Why The Month Of Rammadan Does Not Mean The Moon Of Rammadn
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Salaam belal
The day is the unit for a year. Since no day can be measured by a lunar cycle, then a year cannot be lunar. The verse can be interpreted either way. Just because the (number of years and the count) follows the word "moon", this does not mean they do not concern the sun mentioned before the word "moon".
The pregnancy is related to an event, the menustration, which happens roughly every 28 days. Is this a lunar month, a month or just an event? The average pregnancy is 36 weeks, i.e equal to 9 events of menustration = otherwise called 9 months. Do you see how shahr is not necessarily a month? .
I think this verse speaks about limits, since there are variations regarding pregnancy and weaning. I also think that it's merely for legal purposes, as you correctly guessed minmum viable pregnancy is 26 weeks (for legal fatherhood), maximum breast feeding (since it is a paid job) is 24 months beyond which no payment will be made.
Peace;
I wish I have all the time to discuss, but I will do my best.As far as the day, the Quran says sun cycle.
As far as the month, God did not, again, God did not mention fixed number as we have in Solar Celander (31 or 30). Thus, you or me or Ayman cann't say that God forgot to say nor He need us to talk for him. The Month is calculated by the Moon Cycle, as he stated in Quran. And why is that? only Him knows. If He wanted us to calculate fixed numbers, He would have said it.Here is a link shows that Lunar Celander was used by Jews, and the recent Calendar (Solar) was invented in year 1700 (400 years ago);' which means that it has no religous base, during Mohamed nor Jesus nor Moses
http//www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0002061.html
http//www.infoplease.com/spot/gregorian1.htmlBy the way, today at 8pm I witnessed a Red Waxing Crescent from the USA. Does that mean any thing?
Now, Samia, your turn to answer my Question.
Peace -
Peace Nun,
I'm not for any abortion except perhaps the first week in cases of rape, health of mother, etc.
Unlike the Christian extremists would let the mother choose before 3 months.
I do not hold the view that life (i.e. spirit) starts with cells at conception nor that a heart pumping connected to a machine is a living soul.But that is the whole point. We can't say anything about the spirit (1785), including when life starts.
Same questions above apply -- does Quran contradict; does 24 = 21?
The great reading doesn't contradict but our understanding does. Can't we see in reality that many babies are born early less than 9 months and late more than 9 months? In fact some babies are born significantly prior to 9 months. Moreover, women normally do not wean their babies at exactly two years. Most of the time it is less and it depends on the baby and the mother and how rapidly and well the baby adjusts to solid food. From the passages that mention weaning, it is clear that 2 years is the maximum period for weaning while no minimum is given. As I can remember, one passage talks about the time being within 2 years and the other talks about 2 years for those who want (i.e. optional) to complete (i.e. maximize) the breastfeeding. So when the great reading mentions 30 full moons for both pregnancy and weaning, those are not exact timeframes but is a general guideline with inherent variability in both sides of the equation (the pregnancy and the breastfeeding). If the baby is born a little early then they would probably need to be weaned later compared to a baby who was born late or at full term who may not need more than 21 full-moons for weaning. It doesn't mean that breastfeeding is always 24 full moons (or months) and that a baby who is born after 9 full-moons (or months) has his spirit in month 3 while a baby born after 7 full-moons (or months) had his spirit in month 1. I hope that you can see the issues created by your rigid interpretation.
Peace,
Ayman
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If you are confused, you're not alone. While some people talk about pregnancy being 9 months long (divided into three trimesters), most health care providers refer to pregnancy as being 40 weeks long, starting with your last known menstrual period (LMP). Weeks - Months - Calculator - Convertor
A normal pregnancy lasts 280 days from your LMP which is about 266 days from conception to birth. The first two weeks of your pregnancy includes the time of your period, ovulation and fertilization. Conception occurs approximately 14 - 16 days after the first day of your period.
The date of conception is not always known and can vary between women. The date of LMP is known by most women so doctors use this date as a starting point for pregnancy. From your LMP they will add 280 days and this will give your Estimated Due Date or EDD. In general, all doctors agree that pregnancies, when using the LMP dating technique, average approximately 280 days or 40 weeks
http//baby2see.com/pregnancylength.htmlSalaam Farida
Whether the pregnancy is 36 or 40 weeks (usually calculated for 9 solar months minus a week), the point is that it's neither 9 solar nor lunar months, and is calculated based on menustration an event in a woman's life. Other calculations concerning women/mothers are also based on this event.
My question (not necessarily to you) is what is the event that a crescent mark so that we count a month based on it (other than the disputed time of ramadaan)?
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Peace Ayman,
But that is the whole point. We can't say anything about the spirit (1785), including when life starts.
And they ask/question you about the Soul/Spirit, say "The Soul/Spirit (is) from my Lord's matter/affair, and you were not given from the knowledge except little.?
Agreed, and although it was informative did not want to turn the topic into abortion only to bring the correlation of months to years.
You stated
?...30 full moons...?
?...24 full-moons (or months)...?
"...9 full-moons (or months)..."936... the number of months with Allah is twelve months
By your definition, are not 12 full-moons (or months) lunar each = 29.5306 days?
By your definition, are not 12 full-moons (or months) = 12 x 29.5306 days = 1 year?
In addition, it takes 2 full-moons to equal 1 month; 25 full-moons to equal 24 months.
Therefore, shahr cannot mean full-moons in above cases.
What about Shahr (1 full-moon or 1 month) Ramadan?
Peace
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Are you saying Quran contradicts?
12 months = 1 year; 24 months = 2 years
30 months ? 9 pregnancy = 21 months = 2 yearsIt?s not total pregnancy, its 6 months ?with him?; the math is straightforward only need to substitute...
Nowhere in al-Qur'an does it say that total pregnancy lasts for 6 or 9 months. The determination of this is completely based on your view of the "month"... Scientists say that pregnancy lasts "40 weeks", but how long is a "week"?
The principles in al-Qur'an are UNIVERSAL, not cultural. That means The God wouldn't base His periods for us on arbitrary timetables - they are based on something universal. The moon is definately a universal item of calculation, as is the sun - the concept of a "month" or a "week" are not universal...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Nowhere in al-Qur'an does it say that total pregnancy lasts for 6 or 9 months. The determination of this is completely based on your view of the "month"... Scientists say that pregnancy lasts "40 weeks", but how long is a "week"?
This was already answered; read Ayman's post as to speculation about the spirit/life and my reply...
But that is the whole point. We can't say anything about the spirit (1785), including when life starts.
Peace Ayman,
And they ask/question you about the Soul/Spirit, say "The Soul/Spirit (is) from my Lord's matter/affair, and you were not given from the knowledge except little.?
Agreed, and although it was informative did not want to turn the topic into abortion only to bring the correlation of months to years.
The key question is the meaning of shahr in above verses which cannot mean full-moons only months.
Then we can decide the types of months; when they start/end how many days, etc.
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Peace Nun,
And they ask/question you about the Soul/Spirit, say "The Soul/Spirit (is) from my Lord's matter/affair, and you were not given from the knowledge except little.?
Agreed, and although it was informative did not want to turn the topic into abortion only to bring the correlation of months to years.Great. Now we can move on to the timing.
You stated
?...30 full moons...?
?...24 full-moons (or months)...?
"...9 full-moons (or months)..."
936... the number of months with Allah is twelve monthsThis translation of 936 is not accurate. The word "3idat" doesn't have the same exact meaning as the word "3adad"/number. The word "3idat" means "count" so it should be
936... the count of full-moons with the god is twelve full-moons...
By your definition, are not 12 full-moons (or months) lunar each = 29.5306 days?
By your definition, are not 12 full-moons (or months) = 12 x 29.5306 days = 1 year?
In addition, it takes 2 full-moons to equal 1 month; 25 full-moons to equal 24 months.
Therefore, shahr cannot mean full-moons in above cases.
What about Shahr (1 full-moon or 1 month) Ramadan?Please see the answers to your questions here
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Peace,
Ayman
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Great. Now we can move on to the timing.
This translation of 936 is not accurate. The word "3idat" doesn't have the same exact meaning as the word "3adad"/number. The word "3idat" means "count" so it should be
936... the count of full-moons with the god is twelve full-moons...
Please see the answers to your questions here
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman,
Yes I read your article before.
Let?s look at the full moon dates for next few years and go over cases...
Farmers Almanac...
http//www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/full/index.phpToday on September 7, 2008 a man dies; his widow must wait 4 ?full moons? and 10 days (2234).
Full Moon Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.
December 12 1038 A.M.Add 10 days ? December 22, 2008 is her term date.
Likewise it is Dec 22 even if the man died after August 17 ? a difference of 3 weeks!
What if he dies at 5 am September 15 during the full moon ? how long does she wait?
If we read verse 2234 to mean wait 4 ?months? and 10 days there is no difference.
Peace
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Peace Nun,
Yes I read your article before.
Let?s look at the full moon dates for next few years and go over cases...
Farmers Almanac...
http//www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/full/index.php
Today on September 7, 2008 a man dies; his widow must wait 4 ?full moons? and 10 days (2234).
Full Moon Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.
December 12 1038 A.M.
Add 10 days ? December 22, 2008 is her term date.
Likewise it is Dec 22 even if the man died after August 17 ? a difference of 3 weeks!
What if he dies at 5 am September 15 during the full moon ? how long does she wait?
If we read verse 2234 to mean wait 4 ?months? and 10 days there is no difference.Exactly there is no difference in the same way that in 2228 there would be no difference for the divorced women who are counting their menstruations. Just replace "full moon dates" with "menstruation dates" in your example
Menstruation Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.Today on September 7, 2008 a man divorces his wive; she must wait 3 menstruations (222.
November 13, 2008 is when she is free.
Likewise it is Nov 13 even if the man divorces her after August 17 ? a difference of 3 weeks!It is not surprising that the god uses the same exact terms for counting menstruations and counting full-moons. In fact in 654, counting THREE full moons is given as an alternative for counting THREE menstruations for those women who don't get a period. So they are counted the same way.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ayman,
Exactly there is no difference in the same way that in 2228 there would be no difference for the divorced women who are counting their menstruations. Just replace "full moon dates" with "menstruation dates" in your example
Menstruation Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.Today on September 7, 2008 a man divorces his wive; she must wait 3 menstruations (222.
November 13, 2008 is when she is free.
Likewise it is Nov 13 even if the man divorces her after August 17 ? a difference of 3 weeks!It is not surprising that the god uses the same exact terms for counting menstruations and counting full-moons. In fact in 654, counting THREE full moons is given as an alternative for counting THREE menstruations for those women who don't get a period. So they are counted the same way.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
Let?s make sure?
Mr. A divorces his wife after the full moon on August 17;
Mr. B divorces his wife before the full moon on September 14;
2228 And the divorced (F) wait with themselves (F) three menstrual cyclesFull Moon/Menstruation Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.Mr. A?s ex waits three menstrual cycles
From and including Sunday, August 17, 2008
To and including Thursday, November 13, 2008
It is 89 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedMr. B?s ex waits three menstrual cycles
From and including Sunday, September 14, 2008
To and including Thursday, November 13, 2008
It is 61 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedA difference of 28 days
Mr. A dies after the full moon on August 17;
Mr. B dies before the full moon on September 14;
Their widows must wait 4 ?full moons? and 10 days (2234).Full Moon/Menstruation Dates 2008
August 16 418 P.M.
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.
December 12 1038 A.M.Add 10 days ? December 22, 2008 is the term date for both widows.
Calculate duration between two dates
http//www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.htmlMr. A?s widow waits
From and including Sunday, August 17, 2008
To and including Monday, December 22, 2008
It is 128 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedMr. B?s widow waits
From and including Sunday, September 14, 2008
To and including Monday, December 22, 2008
It is 100 days from the start date to the end date, end date includedA difference of 28 days; definitely based on menstrual cycle 3 in case of divorce and 4 in case of widows with extra 10 days to ensure they are clean.
Therefore, shahr can mean full-moon/menstrual cycle.
Good job!
I?ll look into the rest since shahr can be a lunar month as well.
Peace
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Peace all --
I was looking into resolving this issue which is more complex than the inheritance verses.
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children two years
3114...and his weaning/separation in two years
4615...and his wearing/separation thirty months
30 months = 2 years?
Peace Nun de plume,
2233 And the mothers breast feed their children TWO COMPLETE HAWL
3114...and his weaning/separation in two 3AM
4615...and his wearing/separation thirty FULL MOONS (months)
(ل means the period in which certain plants attain their complete strength.
It means the time required from planting a vegetable as a seed until it produces fruits.When it is related to the sun Hawl means a year in consideration of its changing, and of the revolution of the sun in its places of rising and setting.
Concerning a human (ل HAWL is the period of pregnancy, which is 40 weeks, 280 days, 10 lunar months, or 10 full moons starting with the last known menstrual period (LMP).
Therefore, ?two complete Hawl? is 20 lunar months or (20-21) full moons.
The carrying and his weaning is thirty Shahr...46-15
Carrying in Womb + Breastfeeding=30 lunar months or (30-31) full moons or three HAWL
Carrying in Womb = 10 lunar months or (10-11) full moons or one Hawl concerning human beings.
Breastfeeding = 20 lunar months or (20-21) full moons or two Hawl?s concerning human beings.
In 31.14 it says ending of breastfeeding is (within two ?am?) It does not say two complete years (am) as is said in 46.15 two complete hawl.
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Peace,
Just wanted to say
Nahaar daylight/day, from sunrise to sunset
yawm period of time, Jewish/Islamic day (sunset to sunset), Quranic(also ancient egytpian day) is sunrsie to sunrise (the Quran says that the night is not to come before the daylight)
qar' (pl. quroo' menstrual cycle (not shahr).Godbless,
Anwar