited limits.
The verse is mistranslated, that is very clear. The verse refers to prohibited limits without exception. The prohibited limits apply to all believers.
Allah is mighty wise.
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Salam belal hammad. 6146 fa alatheena hado haramna ... the word jewish is not in there... it says, hado haramna, prohibited limits.
The verse is mistranslated, that is very clear. The verse refers to prohibited limits without exception. The prohibited limits apply to all believers.
Allah is mighty wise.
Peace,
In brief, do you think Moslems should follow 6-146 or 145? More over, what God porhibted in the Torah, 6-145 or 6-146?
Peace -
Salam belal hammad. Because whatever is recited from Allah is Quran, and hado haramna is recited from Allah, therefore hado haramna is Quran.
More importantly, Allah is not daeef that Allah makes mistakes, Allah is not weak human being. To assert that Allah needs to make changes impunes the wisdom and glory of Allah.
Allah makes no mistakes. Allah does not make changes. Only people who make mistakes need to make changes. Allah has sent similar verses or copies of verses all the time. I will obey what Allah commands wherever I find a command of Allah.
Allah is the lawgiver.
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Salam belal hammad. Because whatever is recited from Allah is Quran, and hado haramna is recited from Allah, therefore hado haramna is Quran.
More importantly, Allah is not daeef that Allah makes mistakes, Allah is not weak human being. To assert that Allah needs to make changes impunes the wisdom and glory of Allah.
Allah makes no mistakes. Allah does not make changes. Only people who make mistakes need to make changes. Allah has sent similar verses or copies of verses all the time. I will obey what Allah commands wherever I find a command of Allah.
Allah is the lawgiver.
Peace,
You did not answer my QuestionPeace,
In brief, do you think Moslems should follow 6-146 or 145? More over, what God porhibted in the Torah, 6-145 or 6-146?
Peace -
Salam belal hammad. Eating animals that have died by themselves, drinking the blood of an animal, and eating the flesh of a pig, is prohibited in the Torah and Quran. Therefore obeying Quran and Torah is the same thing.
When it comes to 6146, Allah says "this is in recompense for their wilful disobedience" In other words, those who wilfully disobey the hadd haramna, they are to "recompense" by not eating the fat of ox and sheep, except what adheres to their back or entrails, or is mixed up with bone" This is the same in the Torah and Quran.
Let me give you a clear example of had haramna, wa kahnzeerun harramun aleyka. This is a had, a huddood, and haramun. A had haramna. This had haramna is clearly in the Quran. If a person knows this had, and hudood, and wilfully eats khanzeer, the recompense not eating the fat of ox and sheep, except what adheres to their back or entrails, or is mixed up with bone. This is a way in which a person can recompense his wilful disobedience. Wilful violations of had haramna can be recompensed in the same manner.
Allah is the best of judges.