Rahmadan- guide to fasting in Rahmadan
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Salaam
I am afraid if you end the debate on your evidence as the last word then it does not solve anything.
I still ask Soof and Ahmed Bilal to explain further how they understand "shahru ramadhan"I hope Ayman would be kind enought to answer for the sake of all Neil's concerns.
peaceEnding the debate in the truth is what matters;
The Truth is Month = Shahar
The Truth is Rammadan = the month when Moslem Fast.
The Truth is Scorching Moon does not happen in Summer time as Ayman Said nor in any other spacific time; morover Scorching Moon does not happen every year.
The Truth is Moslems should use the Moon Stages to Calculate the period of Month.
The Truth is "Witnessing " can be done by Sighting or by Hearing.
The Truth is Blind people can Fast as other Moslems.If the above is not The Truth from our Lord, what else can it be.
I worship The God who Makes his Message very Clear to every human to understand hail
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http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Salaam Soof
If this is your authority then please could you explain the two laylat al-qadr scenario as raised by Neil here
Peace all,
I have read Ayman's articles on Ramadan and Laylat Al-Qadr and have questions that I hope can be answered.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Ayman you seem to say that Ramadan is around the time of the summer solstice (first full moon after it until the next full moon) and that the restrictions on game hunting associated with Hajj in the following months have much to do with the seasons and animal behavior within these months. I quote below.."The timing of the restriction is significant, especially given that the restriction is on hunting wild-life. Interestingly, the restriction doesn't cover domesticated livestock animals (see 51). Why is that? The answer may be because summer is the time when most wild animals and even wild birds give birth. By killing a wild female animal, you are not only killing it but you would also be inadvertently killing all its new-born off-spring who cannot feed and fend for themselves...."
"...Of course, our analysis indicates that the restriction period would be different between the southern and the northern hemisphere. This is fine. There is nothing in the great reading that indicates that they should be the same for people all over the world. We should orient our direction to the truth from our Lord wherever we are, whether in the Southern or Northern hemisphere (see 2149). "
I understand that Ayman means that in the Southern Hemisphere Ramadan will take place after the first full moon after the summer solstice here (I am in Australia) ie after 22 December. Consequently I also take Ayman to mean that we will also have our own 'sacred/restricted months' in which we in the Southern Hemisphere will observe our own Hajj in the months after our Ramadan and hunting restrictions which are appropriate in those months?
If there are 2 Ramadans does it not follow that there are also two sets of sacred months/hajj? Will the location of Hajj cater to pilgrims over a period of 6 months in the year or are there two different locations? surely not?
It also follows that there would be two laylat al-qadr per year? Will there not also be two calendars with two different new years day as the count of full moon months is to begin in the period between one summer solstice to the next?
Thanks for your clarification
peace
Ps I am off to bed now and, as I see Ayman is on line, hopefully I'll read his response this morning.
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Bring forth a Scripture better than this in guidance, if u truthful
2183 O you who have believed, you are ordered to fast as those before you were eat , it could be that you fear and obey ( God). &
2184 At certain times ; so whoever of you is ill or on a journey, then finish at differnt times handshake. And concerning those who cannot endure it eat, they may redeem by feeding any of the poorest of the poor handshake; and whoever gives alms volutarily then it is best for him yes; and it is best that you fast, if you are able. yes
2185 The Quran was sent down in the hottest month sun, to guide the people and to clarify the guidance and the Difference between Right and Wronge police. So one should fast the entire month wow, whoever of you witnesses it. And whoever is ill or on a journey, then finish on different days . God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship nope; and so that you may complete the term handshake, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
And if u caint then fear the Fire, whose fuel is people and stones...
While certain people tryin to cause confusion, then bring ur proofs then...Or do u dispute about the revelations without having any explicite knowledge...
We all know the times we are to fast... and that it is the entire month Rahmadan...and if you are a stray, then count in the other months then... P The God has made it known for us when we are to fast...And He dont want to make things difficult...but those with disease in there hearts want that u be diverted into a great diversion brickwall confused...
Bring a translation using a word other than month then if u dont agree... But dont keep disputin without proof nope... I brought my translation jedi...now u bring one better if u dont agree with my word usage....
Are u fastin this month? Or do u not believe? Or what is the problem? And if you are fastin this month Rahmadan but u dont believe and are disputin, then do u uphold what u have no knowledge of?
Alas, each of them wished that they had a seperate Scripture!
O you who believe, you are ordered to fast as those before you were, it could be you fear and obey.
A designated month P; so whoever is ill or traveling; then finish in differnt months P........ect...
The Quran was sent down in the month Rahmadan P,....................So one should fast the month P, whoever witnesses it........ P
What is the hottest month? Huh? Il tell u it is the month of Rahmadan on the Islamic calender...and the hottest month is August in the regular calender....either way u should fast it, and if ill ect... then fast in the other months P
Im startin to get pissed of >(...So if u caint bring the correct translation then you should just shut yo mouth and listen! And if you do bring a translation on the contray to mines and also others, then it better be clear for the people... P
peace im out...
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Salaam
I would appreciate if you could elaborate further. It has become a typical attitude on this forum that participants leave a topic unsolved with some vague phrase.
peace
Sure.
If "shahru ramadhan" is translated as "red full-moon", then that explains exactly when the fasting period would occur. Also, if it simply means "full-moon of blazing heat", it would imply the first full-moon after the easily-recognized period of intense heat, directly after the summer solstice. The concept of a "few days" would make complete sense because the full-moon would only last for a short period - the cycle would last about 10 days, which could definately be considered a "few". So, the start and end time would be explained, and so would the duration of the period; and it would be based on al-Qur'an's timetable, not an arbitrary "month", which could literally mean anything depending on the culture. This method would be universal...
Peace.
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Salaam Soof
If this is your authority then please could you explain the two laylat al-qadr scenario as raised by Neil here
Peace all,
I have read Ayman's articles on Ramadan and Laylat Al-Qadr and have questions that I hope can be answered.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Ayman you seem to say that Ramadan is around the time of the summer solstice (first full moon after it until the next full moon) and that the restrictions on game hunting associated with Hajj in the following months have much to do with the seasons and animal behavior within these months. I quote below.."The timing of the restriction is significant, especially given that the restriction is on hunting wild-life. Interestingly, the restriction doesn't cover domesticated livestock animals (see 51). Why is that? The answer may be because summer is the time when most wild animals and even wild birds give birth. By killing a wild female animal, you are not only killing it but you would also be inadvertently killing all its new-born off-spring who cannot feed and fend for themselves...."
"...Of course, our analysis indicates that the restriction period would be different between the southern and the northern hemisphere. This is fine. There is nothing in the great reading that indicates that they should be the same for people all over the world. We should orient our direction to the truth from our Lord wherever we are, whether in the Southern or Northern hemisphere (see 2149). "
I understand that Ayman means that in the Southern Hemisphere Ramadan will take place after the first full moon after the summer solstice here (I am in Australia) ie after 22 December. Consequently I also take Ayman to mean that we will also have our own 'sacred/restricted months' in which we in the Southern Hemisphere will observe our own Hajj in the months after our Ramadan and hunting restrictions which are appropriate in those months?
If there are 2 Ramadans does it not follow that there are also two sets of sacred months/hajj? Will the location of Hajj cater to pilgrims over a period of 6 months in the year or are there two different locations? surely not?
It also follows that there would be two laylat al-qadr per year? Will there not also be two calendars with two different new years day as the count of full moon months is to begin in the period between one summer solstice to the next?
Thanks for your clarification
peace
Ps I am off to bed now and, as I see Ayman is on line, hopefully I'll read his response this morning.
Well you tell me why there cannot be two different hajjs and two different periods of fasting when there are two hemispheres? It seems perfectly logical and doesn't contradict with what is in the Qur'an. Following through that we should observe the fast during the period of hottest season then people in their respective hemispheres will fast in their respective periods. Calenders are arbitrary to begin with the only things that we should have faith in Especially when referring to God is what was here before mankind (not a culturally based calendar made by Man), the sun, the moon and their respective orbits. How we form a calendar based on them is likely to change from area to area but it is all relative. Because Muhammad was in the NORTHERN Hemisphere the night of measure is according to the northern hemisphere, but I do not see how that lends anything to the idea of Ramadhan as the night of measure is an event that's already passed..
Adieu
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Well you tell me why there cannot be two different hajjs and two different periods of fasting when there are two hemispheres? It seems perfectly logical and doesn't contradict with what is in the Qur'an. Following through that we should observe the fast during the period of hottest season then people in their respective hemispheres will fast in their respective periods. Calenders are arbitrary to begin with the only things that we should have faith in Especially when referring to God is what was here before mankind (not a culturally based calendar made by Man), the sun, the moon and their respective orbits. How we form a calendar based on them is likely to change from area to area but it is all relative. Because Muhammad was in the NORTHERN Hemisphere the night of measure is according to the northern hemisphere, but I do not see how that lends anything to the idea of Ramadhan as the night of measure is an event that's already passed..
Adieu
Soof,
Do you understand that you are committing the grestest Sin when you speak about God what He did not say. My advice to you is as followBefore pormoting for The Submitter of Northern Hemisphere and The Submitter of South Hemisphere, you need to have Quranic Proof. A Quranic proof that supports the existing of two Qudar nights and two Rammadan Months and to divide Submitter By Location.
Now while finding answers, what would you say to a person who lives 6 month in Northern Hemisphere and 6 month in south Hemisphere when he asks you if He should Fast the Two Rammadan or not?
Peace
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Sure.
If "shahru ramadhan" is translated as "red full-moon", then that explains exactly when the fasting period would occur. Also, if it simply means "full-moon of blazing heat", it would imply the first full-moon after the easily-recognized period of intense heat, directly after the summer solstice. The concept of a "few days" would make complete sense because the full-moon would only last for a short period - the cycle would last about 10 days, which could definately be considered a "few". So, the start and end time would be explained, and so would the duration of the period; and it would be based on al-Qur'an's timetable, not an arbitrary "month", which could literally mean anything depending on the culture. This method would be universal...
Peace.
So do u believe that we should only fast as long as the moon is full in this period? And then break the fast when the moon is not full or half ect...
Why no just fast from the full moon till the next full moon ( month )?
Or mabey im just misunderstandin somthin
God made the sun and the moon so that we can keep count......
696 Initiator of morning and Maker of the night to reside in; and the sun and the moon for counting. Such is the measure of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.
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Sure.
If "shahru ramadhan" is translated as "red full-moon", then that explains exactly when the fasting period would occur. Also, if it simply means "full-moon of blazing heat", it would imply the first full-moon after the easily-recognized period of intense heat, directly after the summer solstice. and it would be based on al-Qur'an's timetable, not an arbitrary "month", which could literally mean anything depending on the culture. This method would be universal...
Peace.
Salaam Ahmed Bilal
hmm
Summer Solstice
As the sun spirals its longest dance,
Cleanse us
As nature shows bounty and fertility
Bless us
Let all things live with loving intent
And to fulfill their truest destiny Wiccan blessing for Summer
Solstice, Midsummer or Litha means a stopping or standing still of the sun. It is the longest day of the year and the time when the sun is at its maximum elevation.
This date has had spiritual significance for thousands of years as humans have been amazed by the great power of the sun. The Celts celebrated with bonfires that would add to the sun's energy, Christians placed the feast of St John the Baptist towards the end of June and it is also the festival of Li, the Chinese Goddess of light.
Like other religious groups, Pagans are in awe of the incredible strength of the sun and the divine powers that create life. For Pagans this spoke in the Wheel of the Year is a significant point. The Goddess took over the earth from the horned God at the beginning of spring and she is now at the height of her power and fertility. For some Pagans the Summer Solstice marks the marriage of the God and Goddess and see their union as the force that creates the harvest's fruits.This is a time to celebrate growth and life but for Pagans, who see balance in the world and are deeply aware of the ongoing shifting of the seasons it is also time to acknowledge that the sun will now begin to decline once more towards winter.
When celebrating midsummer Pagans draw on diverse traditions. In England thousands of Pagans and non-Pagans go to places of ancient religious sites such as Stonehenge and Avebury to see the sun rising on the first morning of summer.
http//www.new-age.co.uk/peace
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. Because Muhammad was in the NORTHERN Hemisphere the night of measure is according to the northern hemisphere, but I do not see how that lends anything to the idea of Ramadhan as the night of measure is an event that's already passed..
AdieuSalaam Soof,
Well!! ask your guru Ayman who says
and surely the night of measure according to 3639 occurs many times in the year every year and it is the same in the southern and northern hemispheres. One of those nights of measure which also had a scorching full-moon is when the great reading was descended. This doesn?t mean that the night of measure and a scorching full-moon only occurred one time over 1400 years ago. .
Many, many cultures the world over perform solstice ceremonies. At their root an ancient fear that the failing light would never return unless humans intervened with anxious vigil or antic celebration.And perhaps, our impulse to hold onto certain traditions today -- candles, evergreens, feasting and generosity -- are echoes of a past that extends many thousands of years further than we ever before imagined.
"Shall we liken Christmas to the web in a loom? There are many weavers, who work into the pattern the experience of their lives. When one generation goes, another comes to take up the weft where it has been dropped. The pattern changes as the mind changes, yet never begins quite anew. At first, we are not sure that we discern the pattern, but at last we see that, unknown to the weavers themselves, something has taken shape before our eyes, and that they have made something very beautiful, something which compels our understanding."
--Earl W. Count, 4,000 Years of Christmas
http//www.candlegrove.com/solstice.html#turta
peace
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Salaam Anthonywallace,
Its Ramadan NOT Rahmadan
peaceThanks,
peace
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Soof,
Do you understand that you are committing the grestest Sin when you speak about God what He did not say. My advice to you is as followBefore pormoting for The Submitter of Northern Hemisphere and The Submitter of South Hemisphere, you need to have Quranic Proof. A Quranic proof that supports the existing of two Qudar nights and two Rammadan Months and to divide Submitter By Location.
Now while finding answers, what would you say to a person who lives 6 month in Northern Hemisphere and 6 month in south Hemisphere when he asks you if He should Fast the Two Rammadan or not?
Peace
Understand this If you observe shahru ramadhan then you begin your fast. So anywhere on earth you observe it you fast. This differs from North to South obviously. The Qur'anic proof is
The month of Ramadhan therein was sent down the Qur'an is a guidance unto mankind, and with evidences one of the Books of guidance and the distinction. So whosoever of you witnesseth the month, he shall fast it, and whosoever sick or journeying, for him the like number of other days.
2185This is obviously a translation. What we differ about is whether it is Month or Full Moon.
Whoever witnesses the full moon should fast it therefore if he observes it once then he shall fast it. If he observes it again he shall fast it.
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Salaam Soof,
Well!! ask your guru Ayman who says
Many, many cultures the world over perform solstice ceremonies. At their root an ancient fear that the failing light would never return unless humans intervened with anxious vigil or antic celebration.And perhaps, our impulse to hold onto certain traditions today -- candles, evergreens, feasting and generosity -- are echoes of a past that extends many thousands of years further than we ever before imagined.
"Shall we liken Christmas to the web in a loom? There are many weavers, who work into the pattern the experience of their lives. When one generation goes, another comes to take up the weft where it has been dropped. The pattern changes as the mind changes, yet never begins quite anew. At first, we are not sure that we discern the pattern, but at last we see that, unknown to the weavers themselves, something has taken shape before our eyes, and that they have made something very beautiful, something which compels our understanding."
--Earl W. Count, 4,000 Years of Christmas
http//www.candlegrove.com/solstice.html#turta
peace
Sorry I should have been clearer I meant the Night of Measure i.e. when the Qur'an was sent down is an event that has already passed.
We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power
971I'm not sure I agree that the Night of measure occurs several times every year. I think that there are things we can observe that may have happened on the Night of Measure but the actual Sura 97 describes a singular event. If you have a different understanding please share it.
Note this isn't sun worship or season worship. The sun and the moon are both indicators for Man, this is in the Qur'an. We use the moon in this case to begin our prescribed fast. That is it.
Peace.
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Sorry I should have been clearer I meant the Night of Measure i.e. when the Qur'an was sent down is an event that has already passed.
We have indeed revealed this (Message) in the Night of Power
971I'm not sure I agree that the Night of measure occurs several times every year. I think that there are things we can observe that may have happened on the Night of Measure but the actual Sura 97 describes a singular event. If you have a different understanding please share it.
Note this isn't sun worship or season worship. The sun and the moon are both indicators for Man, this is in the Qur'an. We use the moon in this case to begin our prescribed fast. That is it.
Peace.
Salaam soof
No You are in fact using solistic event for the moon. In other words chasing the sun god for fasting in different countries.Starting from summer hail and next country summer hail and next hail, first I beleive in the NORTHERN Hemisphere and finishing in the summer of the Southern Hemisphere hail
peace
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Regarding two Night of Measure's...because the Qur'an was revealed in the NORTHERN hemisphere, the Night of Measure (an event which has come and gone and does not reoccur - revealing of the Qur'an) occured only once in the respective summer solstice of the Northern Hemisphere. The fasting is dependant on when and where you observe the Moon so this DOES vary and there should be two periods of fasting logically. But There is only ONE EVENT called the night of Measure because the Qur'an was revealed to a Man in the Northern Hemisphere. If this was not the case God would have said There are TWO or SEVERAL night of Measure's.
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Salaam soof
No You are in fact using solistic event for the moon. In other words chasing the sun god for fasting in different countries.Starting from summer hail and next country summer hail and next hail, first I beleive in the NORTHERN Hemisphere and finishing in the summer of the Southern Hemisphere hail
peace
Please stop referring to a Sun God. I already said what I use the Sun and Moon for. If you persist to say I worship idols when I am only using what God ALONE created as indicators for Man, I will cease to speak with you.
Peace
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Summer solstice refers to a period where the Earth is at an angle where one side gets signifcantly greater amount of sunlight. There is no Sun God involved. So when you wake up in the morning when the sun rises do you say you are chasing the Sun God starting from every dawn? foolishness..
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Understand this If you observe shahru ramadhan then you begin your fast. So anywhere on earth you observe it you fast. This differs from North to South obviously.
If you use the Quran as Guidence you will never get confused, but if you don't you will be lost and confused.
Shaher = Month according to Quran guidence
Rammadan= the name of the month that we should fast, according to quran guidence.The Qur'anic proof is
The month of Ramadhan therein was sent down the Qur'an is a guidance unto mankind, and with evidences one of the Books of guidance and the distinction. So whosoever of you witnesseth the month, he shall fast it, and whosoever sick or journeying, for him the like number of other days.
2185This is obviously a translation. What we differ about is whether it is Month or Full Moon.
Then if we differ, we should do what
Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah Such is Allah my Lord in Him I trust, and to Him I turn. (42-10)
Let us do that, please, so we can end this.
Regarding two Night of Measure's...because the Qur'an was revealed in the NORTHERN hemisphere, the Night of Measure (an event which has come and gone and does not reoccur - revealing of the Qur'an) occured only once in the respective summer solstice of the Northern Hemisphere. The fasting is dependant on when and where you observe the Moon so this DOES vary and there should be two periods of fasting logically. But There is only ONE EVENT called the night of Measure because the Qur'an was revealed to a Man in the Northern Hemisphere. If this was not the case God would have said There are TWO or SEVERAL night of Measure's.
confused confused confused
Please stick to Quran so you do not get lost and look like you are
Fasting FOR THE SUN