-=[ My case of divorce is different than others ]=-
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Salaamun all,
Here is the link http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596986.0
In my case, I believe in Allah alone and AlQuraan as a total and complete guidance... but my wife and in-laws believe in AlQuraan with so called Hadith.
And they decided to take Qula because I became a kafir in their eyes. Reading here in the cases of others, bring tears to my eyes. You can follow the link above and you will get some details.
Actually, I sent my proposal to that house because they are converts from Mehdavi sect same as me. You can get details here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596988.0
But now when I became Allah aloner they dont like it... They call me kafir and took Qula .
Now I am in great trouble... Please help me with my situation...
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaam mmkhan. Talaq is the muslim procedure for termination of the muslim nikah. There is no other procedure. At all times it is the authority of the husband to issue a talaq. There is no authority for anyone else, wife, mosque, or state to issue a talaq. Allah's hudood is supreme. There is no hadith/story that can supercede the hudood of Allah.
The mistake made by those who claim that khul is some sort of divorce is they fail to comprehend, that the word khul is used in the Quran, as a POST TALAQ ACTION. In other words without a talaq, there cannot be a khul, which is an equitable exchange of consideration for the economic damages that the man suffers as a result of the talaq.
The word qula or khula does not mean divorce. Divorce is a latin word describing the termination of the pagan civil agreement called marriage, not relevant to nikah or talaq.
Unless your inlaws can provide a single verse from the Quran, that says a khul is a divorce EXPLICITLY, they ascribe a lie to Allah. Your in laws or your wife or a court or anyone else who takes away you wife from you, will suffer severe punishment from Allah. It appears your in laws do not submit to Allah. I can cite the Quran where it says the same, I have not done so to keep this brief.
Let me remind you of Lut. Lut honestly believed his wife had submitted to Allah. Lut's wife had deceived him. Allah punished Lut's wife, and Lut then became aware of her deceit. If your wife has deceived you, claiming to be a Muslim, while in fact she violates the hudood, not accepting you as rajl, and allowing her relatives to assist her in violating the hudood of Allah, then Allah has already shown that he will destroy all of them.
Fear nothing and do not grieve. Those who have faith in Allah, no fear is on them nor shall they grieve.
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Salaamun brother Al Araf,
Thank you ...
But I need some clarification of what you said
And my wife is innocent... I should say she is not matured mentally... She think only their family members are her own... she never think that my house is her... but she always think that her father's house is her house... When she use to go to her father's house... she use to feel very much free... but in my house not the same... even after 12 years of our marraige... So, when this is the condition, what else I can expect from her.
BTW, actually brother they were planning for our seperation since 6 months but they could not able to take this step . And when I HAVE DECIDED TO GIVE HER TALAAQ , this talaaq took place...
But my wife's uncle played a game in between... He want me to follow him... when I denied, he took this step... because my wife was not matured enough to understand the situation or the upcoming situations that she may face, she accepted her uncles call immidiately without thinking a minute.
And also her uncle gave some false information to my father-in-law and he propogates all fake information about me in my locality... like I don't perform salaat, I deny Prophet Mohammed, I don't allow my wife to pray, I stand in front of her when she stood for Salaat, etc....
It is a long story brother... very long... for 12 years....
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaam mmkhan. Muslims are under the hadd and huddod of Allah. The hadd and hudood of Allah are in the Quran. In Quran, there is only nikah and talaq for Muslims. Anything else is not in hadd or hudood.
Marriage, divorce, are not in Quran, not in hadd, not in hudood. Not permitted for Muslims. In Rome there were SIX different kind of marriages, in United States there are TWO kinds of marriage. To say United States gay marriage is the same as nikah is complete nonsense.
If you read the Quran verse relating to khul, the verse talks about talaq first and khul afterwards. There cannot be khul without talaq. I have heard the claims of some "scholars" it is nonsense. That khul is some kind of woman divorce. This is forging a lie against Allah. Allah has not made such a thing.
You have a duty as a Muslim to decide what you wish to do at this point. You can choose to proceed with a talaq, begin the process by demanding the arbitration, if the arbitration fails then move to talaq with correct time limits. I read your previous post where you said some state had issued a khul. Do not be concerned with this. I will relate a hadith to you.
Ibraheem went to stay in the kingdom of Abimelech. Abimelech tried to take Ibraheem's wife from him. During a dream Allah told Abimelech that he is a dead man for taking a man's wife away from him. Abimelech woke up frightened, called Ibraheem and told him to take his wife back.
Why do I tell you this hadith? Because this hadith explains the hudood of Allah. NOT EVEN A KING has the right to take away a man's wife. If a king has no right, a court has no right, a state has no right. Yes, this nonsense khul will get all the people involved death from Allah.
Allah reveals the light by stages.
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Salaam mmkhan. Muslims are under the hadd and huddod of Allah. The hadd and hudood of Allah are in the Quran. In Quran, there is only nikah and talaq for Muslims. Anything else is not in hadd or hudood.
Marriage, divorce, are not in Quran, not in hadd, not in hudood. Not permitted for Muslims. In Rome there were SIX different kind of marriages, in United States there are TWO kinds of marriage. To say United States gay marriage is the same as nikah is complete nonsense.
If you read the Quran verse relating to khul, the verse talks about talaq first and khul afterwards. There cannot be khul without talaq. I have heard the claims of some "scholars" it is nonsense. That khul is some kind of woman divorce. This is forging a lie against Allah. Allah has not made such a thing.
You have a duty as a Muslim to decide what you wish to do at this point. You can choose to proceed with a talaq, begin the process by demanding the arbitration, if the arbitration fails then move to talaq with correct time limits. I read your previous post where you said some state had issued a khul. Do not be concerned with this. I will relate a hadith to you.
Ibraheem went to stay in the kingdom of Abimelech. Abimelech tried to take Ibraheem's wife from him. During a dream Allah told Abimelech that he is a dead man for taking a man's wife away from him. Abimelech woke up frightened, called Ibraheem and told him to take his wife back.
Why do I tell you this hadith? Because this hadith explains the hudood of Allah. NOT EVEN A KING has the right to take away a man's wife. If a king has no right, a court has no right, a state has no right. Yes, this nonsense khul will get all the people involved death from Allah.
Allah reveals the light by stages.
Here we go again!! preaching hudood while out of hadd. '(
Salaam Brother MM Khan
Of course no one has got right to take anyone's else' wife or husband by force even if he is the king or the Queen.
In your case its the hadiths who are doing what A-A has been trying to do by citing an ancient hedith of Abrahim. If one was to take his hadith as an authority then what is stopping your wife's family from taking the hedith of Muslim/Bukahari as their authority
You have a problem where those who consider themselves righteous twist and turn the laws of the Qur'an to suit their situations and if you think that free-mind forum will be able to help you solve your family dispute then, in my IMHO, you are wasting your time.
Free-minders can only give you their advice finally its is YOU and only YOU can resolve YOUR problems.
For the sake of your children I would suggest that you have a one to one meeting with your wife and bring to her attention how important it is for her and the children to sort out their priorities and, if its does not yeild any results, then take the matter to the arbritators.
You have been given good legal adivice from some fee mind members that you must deposit maintaince for the children via court so that no one can claim that you have not done your duty. So there too its only you who can act on this advice and make sure all the paper work is in place to show that you have given maintainance for your children.
Salaam
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Salaaman Al Araf,
Brother you wrote "Marriage, divorce, are not in Quran, not in hadd, not in hudood. Not permitted for Muslims."
I don't understand what do you mean by Marriage and Nikah, Divorce and Talaaq? What is the difference do you think?You also wrote "If you read the Quran verse relating to khul, the verse talks about talaq first and khul afterwards. There cannot be khul without talaq."
I don't find any such aayat regarding Qula? Can please refer it to me? It will be appreciated inshaAllah.And also I dont understand why have you quoted Hadith to me? And who is 'Abimelech' ??? I saw this name for the first time in my life.
You wrote "Why do I tell you this hadith? Because this hadith explains the hudood of Allah."
Comeon brother, please... How can be hudood of Allah mentioned in hadith?Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaaman Farida,
You wrote "if you think that free-mind forum will be able to help you solve your family dispute then, in my IMHO, you are wasting your time. "
I never think that free-minds or anyone else will be able to solve my problems... I ask for suggestions, advices, guidance... just for the purpose of Mashwara. Because, I was not in a position to think , I could not able to ponder... that is only reason. And you have also given the answer.You wrote "Free-minders can only give you their advice finally its is YOU and only YOU can resolve YOUR problems."
Yes, this is true... I seek total help from Allah alone....And I am thankful from my heart to all suggestions that I received. May Allah give you all the best reward for advicing me.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salam mmkhan. Let me begin by establishing the definitions of words. For each word to be used correctly, a person must have the correct definition of each word.
Nikah The procedure by which a Muslim man and woman, enter into a relationship, with rights and duties established by Allah, found in the Quran
Marriage The procedure by which any two persons, enter into a relationship with rights and duties established by the state, found in the laws of that state.Talaq The procedure by which a Muslim man, releases a Muslim woman, from the relationship of nikah, with rights and duties established by Allah, found in the Quran.
Divorce The procedure by which any two persons, end their relationship, with rights and duties established by the state, found in the laws of the state.As you can see, Nikah and Talaq, are the same worldwide, because Quran is the same worldwide. Marriage and Divorce are not the same worldwide, each country has different marriage and divorce laws. This is why I say Nikah is not Marriage, and Talaq is not Divorce.
Muslims are required to conduct themselves, within the limits established by Allah. A single limit is called a had. The collection of all the limits is called hudood. Allah has not established Marriage and Divorce in the Quran as had or hudood for Muslims. Therefore, a Muslim is outside the hudood, or has violated the limits, when they get Married or Divorced. Allah has allowed only Nikah and Talaq for Muslims.
I hope that answers your first question.
Al Baqarah 2229 is cited by those who claim there is a womans right to a "divorce" called a Khula. Please read this ayat. then compare this ayat to my statement "If you read the Quran verse relating to the khul, the verse talks about talaq first, and khul afterwards. There cannot be a khul without talaq"
I hope that answers your second question.
Hadith a story.
We must distinguish between what is customarily called Hadith, and the word hadith. Customarily Muslims call the collection of stories relating to muhammad, Hadith. They are stories. There is another category of hadith, hadith in the Quran. What do I mean by this? Allah has recited many stories of the messengers in the Quran. These stories are also hadith. This leads us to a very important distinction.
The hadith of Allah, are valid, as mathala, or illustrations. The hadith of Allah are not hadd or hudood. The Hadith of for example "Sahih Bukhari" are stories, not approved by Allah, and not valid because Allah has not put them in the hadd or hudood.
If Allah provides a hadith it is mathala. If Hadith tell a story, it is not mathala or hudood, it is just a story.
I hope this answers your questions. May Allah bless your path towards him.
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Salaaman Farida,
You wrote "if you think that free-mind forum will be able to help you solve your family dispute then, in my IMHO, you are wasting your time. "
I never think that free-minds or anyone else will be able to solve my problems... I ask for suggestions, advices, guidance... just for the purpose of Mashwara. Because, I was not in a position to think , I could not able to ponder... that is only reason. And you have also given the answer.You wrote "Free-minders can only give you their advice finally its is YOU and only YOU can resolve YOUR problems."
Yes, this is true... I seek total help from Allah alone....And I am thankful from my heart to all suggestions that I received. May Allah give you all the best reward for advicing me.
Regards,
mmKhanSalaam brother mmkhan,
Please do not think that I was harsh on you No, instead I feel there is urgency that you contact your wife on one to one based as you said ? And my wife is innocent... I should say she is not matured mentally...? and that is what I was trying to suggest don?t waste time on this forum contact your wife and I have some knowledge of Indian Muslim divorce law and they have very detailed rights of both parties. Engage a lawyer it?s not too late.
If you have a meeting with her without delay and explain to her that you need your family and make her feel that you desire her also you can remove all sorts of misunderstanding which have been created due to lack of communication between two of you.
Even if it means taking time off work and travelling to India. INSTEAD OF feeling sorry here and say I did all I can go and make up with her before it?s too late. Remember she is mother of your children and she is the most important woman in your life and from your post you do not have any complain from her except that she feel this is not her home so make her feel that she is the Queen in your house.
Best wishes
peace -
Salaam Al Araf,
Thank you for your reply.
How do you translate the words Nikah and Talaaq into another language? I think Nikah is an Arabic word and same goes in English as Marraige. In the same way Talaaq and Divorce. If not, please explain.
And about Qula, I did not find anything in relation to Qula in the quoted verse... It says.... "2228 And the divorced women shall undergo, without remarrying, a waiting-period of three monthly courses for it is not lawful for them to conceal what God may have created in their wombs, ...................."
The word used in this verse in Arabic is ""... Are you refering to the same word? I dont find anything about Qula in 2228 to 2232. nope Please check, and if you find, please let me know.
And about Hadith you wrote "There is another category of hadith, hadith in the Quran"
I got your point but I prefer to say AlQuraan is AlHadith rather than Quran is also Hadith. As Allah said "Allahu nazzala ahsana AlHadith".Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaaman Sister Farida,
So kind of you handshake
I am sorry to say that, I have already tried. very recently but failed. >(
It is because, as I said, she only hear to her parents and relatives. And Alhamdulillah, she also does not have any problem from me. Few days back one of my friend's wife who is a good friend of my wife (still she is not ex D) called my wife and explained her lot of things (call last for an hour). My wife said, I don't have any complaints about my husband not his parents and relatives, but he became a kafir, so my nikah got void. I cannot live with him anymore. And she started crying. My friends wife tried to convince her in so many ways.... but brickwall
As I said, she is not able take any judgements tempt
Finally, few more days left now, but there are no ways or chances any more. And I have left everything on Allah, I tried my best, I released her with ahsan way without blaming her or without any fights just because to follow the commands of Allah alone.
Now everything remains on Allah as He said "...antumul Aa'loona in kuntum mu'mineen" inshaAllah.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salam mmkhan. I have come across your posts in other threads. From the number and content of the posts it is clear you are disturbed by the circumstances.
Your wife says you have become a kafir. This statement by your wife is the most important issue, and the clue to the problem. I am certain you are not a kafir, your reliance on Allah and his Quran proves you are not a kafir. Yes, this is the point at which your problem exists. The facts are you are not a kafir, yet your wife claims you are a kafir. How could such a situation exist?
Ordinarily, we presume that on both sides, we are dealing with normal rational persons. However, when we come across situations like this, when one person is rational, and the other person is irrational we must stop and put aside the presumption that both people are rational.
I have looked through your posts, you are confused and disturbed, you seek the end of the desertion, you care about the welfare of your wife. You are looking for any rational reason for the conduct, including malfeasant infuences of her family. This tells me you are a normal person confounded by the irrational conduct of your wife.
I have examined the conduct of your wife, and I find multiple items of conduct that demonstrate your wife is not rational. It is the hukum of Allah that a wife obey husband, your wife demands you obey her by changing your belief. It is the hukum of Allah that a wife may be punished for desertion, she has deserted you and is wilfully ignorant of her violation of the hudood. It is the hukum of Allah that you obey him and him alone, which you do, and for this your wife calls you a kafir, turning the very meaning of kafir on its head.
When I search for a rational explanation for your wife's conduct, her action of desertion, her disobedience, her accusation of kafir, I find only one rational explanation for her conduct. I do not wish to make anyone out a bad person, however you do not deserve to be left in the confused state you find yourself. With great kindness let me describe the only rational answer. Your wife is not mad or crazy, your wife is mentally ill. Please make sure you understand that distinction before continuing.
The fact she had an unreasonable urge to flee which she could not control, the fact she has an unreasonable urge to refuse to obey you as her husband which she cannot control, the fact she has an unreasonable conclusion that you are a kafir which she cannot control, all point to mental illness. The conduct is consistent with paranoia and delusion.
When you see a person with a wound, you can be sympathetic, because you can see the wound. When there is a wound in the brain, you are usually not sympathetic, because you cannot see the wound. Sometimes the person has had a history of paranoid and deluded conduct, in which case this is another instance of a long series of events, which existed before she married you. There may be similar instances in her past.
Allah is mighty wise. Allah has established faith, belief, submission, obedience, humility, nikah, all in his infinite knowledge and wisdom as a protection against these very kind of mental illnesses. How can a momin have paranoia when they believe Allah is their protector? How can a momin have delusions when they obey Allah and those Allah sets out in authority over them? It is impossible to be paranoid if you believe Allah takes care of you. It is impossible to have delusions if you believe Allah knows all things. Your wife does not know and does not realize, that as long as she refuses to turn back to faith, obedience, submission, and humility, her mental illness will be prolonged and worsened. To turn from the hukum and hudood of Allah, is to invite immediate and certain disaster in this life and the next.
Your wife will answer for herself on the day of judgment. You will answer for yourself on the day of judgment. If your wife does not have faith in Allah, remains paranoid, does not accept Allah is all knowing, remains delusional then maybe Allah will grant you out of his bounty someone who is better in faith and humble as a wife. Is Allah not capable of doing all that he wishes?
Nasru min Allah was fathun qareeb.
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Salaaman brother Al Araf,
Thank you for your understanding. But I just wanted to clear some points and reasons of the Talaaq / Qula.
1- As I said, my wife is really innocent, and she is not mentally matured enough to judge good and bad, even for herself.
2- But she brought up in an environment where there is no care for husbands.
3- And she has not seen outside world. She don't have any social activities, meeting others, nothing. Like a frog of a well.
4- She believes as 100% to what ever her relatives and family members say.
5- She always behaves to me like my husband. yes
6- And actually she don't like my likenesses. That means 99% uncompatable with me since marraige.
7- She is so careless that she lost 22 tolas of gold that we gave at our marraige. And my in-laws send police to my house, they checked everything and Alhamdulillah, police inspector said, allow me to enter and check in their house also. My parents said, we left everything on Allah, He will surely help us. Alhamdulillah, everybody in our locality said that it is not possible to lose even a pie from that house, that house is a bank for many of us (My mom use to keep money of lot of people, as saving, just for the sake of help and to make Allah happy).
8- Later my mom made again the same 20 or 22 tolas of gold for her considering she is a member of our house, but unfortunately she and her parents are not even thankful to my mom. They never care because they are a big shots.
9- I did not get children for 6 years after marraige and her mother said in public that my daughter got a very bad luck because I married her to a person who is not a MAN (who cannot produce children). At that time also me and my parents left everything on Allah. And I said, I will pray to Allah for children and I believe that He is the listener of all. And Alhamdulillah, very next month my wife became pregnant. And my mother-in-law got no answer! Allah has shown them well. Alhamdulillah. Actually, they don't want to get blamed, so initially they put all on me.
10- I had given full freedom to my wife for going to her parents house. I never stopped her, and she use to go almost twice or thrice a week. And sometimes she use to stay there for 2 days - 1 week. (I think there I made a mistake, that I did not control her). Not only this, she use to go out with her sisters, but I never stop her.
11- In last Ramadhan, her uncle (father's elder brother) came from Saudi Arabia for good. And he came to know about my believes. He called me on dinner, I went, he said lot of stories and shown himself very superior and knowlegable and ask me to tell in front of him that "uncle, you are right, and from today onwards I will follow what you said", and he added, you cannot go from here until you say this. I suddenly stood up and said, you cannot force me, do whatever you want to.
And I said, you think you are right and I think I am on the right path, so, I pray to Allah that whosoever is wrong, guide us towards the path of yours. Suddenly, he replied, "I dont need your guidance, I am already guided and you became a kafir, and your Nikah got haraam, you are doing zina when you are going to your wife, what ever you earning is haraam for your wife and children, and so on...." I just got up and left from there. He is the main charecter who made this fasaad. And if anyone ask him why you created fasaad, he will surely say, I wanted to rectify things. He never follow, what he himself say. He is a clear hepocrate.
12- For six months, they were feeding my wife the same lesson, and she was sleeping away from me since 6 months and told me that she is not well and I believed her. But later I came to know this was the reason said above. So, finally this incident happened. Because of the reaction of my wife against me, I took this step initially, I called her brother and told him that "Your sister don't want to live with me anymore, and me too". They were planning for the same since 6 months but they could not take any step because Alhamdulillah, they dont find anything bad or wrong in me. hail
But I have taken a start and again they wanted to be superior so, they said, what are you talking about Talaaq, we want to take Qula.
So, this was a story brother. I should clarify that my father-in-law is not involved in anything, and he is very understanding, but unfortunately, he has been wrongly informed about all the cases by his wife and brother. Because he works abroad, he dont know the reality. We (me and him) got so many sitting and discussions about the matter of AlQuraan alone. I tried to convince him and he tried to convince me for Hadith (he also got a good knowledge of AlQuraan and Hadith also). But did not find any ways.
InshaAllah, Everything written above is correct and true as per my knowledge. Allah knows best. He is the all knower.
Sorry brother, sorry for such a loooooooooooooong story. But I just wanted to convey the truth.
Regards,
mmKhan