I think I have figured out Salat times
-
I know I am new here and am new to this, but this issue has been bugging me hardcore, and it's difficult for me to stay satisfied with any one answer. I kept reading and rereading these verses until I think I figured it out
The literal translation of 1778
Start/keep-up the prayers to the sun's nearing setting to the night's darkness, and the dawn's recitation, that the dawn's recitation was/is being witnessed.1779
and from the night so wake up and pray with it done above the call of duty for you, maybe/perhaps your Lord sends/resurrects you to a praised/thanked position/residence11114
and keep up the prayers to ends/edges the daytime of to parts of the night from the night; that the goodness wipe-off/eliminate the sins/crimes, that is a rememberance/reminder to the praising/glorifying2238
observe/guard the prayers, and the prayers the middle, and stand/call to God obeying/worshipping humbly
As I was reading I was trying to justify three prayers, and I couldn't see the third, then I was trying to justify two prayers, and the "prayers the middle" was bothering me. It is clear that the first prayer 1778 establishes is at SUNSET, and the second time it mentions is the recitation at SUNRISE. Does this mean we are to read the Qu'ran at dawn, not perform Salat? I don't know.
Verse 11114 says to keep up the prayers at the ends/edges of the daytime, and "to parts of the night from the night", it is not clear but I think this may be saying SUNRISE, SUNSET, and PARTS OF NIGHTTIME.
2238 implies special emphasis to "prayers the middle", or middle prayers. If 1778 established the first prayer at SUNSET, the middle prayers are at NIGHT, and the last is at SUNRISE, then that would support 1779's position that the NIGHT prayers are OPTIONAL, and REWARDED.
So my understanding after digesting the above verses is this
FIRST Salat Sunset
MIDDLE Salat Night-time
LAST SALAT Sunrise
If someone only does the obligatory two prayers that is satisfactory but if one prays the optional but highly recommended middle prayers as well they will be rewarded.Does anyone see any discrepancies, errors I made, did I overlook anything, anybody disagree, etc etc etc?? I hope I made myself easy to understand!
peace!
-
Sorry. I figured it had been discussed a lot but I thought I'd try my hand at reading something that was bothering me. I thought it was strange that a couple verses about Salat would be inbetween other verses about marriage; for some reason it hadn't occured to me that "Salat" could mean anything other than the prayers. So the definitive conclusion on 2238 is that it is not about Salat at all, but about maintaining commitments/vows/bonds/etc with spouses. That doesn't really change my conclusion about number of prayers/prayer times, I was only really using 2238 as a support for what I thought 1779 was about, but it may be that I made similar mistakes (actually I'm convinced now that I probably don't know anything). Sorry for polluting the forum with ignorance.
peace.
-
The literal translation of 1778
Start/keep-up the prayers to the sun's nearing setting to the night's darkness, and the dawn's recitation, that the dawn's recitation was/is being witnessed.1779
and from the night so wake up and pray with it done above the call of duty for you, maybe/perhaps your Lord sends/resurrects you to a praised/thanked position/residenceDoes this mean we are to read the Qu'ran at dawn, not perform Salat? I don't know.
So my understanding after digesting the above verses is this
FIRST Salat Sunset
MIDDLE Salat Night-time
LAST SALAT Sunrise
If someone only does the obligatory two prayers that is satisfactory but if one prays the optional but highly recommended middle prayers as well they will be rewarded.peace!
11114 Pray dawn and evening at sunset, during twilight.
1778 Keep the evening prayers at sunset until it has become completely dark, and the prayer and reading at dawn; for the dawn prayer and reading is established.
1779 So wake up from the night and pray and read, a duty for you as was for those before you, God willing your Lord grant you a blessed position.)( During the dawn prayer one may read all the way up until its expiry (sunrise). And for the evening prayer one may read all the way up until midnight or its expiry.)
The daily reading is done in the dawn and evening prayer times ( See ?Times of prayer.? )
The same place you pray is were you do your reading. ( e.g. the reading is done alongside the prayers.)
So we have within the same timefram to read quran and salat...The reading might take up the majority of the time...
First salat sunset ( Obligatory )
??? middle salat ??? late night ( additional prayer ) 315, 5115
Last salat Dawn ( obligatory )
peace
-
I utilized the search function and quickly found out that the definition of "salat" that I have been working on was very narrow. Actually, upon reading this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13560.0 my conviction that "I probably don't know anything" was absolutely confirmed; and the whole issue of an obligatory "Salat time" that I was worrying about was made into a trifling ridiculousness. If I'd have read that previously I wouldn't have even bothered reading those verses all night long, let alone making this post! Whenever a point-of-view is well stated, challenged, defended and generally approved by sensible folks, shouldn't it be put in a prominent place (like a sticky at the top of the forum?) so that the new people can see it and not just assume that nothing's been established yet )?
peace
-
No, but it causes me to completely rethink what I thought "salat" was; the issue is no longer "when" I should do it but what it is I am supposed to be doing in the first place.
peace
This is all you have to do. These are your main accoutabilitys for salat ( standard performance ).Five steps...
Accountabilitys-
1.Preperation for prayer -
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the ( prayers ), then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.
2.Focal point/ prayer direction or place -
2125 And you shall take from the situation of Abraham for prayer . ( Face the Temple )
- Affirmaton/ praise
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.?
- The Prayers
You shall pray to your Lord?. 108 2,,,
Example to say "My Lord, forgive and have mercy; and You are the most merciful.?
5.Completion-
(1) 6210 Then, once the prayer is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek God's provisions, and remember God frequently that you may succeed.
This is all you have to do for salat. All you basically have to do is pray to God.
peace
-
Peace rsw, everyone,
Using the search function, I found the following posts very helpful about the number of timed salat of the muslimeen
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14793.msg151204#msg151204
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11539.msg78194#msg78194
-
Peace be upon you,
There is no middle salaat, only dawn and dusk, that which balances you.
Most of us are unbalanced
-
salam Brother
Well I never knew it was discussed earlier..But 1 thing 4sure is that I just learnt the number for salaat time,from U Mashah Allah..
If am not mistaken the Shiahs as well perform 3 times salaat per day.and I guess that they are a step ahead of Us,Mashah Allah..Though its take time..we certainly are in the right direction..
Regards,
Soraya -
So my understanding after digesting the above verses is this
FIRST Salat Sunset
MIDDLE Salat Night-time
LAST SALAT SunriseI thought it was like that as well (except that i though that the night prayer was obligatory), but then I was thinking again, and what popped in my mind is that the two prayers are called "salat al-FAJR" and "salat al-ISHA".
This already gives us the approximate timings (i.e. dawn and evening). Thus, the night prayer cant be the middle one. Besides, the "first salaat" that you mentioned goes from sunset till evening, thus it is more accurate to call it evening prayer, since it is AFTER sunset.
peace
-
salam Brother
Well I never knew it was discussed earlier..But 1 thing 4sure is that I just learnt the number for salaat time,from U Mashah Allah..
If am not mistaken the Shiahs as well perform 3 times salaat per day.and I guess that they are a step ahead of Us,Mashah Allah..Though its take time..we certainly are in the right direction..
Regards,
SorayaSalaam Soraya
Shia believe in five time prayer. But sometimes they combine Zohr + Asr and Maghrab + Ishaa. It is not their common practice only when there is likelihood of missing the prayer as during job period.
Regards -
I can agree with that generally. The Quran speaks of praying late at night, but this is not obligatory It is sunnah technically, as we would be imitating the practice of the last prophet within the Quran. Otherwise I only pray sunrise and sunset prayers (including the times of night close to sunrise and sunset). This is fajr and 'ishaa and fall under all the explanations in the Quran of the times for prayer. That is how I see it. If you wanna pray more than that, good on you. May God enlighten you through those prayers.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I can agree with that generally. The Quran speaks of praying late at night, but this is not obligatory It is sunnah technically, as we would be imitating the practice of the last prophet within the Quran. Otherwise I only pray sunrise and sunset prayers (including the times of night close to sunrise and sunset). This is fajr and 'ishaa and fall under all the explanations in the Quran of the times for prayer. That is how I see it. If you wanna pray more than that, good on you. May God enlighten you through those prayers.
Godbless,
Anwarsalaam Progod
Ishaa is not at sunset.
Regards -
This is what the debates about Salaat times has concluded to.
The minimum is 2 times per day the most is 5 times per day with 3 times being the third opinion.
The times are fajr, morning, noon, afternoon, sunset, nightime.
Others, a minority believe Salaat is not physical but is mental or spiritual. Nobody has been able to convince the others that their interpretation is incorrect.
Any debate about this subject will lead to these conclusion.
Now, either all of these are acceptable or only one is the correct. If only one is correct than the Koran is not sufficient to answer this question and we have to get our answer from the hadith. We all know what that is. If all are equally correct than the Koran is sufficient.
Meanwhile the Bible SEEMS to hint at it being three, the middle ground between two and five.
I believe it depends on your length and method of prayer. Maybe its 5 short ones, or three mediocre ones or two long ones. How is that for wisdom? hail
-
Check out lanes lexicon for the meaning of ishaa and also compare it to ashee. Ishaa means evening. Evening is originally sunset, even in english. As the sun evens into the horizon. In Arabic it can refer to sunset and twilight as well as the time from very late afternon until dawn. In this case the former is the obvious meaning. I am not saying Ishaa is at sunset. I am saying that Ishaa IS sunset, but more correctly evening.
Godbless,
Anwarsalaam Progod
Ishaa is not at sunset.
Regards -
Check out lanes lexicon for the meaning of ishaa and also compare it to ashee. Ishaa means evening. Evening is originally sunset, even in english. As the sun evens into the horizon. In Arabic it can refer to sunset and twilight as well as the time from very late afternon until dawn. In this case the former is the obvious meaning. I am not saying Ishaa is at sunset. I am saying that Ishaa IS sunset, but more correctly evening.
Godbless,
AnwarPeace progod
Sunset is point of time
Ishaa is period of time
You cannot say beoth are same .How "hadissul LUhgha" can be an authority. Please bring evidence from the Quran.
Regards -
Peace,
I don't know what you are talking about by hadissul lugha being an authority for language. Secondly I don't want to argue whether sunset is a point of time or a period of time. That seems pretty pointless to me. Even if you may think it is "crucial." In which case if you do and are ready to argue men down about this, l'll be glad to bow out of this conversation right now.
The sun takes some time to set anyway (not much, but it does take some time). I take ishaa to mean evening which inludes the times approximating sunset, which is early afternoon, sunset, the twilight that follows and the very early part of the night, when all of the sun's light has gone. If you check out Lane's Lexicon you will see that in Classical Arabic it can mean what i have just stated OR the time from late afternoon (approximating sunset) until dawn. I think this is the basis upon which many Muslims feel that they can pray Ishaa' all the way up until the time for fajr (which Islamically is just dawn's twilight). But that doesn't even matter. The meaning of ishaa' as the times that approximate sunset can be found in the dictionaries and more importantly concur with all of the other references in the Quran concerning where prayer being at the edge/end/extreme of daylight, including the parts of the night that approximate the edge/end/extreme of daylight. That's the way I see it. And in case you get stuck on as-salaatul-wustaa or as-salawaatul-wustaa. Wustaa can mean moderate or best. The first has a Quranic reference as to being modest/moderate when we pray (not being loud about our prayer or hiding our prayer). The second can just apply to us giving our all when we pray and not trying to half-as* God.
I don't want a long drawn out argument where you try to prove me wrong by any means possible, or try to prove yourself more alpha than me. I think many people have this complex here. If you want evidence from the Quran read it and the pertinent passages and keep my points in mind. That should be enough. If that's not there's nothing I can do for you, nor you for me. And we can just let each other be.
Godbless,
Anwar
