salat timing
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hail hail hail hail pr
1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled. jedihail hail hail hail pr
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Why do I keep seeing this word "compulsory?" Doesn't Qu'ran explicitly state that there is no compulsion in religion ... ?
Let's look at this "say" in it's CONTEXT
17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
17108 And they say ?Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled.?
17109 And they fall upon their chins crying, and it increases them in humility.
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.Verses 107-109 are describing "those who have been given the knowledge before it," that is, people who have already believed in God who are being exposed to the Qu'ran for the first time. "Say" is a command for us, the reader, what we should say to them. We should tell them to call on God by whatever name you called Him already, and to praise Him who hasn't taken a son, has no partner or ally.
Why do you think we are being told to say these verses before a prayer? Just because it says "and glorify Him" after you say those things does not mean that you have to say them EVERY TIME before you glorify Him, it only means you should glorify Him EVERY TIME after telling this to a believer who has been exposed to the Qu'ran for the first time, who falls on their chins crying.
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Why do I keep seeing this word "compulsory?" Doesn't Qu'ran explicitly state that there is no compulsion in religion ... ?
Let's look at this "say" in it's CONTEXT
Verses 107-109 are describing "those who have been given the knowledge before it," that is, people who have already believed in God who are being exposed to the Qu'ran for the first time. "Say" is a command for us, the reader, what we should say to them. We should tell them to call on God by whatever name you called Him already, and to praise Him who hasn't taken a son, has no partner or ally.Why do you think we are being told to say these verses before a prayer? Just because it says "and glorify Him" after you say those things does not mean that you have to say them EVERY TIME before you glorify Him, it only means you should glorify Him EVERY TIME after telling this to a believer who has been exposed to the Qu'ran for the first time, who falls on their chins crying.
I never said it was compulsory to say it ( this verse particalaly at beginning of prayer), but I did say that it was proof to say it...at the beging after forming intention or in displaying it or somtime inbetween ect...Just like the posture of protration is proof, and other factors of the prayer that are confirmed by Quran...
You find your own method of prayer, all factors of prayer besides Absolute proof parts and proofs are factor practiced by the messenger or leader...And these should not be omitted without valid reson...
You praise Him the way He teaches u ( 17111), But He does command you to praise Him dawn and evening, in the time of prayer...u can say what you want to say, just give all praises to Him...
This is my way, I invite to God in full disclosure, myself and whoever follows me. And glory be to God. And I am not of those who set up partners.
Look at surah 1, it begins with praises to God, and then prayer...for example.
1.In the name of God,
the Merciful, the Most Merciful.
2. All praises to God,
the worlds Lord.
3. The Merciful,
the Most Merciful.
4. The Master
of Judgment Day.
5. We worship You only,
and we seek help from You only.
6. Guide us to the path,
that is straight.
7. Those You blessed on them's path,
and not those with the wrath on them,
nor the misled.Surah 2238 commands you to ritualize your prayer...or restrict it, guard it,dedicate it, ect...
And to "keep" it....And dont loose it like geanerations that came and followed the desires....and lost it...
Do you not agree that after seeking your path for salat ( 17110 ), to say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? ( 17111 ) ??
And do you think that I would be wrong for doings so and advising the people to do the same thing? Am I missing something??
peace
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I don't think you are wrong for saying what you do and advising other people to do so; I think you are wrong in your interpretation of those verses. There is no "proof" that they are to be said at the beginning of our salat, actually the context clearly suggests otherwise. If you like saying them and you encourage others to say them there is nothing wrong with that, but we have to be very careful in our claims about what the scripture says.
The reasoning for this is two-fold God knows best, not us; and every person needs the freedom to read the verses according to their understanding. When you begin to interpret verses without clear proofs for your meanings you begin to take away from other's ability to read the Scripture and formulate their own beliefs; look at what happened with Rashad Khalifa.
For example, when I read 2238 and 2239 I do not read it as being about prayer at all; it is about marriage to me. The verses before it and after elegantly fit into this meaning and create a continuity in the Scripture that I believe was intended. I used to accept that it was about prayer, but after reviewing 1. the context 2. the arabic 3. the most appropriate interpretation considering those two things, I have come to a different conclusion. So when you tell me that 2238 means "to ritualize prayer" I automatically disagree with you, and unless you can provide better proof than what I have used to come to my conclusion I will not be able to believe you.
You do not know what other people's beliefs are about the verses you are interpreting, and you are not providing convincing evidence for your interpretation. This is bound to cause people to disagree with you. I don't think you're wrong for what you are doing (in your ritual) -- I think you are wrong for your justification of them. If they seem right to you just do them and if you want to share your methods with others do so; but unless you have clear proof (involving context, arabic, etc) you should not try to say "the scripture says to do it this way!"
The Qu'ran, interpretation, logic, etc. are kind of hallowed ground to some of us.
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Salaaman rsw,
Why do I keep seeing this word "compulsory?" Doesn't Qu'ran explicitly state that there is no compulsion in religion ... ?
Yes! still I say it is compulsory brother.. Because Allah said
17110 Say "Invoke God, or invoke the Most Gracious by whichever name you invoke Him, His are all the attributes of perfection. And do not display your Salaat nor hide it completely, but follow a way in-between;
Quli odAAoo Allaha awi odAAoo alrrahmana ayyan ma tadAAoo falahu alasmao alhusna wala tajhar bisalatika wala tukhafit biha waibtaghi bayna thalika sabeelan
(17110)
17111 and say "All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid" -and extol His limitless greatness.
Waquli alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran
(17111)
When Allah asked us to SAY it means we have to say. So, compulsory.
And you said, "there is no compulsion in religion ... ?". You cannot bring any verse regarding this brother.
Rather than compulsion it says "Laa ikraha fid deen". Ikraha does not compulsion but it means something that you don't like.
Regards,
mmKhan -
So you are correct about ikraha. I have been under a false belief because I believed what someone told me about a verse rather than actually interpreting it for myself. Thanks for correcting me on this & increasing my knowledge.
However, just because the Qu'ran says "SAY" doesn't mean we should decide for ourselves that such a thing is to be said at such-and-such a time. Do you agree that we must look at the context of the command "SAY" in order to know WHO and WHEN to comply with that command? I'm not saying that using it as an affirmation for salat is wrong; I'm saying telling other people that the Qu'ran designates it as an affirmation for salat is wrong. If you agree that context is important then we must read the preceeding verses. Do you agree?
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I think you are wrong in your interpretation of those verses. There is no "proof" that they are to be said at the beginning of our salat, actually the context clearly suggests otherwise.
When you begin to interpret verses without clear proofs for your meanings you begin to take away from other's ability to read the Scripture and formulate their own beliefs; look at what happened with Rashad Khalifa.
For example, when I read 2238 and 2239 I do not read it as being about prayer at all; it is about marriage to me. The verses before it and after elegantly fit into this meaning and create a continuity in the Scripture that I believe was intended. I used to accept that it was about prayer, but after reviewing 1. the context 2. the arabic 3. the most appropriate interpretation considering those two things, I have come to a different conclusion. So when you tell me that 2238 means "to ritualize prayer" I automatically disagree with you, and unless you can provide better proof than what I have used to come to my conclusion I will not be able to believe you.
You do not know what other people's beliefs are about the verses you are interpreting, and you are not providing convincing evidence for your interpretation. This is bound to cause people to disagree with you. I don't think you're wrong for what you are doing (in your ritual) -- I think you are wrong for your justification of them.
but unless you have clear proof (involving context, arabic, etc) you should not try to say "the scripture says to do it this way!"
The Qu'ran, interpretation, logic, etc. are kind of hallowed ground to some of us.
What part of this dont you understand, bra...
- Proof
17110 ......And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.- Proofs
2238 And dedicate the prayers;whithout once missing. And kneel and pray apologetically to God Almighty.
But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
Literal 2238
Observe/guard on the prayers, and the prayers the middle, and stand/call to God obeying/worshipping humbly .
So if you feared, so walking or riding , so if you became safe/secure , so mention/remember God, as He taught you what you were not knowing.
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The truth has come from your Lord...Bring forth a Scripture from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it , if u truthful...
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Say " All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness." And glorify Him greatly...
Dawn and dusk
- And it will be said " All praises to God, Lord of the worlds."
And I take back, it is compulsory to say this and the prayer...And are those who know the interpretation equal to those who dont know?
"Obey God and obey the messenger."
Every word I used in my translation is justifyable... And is it clear or not?
And this is my way. I invite to God in full disclosure...
And if you love God then follow me so God will love you and forgive your sins. And God is Forgiving, the merciful.
I preach to you one thing. that you stand to God my way or your own uncommon way, and then reflect. There is no madness in your friend he is only a warner to u in the face of a sever retribution.
Shout praises to the Lord. The One who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor ally out of weakness.
Praise Him dawn and evening, and pray dawn and evening, and read dawn and at night.
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Would you like me to give you an example of what you are doing? The following is for illustrative purposes only
Qu'ran says to kill people who do not want to be under Muslim authority what part of this do you not understand
4091 You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you ... seize them and kill them wherever you find them.
They are to go to Hell and we are to put them there
7215 ?The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.?
489 ?seize them and slay them wherever you find them and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.?Even if they are our neighbors, coworkers, relatives
9.123 ?O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you?Do you see what you are doing, anthony? You're taking verses out of context (17110-111) and distorting their meanings (223. What part of THIS do YOU not understand? God-willing this is my last post on this topic, if you don't get it I really do give up.
no hard feelings. peace.
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Would you like me to give you an example of what you are doing? The following is for illustrative purposes only
Qu'ran says to kill people who do not want to be under Muslim authority what part of this do you not understand
4091 You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you ... seize them and kill them wherever you find them.
They are to go to Hell and we are to put them there
7215 ?The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.?
489 ?seize them and slay them wherever you find them and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.?Even if they are our neighbors, coworkers, relatives
9.123 ?O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you?Do you see what you are doing, anthony? You're taking verses out of context (17110-111) and distorting their meanings (223. What part of THIS do YOU not understand? God-willing this is my last post on this topic, if you don't get it I really do give up.
no hard feelings. peace.
Let each work according to his own
And if this is a fabricated lie, then I am respionsible for my crime
2238 And dedicate the prayers;whithout once missing. And kneel and pray apologetically to God Almighty.
And if this is a " distortion" then the translations u quoten from and all others is too... And God knows what we do.
O.k. so you saying that my interpretation isnt the correct meaning? Then what is the correct meaning, bring it forth.
Im only a advisor, i advice you to praise God dawn and eveing and to say " praise be to God......ect...17111 ( confirms that it is o.k. to say this)
And I advise you to dedicate the prayers; without once missing. And to kneel down and pray apologetically to God Almighty...2238
And also I have to study further into 17110-111,
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peace
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My reasoning for not taking "salawati" in 2238-239 as "prayers" comes from the context if you look at the verses preceeding it and the verses after it they are about marriage. The word "salawat" can mean many things other than just prayer, according to the rootlist
Sad-Lam-Waw prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached. In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached). Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.
It would make sense, in the context, that "salawat" and "salat" would not be referring to "prayers" and "prayer" but rather, to "remain attached." From the same lexicon, "wusta"
Waw-Siin-Tay = middle, midst, among, best, best part of a thing, mediate/intercede between, most remote from the extremes, equidistant, intermediate, most conforming/equitable/just/balanced, most excellent of them in particular.
When we consider the verse in context, that it must be about marriage; 2238 would be most appropriately interpreted as "Preserve the connections (between you and your wives), and the best/central connection (between you and God), and stand before God obeying humbly." We should STAY MARRIED AND OBEDIENT TO GOD, being disobedient to GOD will cause stress in our relationship possibly causing divorce; or divorce is disobedient to GOD.
239 now makes sense in this context, as maintaining the marriage while in fear (of an enemy or disaster). It ties elegantly into 240 being about leaving a widow (in case you did maintain the connection while fleeing but were killed while away). This is how literature works; one verse leads into the next, they make sense in an orderly fashion and work together with one another. Your interpretation assumes that the only meaning of the root Sad-Lam-Waw is prayer. If you consider that it can have multiple meanings this verse gains a beautiful connection with it's context.
So now that I have explained my reasoning, I will reiterate my original statement To say that 2239-239 is about prayer breaks up the flow of the chapter and the beauty of the literature; but to say that those verses are about marriage reestablishes the logical order and consistent meaning of the verses preceeding and succeeding them.
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My reasoning for not taking "salawati" in 2238-239 as "prayers" comes from the context if you look at the verses preceeding it and the verses after it they are about marriage. The word "salawat" can mean many things other than just prayer, according to the rootlist
Sad-Lam-Waw prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached. In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached). Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.
It would make sense, in the context, that "salawat" and "salat" would not be referring to "prayers" and "prayer" but rather, to "remain attached." From the same lexicon, "wusta"
Waw-Siin-Tay = middle, midst, among, best, best part of a thing, mediate/intercede between, most remote from the extremes, equidistant, intermediate, most conforming/equitable/just/balanced, most excellent of them in particular.
When we consider the verse in context, that it must be about marriage; 2238 would be most appropriately interpreted as "Preserve the connections (between you and your wives), and the best/central connection (between you and God), and stand before God obeying humbly." We should STAY MARRIED AND OBEDIENT TO GOD, being disobedient to GOD will cause stress in our relationship possibly causing divorce; or divorce is disobedient to GOD.
239 now makes sense in this context, as maintaining the marriage while in fear (of an enemy or disaster). It ties elegantly into 240 being about leaving a widow (in case you did maintain the connection while fleeing but were killed while away). This is how literature works; one verse leads into the next, they make sense in an orderly fashion and work together with one another. Your interpretation assumes that the only meaning of the root Sad-Lam-Waw is prayer. If you consider that it can have multiple meanings this verse gains a beautiful connection with it's context.
So now that I have explained my reasoning, I will reiterate my original statement To say that 2239-239 is about prayer breaks up the flow of the chapter and the beauty of the literature; but to say that those verses are about marriage reestablishes the logical order and consistent meaning of the verses preceeding and succeeding them.
good points, and i will have to continue my study...
However, 2238 -2239 can also be about the importance of observing the prayers too, for both the male and female ...Thus if this verse is about prayer, then everthing stands...untill further notice...
peace
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May I help direct you in your study? Here is the section of the Qu'ran which we are discussing
2221 And do not marry the females who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if she attracts you. And do not marry the males who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while God is inviting to Paradise and forgiveness by His leave. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.
clearly about marriage2222 And they ask you about menstruation? Say ?It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you.? God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.
clearly about intercourse with our wives2223 Your women are a cultivation for you. So approach your cultivation as you wish towards goodness. And be aware of God and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.
clearly about the awareness of God in our relationship with our wives2224 And do not make God the subject of your casual oaths. Be pious and righteous and reconcile among the people; and God is Listener, Knower.
We will not be held accountable for our insincere oaths (spoken rhetorically or without intention to perform, etc)... not explicitly about marriage, but the next verses tie it into the main idea2225 God will not call you to account for your casual oaths, but He will call you to account for what has entered your hearts. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
again, not about marriage, but oaths. about how we will be called into account for a certain type of oath.2226 For those who abstain from their wives, they shall be givin four months. If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
reveals what type of oath we will be accounted for. this verse is clearly leading into divorce. divorce is a breaking of an oath with God, bringing the previous verses well into the topic.2227 And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
if you're not breaking your oath by your will God will know.2228 And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfill their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.
more details about divorce.2229 The divorce is allowed twice. So, either they remain together equitably, or they part ways with kindness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given the women unless you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits. So if you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are God?s limits so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress God?s limits, then these are the wicked.
more about divorce2230 So if he divorces her again, then she will not be lawful for him until she has married another husband. If the other husband divorces her, then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold God?s limits. These are God?s limits, He clarifies them for a people that know.
more on divorce2231 And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably. And do not reconcile with them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wickedness to his soul; and do not take God?s revelations lightly. And remember God?s blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of the Scripture and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.
DIVORCE.2232 And if you divorce the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands if they amicably agree amongst themselves out of what is best. This is to remind any of you who believe in God and the Last Day, this is better for you and purer; and God knows while you do not know.
....DIVORCE. see a pattern here?2233 And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling. And the man for whom the child is born is responsible for both their provisions and clothing equitably. We do not burden a soul beyond its means. No mother shall be harmed because of her child, nor shall a father be harmed because of his child. And for the guardian is the same requirement. So if they wish to separate out of mutual agreement and counsel, then there is no sin upon them. And if you want to hire nursing mothers, then there is no sin upon you if you return what you have been given equitably. And be aware of God, and know that God is watching over what you do.
still about divorce.2234 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind, then their widows will have a required interim period of four months and ten days. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do to themselves equitably. And God is Expert to what you do.
about leaving a widow. still related to marriage.2235 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say. And do not consummate the marriage until the required interim is reached in the Scripture. And know that God knows what is in your souls, so be aware of Him, and know that God is Forgiving, Compassionate
. more on marriage and widows.2236 There is no sin upon you if you divorce the women before having sexual intercourse with them, or before setting the dowry for them. Let them have recompense, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means. Recompense which is in goodness, a responsibility for those in kindness.
about divorce2237 And if you divorce them before having sexual intercourse with them, but you have already set the dowry for them; then you must give half of what you have agreed, unless they forgive or the guardian over the marriage contract forgives. And if you forgive, it is closer to righteousness. And do not forget the favor between you; God is Seer over what you do.
yet more on divorce.2238 Maintain the communions; and a balanced communion; and stand dutiful for God.
Maybe you believe so. I believe it is about staying in relationship with those you swore you would, as it is your duty to God to do so since you swore to God you would at your marriage. Or maybe the subject suddenly changed to "HOW TO PRAY". God knows best.2239 But if you are in a state of fear, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
About maintaining marriage even while fleeing for fear. but what do I know; maybe it's about shortening the "middle" prayer, whatever that is.2240 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind; a testimony to them that they may enjoy for one year without being made to vacate. If they leave then there is no sin upon you for what they do to themselves in goodness; and God is Noble, Wise.
About the widows you may leave behind if what you feared overtakes you.
2241 And for the divorced women to have recompense is an obligation upon the righteous.
still about widows, divorcees, marriage, wives, ETC. If the previous two verses were about prayer then God must have a good reason for putting them between these verses about divorce, right?2242 It is such that God clarifies to you His revelations that you may comprehend.
Does "GOD clarifies" mean "changes topic mid-discussion" or "is logical and cohesive"? -
I see were you comin from...
also, threwout the Quran verses come out of nowere, like even that whole chapter is not about divorce only ect...
Thats just like chapter 9, on how they think the last two verses should be removed cause of code 19...Im still studyin it so havent reach any conclutions, but reagading chap 9...the theme or " flow" of it is about war, killing, and attacking...while the last 2 verses sugest turnin away from them witha saying...but on the contray the rest of the chapt is about killin and fighten them if they turn away, Not turnin away with a saying....ect...
But I see were u comin from thoe...
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Here is the Literal translation
Transliteration Quli odAAoo Allaha awi odAAoo alrrahmana ayyan ma tadAAoo falahu al-asmao alhusna wala tajhar bisalatika wala tukhafit biha waibtaghi bayna thalika sabeelan
Waquli alhamdu lillahi allathee lam yattakhith waladan walam yakun lahu shareekun fee almulki walam yakun lahu waliyyun mina alththulli wakabbirhu takbeeran
Literal Say "Call God, or call the merciful, whichever you call, so for Him (are) the names the best/most beautiful (the good names), and do not publicize/declare/raise (voice) with your prayers, and do not silence/lower and hide with it, and wish/desire between that a way/method."
And say "The praise/gratitude (is) to God who did not take (a) child (son), and (there) had not been/is not a partner for Him in the ownership/kingdom , and (there) had not been/is not for Him (a) guardian/protector from the humbleness/weakness , and greaten/magnify Him , greatness/enlargement ."
It is absoulute proof to say this after making intention for your prayer
11110 Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
11111 And say " All praise to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
Do you see it? Here is an alternative view
11110 Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not show-off with your prayers, and do not overawe and hide with it, and seek a way between that."
11111 And say " All praise to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
peace
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17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
We are being told to tell people to exercise their free will, and advising them that people of other religions who have recieved the same guidance recognise it.17108 And they say ?Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled.?
We are told that this is what those people of other religions say.17109 And they fall upon their chins crying, and it increases them in humility.
and we are told this is what those people of other religions do.17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
we are being told to tell the people of other religions to call God by the name they do in their own religion, that it is all the same to God; and also we are not to be too obvious about our relationships with these people of other religions, nor too secretive. OR IS IT INSTRUCTIONS FOR BEFORE PRAYER? ONLY GOD KNOWS17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
This seems like the perfect thing to say to a member of a previous religion who may have been influenced by their religion to set up partners. BUT GOD KNOWS BEST, maybe it is supposed to be recited before each prayer!So in conclusion,
17107 -- ABOUT PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS
17108 -- ABOUT PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS
17109 -- ABOUT PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS
17110 -- I believe ABOUT PEOPLE OF OTHER RELIGIONS, you believe what you will.
17111 -- I believe the subject has still not changed; but you will believe what you will.The meaning of the literal translation is just like the meaning of the arabic -- It can only be interpreted as part of the context! This is very important to me; it may not be to you but I believe it is central to understanding any text (whether Qu'ran or cookbook or anything written or spoken at all; no statement can be understood as accurately outside of it's context as it can be understood within its context).
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?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
" All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
I think u may be right, looking at it from this way...It depends now with me on weather the " is suppose to be at the end of 17110 or at the end of " Him" in the first sentance...Example
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him."
And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that.
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
It does not have to be recited before each prayer... I never said that it has to be ( i dont think ), but I did say that it was proof to do so ( based on my previous inderstanding )...
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Yep, that's what I'm trying to illustrate to you Of course it's good recite whatever you feel inspired to from the Qu'ran at any time you feel like (in prayer or not), but to say a statement from the Qu'ran "PROVES" something is a bold statement and shouldn't be taken lightly. If there is even a smidgeon of doubt you can not say that it is "PROVEN," only that it is your belief, or theory, or understanding. Do you see?
As far as the position of the quotations go, I am not sure. Either way I would, God-willing, still tell that believer of the other religion the whole statement; better yet I would give them the Qu'ran to read for themselves. Where they fall does not change the general topic of that set of verses, but the study and interpretation of verses is best left to each individual; and shared as belief and theory, not as "Qu'ran proves this!" There are some things that we KNOW the Qu'ran says (feed the poor, don't eat pork, etc) but there are many verses that we can not yet say we know the meaning to. God-willing one day we will be able to say of each verse "this verse proves this" but until we have a better understanding of the Qu'ran (through study and comparison) we need to be careful about how we present our interpretations (as theory or as Truth from God, theory preferably).
But that's just my suggestion for you. take it or leave it.
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The position of the qoutations determines if my " therory" is correct...
And also what the word " and " refers to at the beginning of 111 ( And say )....ect...
If we look at it this way
Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him."
And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that.
Then this would strenthen my " theroy"....
If we look at it this way
Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
then this would be instructions to them, and it would thus make sence that 111 is also instructions to them ( telling them that all praises to God who did not take a son....ect....and telling them to glorify Him greatly....
peace
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Salaam,
My understanding is that this affirmation should be said because the quran tells us to say it. If we go back to the previous verse ; 17110 we can see that these two verses go together. First it tells us what tone to use in Salat then it continues and tells ut what to say... it starts off with>>> AND SAY, the word AND implies that it is a continuation of the previous verse, and therefor should be proclaimed in the salat.
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
Salamun aleikom!