Ramadan
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Hello Ayman,
So the whole thing was about the moon..mm.I have read the article before but this morning made it a lot more clearer.So it is like
12 full moons = 30 days x 12 months = 360 days
Year starts with the full moon bearing the title ?Shahr Ramadhan? Red Full Moon ? in the summer solstice.(Happy New Year?!!)
This Red Full Moon and the following 3 full moons are the restricted months, i.e the 4 restricted full moons.
(90 for the first 3 full moon + 10 total days, the period from full-moon to crescent for the 4th full moon=100 day restriction). Those who witness the red moon should be able to fast 10 days..or do other duties as instructed in the quran.What a way to start the new yearI wonder if anyone is living in the equatorial region has ever witnessed this red moon if at all?
So where do we stand now? What "calendar" are we following? Does it matter if we still keep to the mainstream one?
I know this may sound _______, we have count to the full moons to know our real age. Compared with the mainstream calender, we all are a lot older even in terms of years....
peace -
I would like to revoke my line "Those who witness the red moon should be able to fast 10 days.."
I could not sleep last night and also today I could not concentrate on what I was supposed to do.In the Quran God did not explicitly impose a 10 day fast(or whatever number) to anyone.He only said fast "therein".No 10 days,no siree..I am convinced, I spent some hours reading the Quran...ONLY those who violated some laws were to fast during this period of time-the red moon thing.
..so no Eid Festival and forget about making money selling stuff at the ramadhan bazaar "scorching heat bazaar,that's freaking bizarre". I salute those brothers/sisters who have the courage to go against the norm...but please do be careful though...
Hope God would grant me peace during the time when the muslim world starts fasting while I would just munch away..Hopefully no "holier than thou coz I am fasting and you aint" look given to my face...AND not forgetting the non muslims freaks/busybodies/scums who ever called me liar/hypocrite/"not
"serious about his religion" each time I tried to explain why I stopped doing certain things when I stopped being a sunni.God damn them!!!!!! I am sure I have to fight off their p_ _ k breadthed inquiring minds....they laugh at what they don understand...JIHAD!!I hope the sunni brothers/sisters would find how easier life would be with regards to following the quran on such things like fasting..
offtopicI still remember the time how the local muslim authority talked down at me for getting married via a civil ceremony. They told me my marriage was void..I gave them my infamous "f... y.." letter-Of course I did no use profanity but I challenged them at producing any evidence from the quran regarding how one should getting married.I totally disregarded their stupid views --and oh yeah I am not circumcised!!!!OOOH yeah!!!
O0
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Peace all;
It is one month according to your Lord; let me tell you why?(٥
Ramadan month is the in which was sent down the Qur'an as a guide to mankind also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment. So everyone of you witness that month should fast it, but if anyone is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you He does not want to put you to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful. (2-185)Thus, the fasting is for a month of Ramadan.
Now how long is one month?
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The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve so ordained by Him in the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred; that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves. (9-36)
Thus, one year is 12 months. And as we know, one year is the time when 4 seasons are completed (Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter), 365 days. Thus, one month is about 30 days. And if one month is ten days, then the year would be 12 month X 10 = 120 days (two seasons only).
Moreover, the following would show the length of one month
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We have enjoined on man Kindness to his parents in pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth. The carrying of the (child) to his weaning is thirty months. At length, when he reaches the age of full strength and attains forty years, he says "O my Lord! Grant me that I may be grateful for Thy favor, which Thou hast bestowed upon me, and upon both my parents, and that I may work righteousness such as Thou mayest approve; and be gracious to me in my issue. Truly have I turned to Thee and truly do I bow (to Thee) in Islam." (46-15)
Is that how long does it take and not 30 month X 10 days= 300 days
(٤
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) for those who carry (life within their wombs) their period is until they deliver their burdens and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy. (65-4)
As we all know, the woman gets her period every month (average every thirty days)
Thus, we have to Fast for one Month that equals 30 days average.
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They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say they are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for men, and for pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back; it is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors and fear Allah that ye may prosper. (2-189)
Thus? the mark of Ramadan month is the beginning of new moon.
Peace
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(٩
They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say they are but signs to mark fixed periods of time for men, and for pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back; it is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors and fear Allah that ye may prosper. (2-189)
Thus? the mark of Ramadan month is the beginning of new moon.
Peace
Salaam belal, all
These are "genuine" questions
1- Why is fasting or "ramadan" not mentioned when God is giving the reply for questiong about "crescents "?
2- What's the relation between "ahilla crescents" and entering houses through their proper doors? -
Peace Soof,
Something that recently came to me whilst reading and discussing the Qur'an with people is the use of stand alone words to disguise the true meaning. Words like Qur'an, Islam, Muslim, Ramadhan are words that should be driectly translated to english as well so that a fuller meaning can be gained. Otherwise it appears like they are words common only to Arab muslims which removes the universality of the Message. It also removes the true meaning of the words. Muslim essentially means monotheist. Islam means devotion wholly to the God. Qur'an means THE Recitation. An arab person would read these words and understand the meaning whereas a non-arab would read these words and inherit the meaning they know from the world and culture around them, not what the words actually mean. When we translate Ramadhan to Scorching Heat we have to ask ourselves, what does this mean now? Instead of looking to our calendars for an arbitrary month.
I agree with you. Those invented proper names mask the true universal message.
Muslim essentially means monotheist. Islam means devotion wholly to the God.
The relationship between salam, islam, muslim is a fairly common one in the Arabic language. Those forms have the following meaning peace, peacemaking, peacemaker. They don't mean monotheism or devotion to the god. Of course when one is monotheistic and devoted wholly to the god, then one is making peace with the god and the truth but this is an implication, not the primary meaning.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Rajah,
I could not sleep last night and also today I could not concentrate on what I was supposed to do.In the Quran God did not explicitly impose a 10 day fast(or whatever number) to anyone.He only said fast "therein".No 10 days,no siree..I am convinced, I spent some hours reading the Quran...ONLY those who violated some laws were to fast during this period of time-the red moon thing.
The god tells us in 2184 that the fast is for a few days (ayam ma3doodat). A few days is 3-10 days. Then we are told in 2185 to complete the count of "a few days". What does completing the count of 3-10 mean? It means ten days.
This is confirmed by 2196 where we hear of a "complete 10" and 2827 which talks about completing the count by reaching 10.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace sister Samia,
The answer to the first question is obvious so I will try to answer the second one.
2- What's the relation between "ahilla crescents" and entering houses through their proper doors?
The front doors (full-moons) are clear and obvious while the back door (hilal) is not very clear and visible. However, there is no problem if we exit from the back door. So the "hilal" can be used to time the "exit" but not the "entry".
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaams All,
w.r.t brother Aymans view, here is an alternative translation.
Using lanes and Quranic Dictionary;
2189
The ayat?s are following one from the other
2188
And do not consume your money between unjustly by bribing the decision makers so that you may consume a part of the other peoples money sinfully while you know.
2189
They ask you of the company of such , say they the slanderers to mankind and the/ir Desire and is no virtue that you enter into affairs from the wrong way but the righteous he who fears and enters into affairs from the right way and fear Allah so that you may attain success.God Bless.
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Peace sister Samia,
The answer to the first question is obvious so I will try to answer the second one.
The front doors (full-moons) are clear and obvious while the back door (hilal) is not very clear and visible. However, there is no problem if we exit from the back door. So the "hilal" can be used to time the "exit" but not the "entry".
Peace,
Ayman
Thanks Ayman
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peace , all
Weather you fast 3, 10, or 30 days for Rahmadan, it is acceptable...
And if you redeem fasting by feeding a poor person because of difficulty, it is acceptable, but it is better for you if you fast if you only knew...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596892.msg176228#msg176228
peace
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This Red Full Moon and the following 3 full moons are the restricted months, i.e the 4 restricted full moons.
(90 for the first 3 full moon + 10 total days, the period from full-moon to crescent for the 4th full moon=100 day restriction). Those who witness the red moon should be able to fast 10 days..or do other duties as instructed in the quran.What a way to start the new yearPeace Rajah,
I have a Question; according to the above quotation, Is Shaher Rammadan before the Restricted 4 Months?, or Shaher Rammadan is one of the 4 Restricted ones and is the first one?Thanks
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salaam Belal,
The Quran 936 says 4 months are restricted. I believe Shaher Rammadan is the begining of the 4 months. In the quran I believe there is no actual names of any months, for e.g. December,January or their conterparts in any other languages.Extra If 1 lunar month is 30 days..4 would be 4 x 30 (or if you will 29.5) (120 days & not 100 days as stated in the textbox below) ..Well done..
So in theory (please correct me if I am wrong), the 4 months must end with the appearance of an almost full moon the night before 5th full moon.
I believe you will ask more questions based on my above answer.. D
please visit the thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597065.0
cheers. -
salaam Belal,
The Quran 936 says 4 months are restricted. I believe Shaher Rammadan is the begining of the 4 months.Peace Brother peace
I also noted that Ayman claims the same, Rammadan is the first of the 4 restricted months.Please I would like your commont on the following post where the Quran clairly disapprove Ayman theroy regarding that Rammadan has been in Summer time since prophet Mohammed
Peace all,
Another point I would like to share with you; The following is a Quotion from Ayman 4 years ago
Begin Quote
Sister, you ignore that you are starting to count 4 "periods" from "ramadan", so according to you the hunting restriction is early fall-winter. Where I am in the Northern Hemisphere, fall is deer hunting season because that is when they are the most plentiful. Hence, your preservation of land-game argument is not factual.
End QuoteAs you can note Rammadan is the begining of 4 restricted Months. Thus according to Ayman, if Rammadan Moon starts in June 15 (solistic Moon), then the end of the 4 restricted Months would be in about October 15. In this time according to Ayman would be Fall time.
Now let us explore the following
( ( ( ( (
A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances. (1) Go ye, then for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him. (2) And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the pagans. If, then ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. (3) (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those pagans with whom Ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term for Allah loveth the righteous. (4) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (9-5)
As you can note the war would start after October 15--Fall Time and not in the heat of Summer time.
Now read the following, from the same Chapter
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Those who were left behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger of Allah they hated to strive and fight with their goods and their persons, in the Cause of Allah they said "Go not forth in the heat. Say "The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat." If only they could understand! (9-81)
Now is the period after October 15 Hot or should be...Mild or Cold? Or Maybe it was Global Warming? confused
Peace
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Salaam Belal,
"Now is the period after October 15 Hot or should be...Mild or Cold? Or Maybe it was Global Warming?"
Well I live in a tropical island. But October should be relatively cooler in either hemispheres.95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the communion, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God?s messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say?Do not mobilize in the heat.? Say ?The fire of Hell is far hotter,? if they could only understand.
So some were asked to fight in the hot days/summer & this would mean if we see the 4 restricted months stricly as the hot season,this fight would contradict the wait for the 4 restricted months(hot seaon) to be over . So the 4 months may not necessarily be all the way hot/summer OR the start of the 4 months would be earlier than the summer season or (much) later after the onset of the summer season..
If the above discussion has kept to the intended meanings of the words/phrases as found in Quran..Good work..yay..
see you.. -
So some were asked to fight in the hot days/summer & this would mean if we see the 4 restricted months stricly as the hot season,this fight would contradict the wait for the 4 restricted months(hot seaon) to be over . So the 4 months may not necessarily be all the way hot/summer OR the start of the 4 months would be earlier than the summer season or (much) later after the onset of the summer season..
If the above discussion has kept to the intended meanings of the words/phrases as found in Quran..Good work..yay..
see you..Peace;
I believe that Rammadan (the first month of the restricted months) had to be 4 month before summer season, in the story of chapter 9.
What do you think?
Peace
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Peace;
I believe that Rammadan (the first month of the restricted months) had to be 4 month before summer season, in the story of chapter 9.
What do you think?
Peace
Salaam Bilalhammad,
You posted excellent evidence from the Quran against Ayman?s theory that Ramadan had to be in the peak of the hot season. It took me a while to work it out last night and, I noticed that Rajah too had worked it out above.
May be it is time to move to the next thread about the restricted months
The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteousMay I take the opportunity to remind you that if you follow the way Al-Qur?an was revealed, that is piecemeal and in stages, your posts could be as widely read as they deserve. Your important contribution was largely overlooked, perhaps because the question was not put properly, as big chunk of a post puts off many who take part in the debate.
Just my thoughts hmm
8714 But those will prosper who purify themselves,
peace -
Salaam Bilalhammad,
You posted excellent evidence from the Quran against Ayman?s theory that Ramadan had to be in the peak of the hot season. It took me a while to work it out last night and, I noticed that Rajah too had worked it out above.
May be it is time to move to the next thread about the restricted months
The count of the months with God is twelve months in God's record the day He created the heavens and the Earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight those who set up partners collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteousMay I take the opportunity to remind you that if you follow the way Al-Qur?an was revealed, that is piecemeal and in stages, your posts could be as widely read as they deserve. Your important contribution was largely overlooked, perhaps because the question was not put properly, as big chunk of a post puts off many who take part in the debate.
Just my thoughts hmm
8714 But those will prosper who purify themselves,
peacePeace Frida,
I'm sick to my stomic when me or others find clues from Quran to help us solve our differances and become united, and then someone come along to weaking it, as Samia did. It makes me very Sad.Any way, thank you for your efforts as will, which shows your devotion to find the truth. Ayman theory is what we should solve first; as you know, in his post that I quoted, he believes that Rammadan is the first month of the Four restricted month; and therefore, Rammadan had to fall after June 25th, which is not true according to 9-81.
My next step is to prove that non of the people who came after prophet changed the timing of Rammadan (I worked the prove that shows that it did not happen).
Peace and may God Bless you -
Hello all,
Well it makes sense that ramadan should start earlier as it it were to cross over to the cooler months nearing winter, it would be very dangerous. For the cooler months we need food (thermogenic-yes we need food all year round too) and shelter and maybe the skins/furs of animals as extra clothings to keep warm. Well one should remember quran was revealed about 1200 years ago and the message had remained the same and also generations way way way before that also would have had such a similar Book Of God for their use. Of course the state of things now is quite different in terms in clothing etc, but there's no guarantee.BUT now, we need proof. Hopefully anyone of us would be able to come up with the answer.
salaam..... -
Peace Frida,
My next step is to prove that non of the people who came after prophet changed the timing of Rammadan (I worked the prove that shows that it did not happen).
Peace and may God Bless youSalaam Belalhammad,
If you could share this with us in a new thread, I am sure it would be greatly appreciated by those in search of the truth.
However please do remember you would have quite a few, including Ayman (I hope), on the other side grilling you and asking you some probing questions.3139 Do not be weak, and do not grieve, for you will have the upper hand, if you are believers.