Wondering about the Quran & Jesus' life & teachings
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Hi,
I'm wondering why is it that there's very few mentioning of Jesus and his teachings in the Quran. I see tons of the old testament being mentioned, but very little of Jesus' teachings/samples. Why's that?
We see a lot of follow-the-prophets-of-the-past ideas, and most of the prophets mentioned are from the old testament. Not much were there about Jesus' life, which is an example of mercy, compassion and love, the virtues that we praise Allah with.
I just made me wonder that the Quran might have been manipulated too, like the Christian bible, "for political purposes" of the time.
A lot of what's written in Quran have been used against us Muslims in that the Quran mentions TONS of incidents war and fights and killings that it made Allah to seem like a bad god. We know it's not that way. But I still wonder why is it that "Jesus' life-style" seemed to lack mentioning in the Quran.
Please, don't get me wrong that I'm insulting the Quran in any way. I'm still learning. And your learn more when you doubt and ask questions, right?
So, please teach me. Thanks.
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Because you don't need to know any Prophet's past to be on the right way.
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???
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Slaam
Use Reason+AQuran and dont mix with Bible Ahadith or any History falacys .open your heart and be sincere withyourself dont eat old folks... sun and Learn and search in whatever place in earth you will find people with reason and logic ideas to be shered and good actions to be done...Allah is closer than our Jugular Vain..Remember that...
Salaam/PEACE/PAz
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Hi,
I'm wondering why is it that there's very few mentioning of Jesus and his teachings in the Quran. I see tons of the old testament being mentioned, but very little of Jesus' teachings/samples. Why's that?
We see a lot of follow-the-prophets-of-the-past ideas, and most of the prophets mentioned are from the old testament. Not much were there about Jesus' life, which is an example of mercy, compassion and love, the virtues that we praise Allah with.
I just made me wonder that the Quran might have been manipulated too, like the Christian bible, "for political purposes" of the time.
A lot of what's written in Quran have been used against us Muslims in that the Quran mentions TONS of incidents war and fights and killings that it made Allah to seem like a bad god. We know it's not that way. But I still wonder why is it that "Jesus' life-style" seemed to lack mentioning in the Quran.
Please, don't get me wrong that I'm insulting the Quran in any way. I'm still learning. And your learn more when you doubt and ask questions, right?
So, please teach me. Thanks.
Actually there are many prophets in the Quran that are not Old Testament like Hud, Saleh, Shueib, Ilyas etc. It also is not true that many of the prophetic stories from the OT is covered in the Koran because many are not.Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joshua, and other charcters like Ruth, Rebecca, and many others are not even mentioned in the Koran. There is also very little about Jacob or Isaac or even Ismael. Mainly Moses and Joseph are covered extensively and to a lesser degree Abraham.
As far as Jesus well maybe that is true but Mary is covered there in the Koran perhaps more than the Gospel . Of course there are other Christian scriptures that elaborated more on Mary but they are not part of the officially accepted Gospel.
As far as war and fighting, the Koran only recognizes defensive warfare and war and fighting in the Koran has to do with the Muhammedan biography. There are not that many verses about that actually its just that some people like to mention those verses often (usually verse 9-5 and verse 9-29). Most discussion in this forum therefore does not deal with the topic of war and fighting since its not covered as much as you think it does in the Koran. Jesus had a different biography but the crucifixion also is not a picnic. Muhammad himself is hardly covered in the Koran except in certain situations. There is no detail of his life in the Koran.
One of the main difference between a Koranic Islam and a Sectarian Islam is the Koranic Islam does not define itself by a specific prophetic biography. Which is why a Koranist can believe in Jesus's crucifixion and yet does not see any theological basis for it since many prophets did not go through the same process. Just because Muhamamd and David and Solomon and in some cases even Moses had a biography of wars and fighting well Abraham or Noah didn't and neither did many other prophets. The Koran says we should not seperate between the prophets since their missions are one but they had different biographies.
As far as tamperig in the Koran, we can only deal with the Koran we have posession of and that have been handed down on us. I have not seen any evidence brought forth by anyone here or elsehwere to indicate that any tampering has occurred. I am simply pointed out that the suspicion you have based on how Jesus is covered is regularlky used by the Islamic sects to delegitimize us precisely because the Koran does not give us a rundown of Muhammad's biography and personal life the way these Sects think Islam should do.
But we do not see it that way. Kaikonred is right to a degree that we sometimes allow the messengers to become the message. Which is not the case. The messenger came with a message, thay are not the message themselves. Their biographies have theological values in how they conducted their challenges and how they overcame and how they respnded. But they are not the message themselves.
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One of the main difference between a Koranic Islam and a Sectarian Islam is the Koranic Islam does not define itself by a specific prophetic biography. Which is why a Koranist can believe in Jesus's crucifixion and yet does not see any theological basis for it since many prophets did not go through the same process.
No, a Koranist cannot believe in Jesus's crucifixion. The Qur'an is VERY clear about this point in Ch 4157 which says,
And their saying ?We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of
Mary, messenger of God!? And they had not killed him, nor
crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those
who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge
except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty.Just wanted to pont that out in case somebody who isn't very familiar with the Qur'an comes across this post and gets misinformed.
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No, a Koranist cannot believe in Jesus's crucifixion. The Qur'an is VERY clear about this point in Ch 4157 which says,
And their saying ?We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of
Mary, messenger of God!? And they had not killed him, nor
crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those
who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge
except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty.Just wanted to pont that out in case somebody who isn't very familiar with the Qur'an comes across this post and gets misinformed.
And their saying is refering to the Jewish tradition and not the Christian tradition. The crucifiixion is establihed by explicit verses in the Gospel which the Koran confirmed. Its the Trinity which is not based on any explicit verses of the Bible which the Koran attacked.
The Judaic tradition claimed it was the Jews who killed Jesus. Lets first look at the verses you mentioned
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The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.
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And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.
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(They have incurred divine displeasure) In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of Allah. that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah.s Word; We need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
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That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
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That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-
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Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
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And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
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For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah.s Way;-
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That they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men's substance wrongfully;- we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.
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But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in Allah and in the Last Day To them shall We soon give a great reward.
On the eve of Passover Jesus was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover. Ulla retorted Do you suppose he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, "Neither shall thou spare nor shall thou conceal him?" With Jesus, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government. (Sanhedrin 43a)
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.
Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus, "Yeshu" and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene," was executed because he practiced sorcery "It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone."
"The Talmud contains a few explicit references to Jesus...These references are certainly not complimentary...There seems little doubt that the account of the execution of Jesus on the eve of Passover does refer to the Christian Jesus...The passage in which Jesus' punishment in hell is described also seems to refer to the Christian Jesus. It is a piece of anti-Christian polemic dating from the post-70 CE period..." --Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 26-27.
"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.
"The more popular accounts--which were nevertheless taken quite seriously--such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists...
"The Hebrew form of the name Jesus--Yeshu--was interpreted as an acronym for the curse, 'may his name and memory be wiped out,' which is used as an extreme form of abuse. In fact, anti-zionist Orthodox Jews, such as Neturey Qarta, sometimes refer to Herzl as 'Herzl Jesus' and I have found in religious zionist writings expressions such as "Nasser Jesus" and more recently 'Arafat Jesus." --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, pp. 97- 98, 118.
http//forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=85609
The Koran was countering these Talmudic traditions and not the Gospel which is explicit regarding Jesus's crucifixion and then his rise. The Trinity and Jesus's divinity is what the Koran did not accept.
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And their saying is referring to the Jewish tradition and not the Christian tradition. The crucifixion is established by explicit verses in the Gospel which the Koran confirmed. Its the Trinity which is not based on any explicit verses of the Bible which the Koran attacked.
The crucificion is established by explicit verses in the New Testament (NT) of the Christian Bible. My friend, the NT you read today is NOT the Gospel (i.e. Isa's Injeel) that the Qur'an talks about. I think this is the root of your problem which prompted you to ask the question in the first place, how come Jesus' teachings aren't mentioned in the Qur'an. You're looking for fabricated "Jesus' teachings" in the Qur'an as found in the NT and not the REAL Jesus' teachings which may or may not be there since we don't have a copy of the REAL Gospel to compare...
Additionally, although i agree with you that it may be refuting the Jewish tradition, however, at the same time, it's refuting the Christian teachings as well. The Qur'an NEVER confirms the NT idea of Jesus' crucifiction, as you say (please provide me a verse where it does). On the contrary! "Their saying" is referring to EXACTLY that which follows, "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of God!? And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty."
It is irrelevant whose doctrine this "saying" falls into, be it Jewish or Christian, the point being if the doctrine says Jesus was crucified this verse right here refutes it point blank.
You're reading the Bible and the Talmud like you're reading the Qur'an. It's like reading a semi-fiction and a non-fiction book about one person then asking how come the the non-fiction isn't mentionining that the person had red hair whereas the whole point of the semi-fiction book is that he had red hair. Do you kind of see my point here? )
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Whew ... that's a lot to try to understand ... )
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It has been said by other posters, but I will insist.
3isa is a prophet, neither more or less than other prophets. His message was the message of every prophet, condensed, explained in the Qur'an, which comes to set things right in previous messages that might have been confused or obscured or corrupted. No messenger is above the other or below, they are one just as God is One. It is not disrespectful to mention more or less of a prophet, beause it doesn't matter, we know the message and we know he is a messenger and we know he is one with the other messengers. There is no prophet championship or anything like that. If we praise one, we praise all.
Of course, every person may have more need or feel more comforted or preference for the way or personality of one or other prophet, or saintly person, but they are always one. We do not need a counter to show them respect. In the heart of a believer, they are one, as, in sha' Allah, we will all be one.
Salaam
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I'm wondering why is it that there's very few mentioning of Jesus and his teachings in the Quran. I see tons of the old testament being mentioned, but very little of Jesus' teachings/samples. Why's that?
We see a lot of follow-the-prophets-of-the-past ideas, and most of the prophets mentioned are from the old testament. Not much were there about Jesus' life, which is an example of mercy, compassion and love, the virtues that we praise Allah with.
The occurrence of Jesus in Quran is still within the top 5, he's somewhere between #2 or #3 although he's below Moses.. but again this is not the competition of prophets...
And then search for "Compassion, Mercy, Sabr/Patience" and you'll find plenty...I just made me wonder that the Quran might have been manipulated too, like the Christian bible, "for political purposes" of the time.
It's possible..
A lot of what's written in Quran have been used against us Muslims in that the Quran mentions TONS of incidents war and fights and killings that it made Allah to seem like a bad god. We know it's not that way. But I still wonder why is it that "Jesus' life-style" seemed to lack mentioning in the Quran.
Be more clear on "Jesus Life Style".. what is it specifically?
Salam / Peace
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The crucificion is established by explicit verses in the New Testament (NT) of the Christian Bible. My friend, the NT you read today is NOT the Gospel (i.e. Isa's Injeel) that the Qur'an talks about. I think this is the root of your problem which prompted you to ask the question in the first place, how come Jesus' teachings aren't mentioned in the Qur'an. You're looking for fabricated "Jesus' teachings" in the Qur'an as found in the NT and not the REAL Jesus' teachings which may or may not be there since we don't have a copy of the REAL Gospel to compare...
Additionally, although i agree with you that it may be refuting the Jewish tradition, however, at the same time, it's refuting the Christian teachings as well. The Qur'an NEVER confirms the NT idea of Jesus' crucifiction, as you say (please provide me a verse where it does). On the contrary! "Their saying" is referring to EXACTLY that which follows, "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of God!? And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty."
It is irrelevant whose doctrine this "saying" falls into, be it Jewish or Christian, the point being if the doctrine says Jesus was crucified this verse right here refutes it point blank.
You're reading the Bible and the Talmud like you're reading the Qur'an. It's like reading a semi-fiction and a non-fiction book about one person then asking how come the the non-fiction isn't mentionining that the person had red hair whereas the whole point of the semi-fiction book is that he had red hair. Do you kind of see my point here? )
The issue of whether the Torah and Gospel the Koran is talking about is not the scriptures we had today has been covered many times here and eslewhere. I have never seen any strong evidence of that and my research has led to me to believe otherwise. Anyways this is another subject altogether.
First it is wrong to say that a Koranist can not beoieve in the crucifixion of Jesus as there is no theological reason not to. My whole point was that it does not make a difference whether he was or not which is something that Christians have a hard time understanding since Jesus is so tied to their theology. The reaosn why Jesus is such a theological issue for them such as crucifixion or resurrection is because the issue of Jesus's divinity. It is that that the Koran attacked and it is that that violates the Koranic but also Biblical theology since God is distinct from all His creation. The trinity is not explicitly mentioned in the Gospel and was introduced as a doctrine in the 3rd century. Christians when asked to provide evidence from the Gospel rely on implicit vague verses and selective quoting of verses. But whether Jesus was crucified or not has no real theological significance if you look at scriptures. It is true that the Gospel is Jesus centric but that is because Jesus was the word of God. He was not given the Koran but was given the holy spirit and he was the Koran. Moses meanwhile talked to God face to face. Every prophet has something unique in him and each has their own biography but there is no reason to create a theology out of it like establishing a calendar based on the Muhammedan hijra or making the Haj an obligation when many prophets never went to Haj in Mecca etc.
We know from the Koran and Gospel that many prophets were killed by their people but only Jesus we know of was given the holy spirit which is why he spoke from the cradle and preached when he was a child something that Moses or Muhammad could never do.
Muslims and Christians will find this hard to understand and some of them will accuse us of undermining Muhammad or Jesus. We are not, its just that we do not seperate between them as the Koran tells us. Jesus quoted many prophets from the OT, he certainly did not seperate himself from them and the Koran never seperated Muhammad from the other prophets.
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".... Moses meanwhile talked to God face to face..."
Is this what happened or Moses expressed a desire to see God but could not bear the sight and fell unconscious??
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".... Moses meanwhile talked to God face to face..."
Is this what happened or Moses expressed a desire to see God but could not bear the sight and fell unconscious??
I did not mean face to face they way you understood it. He did not see God. I meant Moses talked to God directly from the bush.