women's dress code question?
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salam.
allah is the knower.
??? sorry, my dullness doesnt allow me to understand arabic(i suppose that is what the language is called, i am very dumb)
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salam luthador. i respect the humble reply from samia and yourself. i am reproducing one of the standard translations here to save time.
7431 and we have set none but angels as guardians of the fire; and we have fixed their number only as a trial for unbelievers, in order that the people of the book may arrive at certainty, and the believers may increase in faith, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the book and the believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say, what symbol does allah intend by this, thus does allah leave to stray whom he pleases, and guide whom he pleases; and none can know the forces of your lord, except him, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
allah is the one who warns.
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salam luthador. i respect the humble reply from samia and yourself. i am reproducing one of the standard translations here to save time.
7431 and we have set none but angels as guardians of the fire; and we have fixed their number only as a trial for unbelievers, in order that the people of the book may arrive at certainty, and the believers may increase in faith, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the book and the believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say, what symbol does allah intend by this, thus does allah leave to stray whom he pleases, and guide whom he pleases; and none can know the forces of your lord, except him, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
allah is the one who warns.
okay,... so what you are saying is that I am a disbeliever? for one simple thing as hijab you think that? no problem i respect your opinion, but i am not. And i never said anything like what you highlighted, i am only having doubts because i do not understand properly as i am dull(i have said it several times). after seeing quran-islam.org and and this website about what it says about head scarf it is clear that it is not mandatory(by the way we are not using your translation, we are using dr.rashad khalifa's) now plz i wish not to debate you, but I am sticking to what it says in this website, because the translation used here is very authentic compared to any others. and clearly the word head is not even used and i compared that with a translation of quran in my language(bengali) and it matches. Allah's signs are quite clear. So now do not start critisizing me i beg u for ur pardon, but this is my point of view and you are not Allah. my point of view is different from that of conservatives like your self, sorry. And most people around here also seem to be agreeing that head covering is not mandatory. Thank you for sharing your point of view once agan. I really appreciate D
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okay,... so what you are saying is that I am a disbeliever?
Salaam luthor_sucks
Why do you think he means that? Remember he does not know Arabic, just like you, and maybe he does not exactly know what this verse says, because the word (symbol , ramz) does not exist in it. Moreover, the verse in question (2431)does not contain a parable ( mathal).
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Salaam luthor_sucks
Why do you think he means that? Remember he does not know Arabic, just like you, and maybe he does not exactly know what this verse says, because the word (symbol , ramz) does not exist in it. Moreover, the verse in question (2431)does not contain a parable ( mathal).
well he is acting as him he is an scholar who knows everything, and thank god/Allah i got a pm from dc2, he told me just how al-araf is, so arguing with him is really not worth my time. And Al-araf plz take no offense, forgive me but you are too intelligent for me so plz do not reply in my posts, sorry, i beg u for ur pardon, plz do not reply in my posts as you are too intelligent for spending your time and replying in my whinning which is very stupid. so i am putting you in my ignore list, and again al-araf i really appreciate how you tried to helped i really do, but you are a conservative, and i am liberal so sorry, u are also very smart compared to me so do not reply in my posts. now other people plz reply giving your point of views, only ur point of views and do not behave like hukm, acting as if u r allah.
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ls,
Let me explain it simply, the verse says "draw your khimaar over your chest". The word khimaar in Classical Arabic dictionaries can mean "headcover" as well as any "cover". So, it is possible to interpret it as "headcover" but that is not the only option.I recommend the search fucntion.
Peace
But in the Quran khimar and related words have no suggestion of 'head' but more of a cover. The proposed meaning of draw you headcovers over your bosoms makes no sense anyway (do the people who claim this claim that women can show their midrift?). The Sunni and Shia people then patronize God and then claim, out of their own prejudices, that God really meant to tell the women to cover practically everything to 'protect them' from being viewed upon as sexual objects (and it is in the countries where this code is in place where women are viewed most sexually).
This topic is, in my opinion, one that is spoken/written about too much and is in reality a classic exposition of such people's general ignorance and their opposition to the Quran.
Roshan
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i agree. also is the nature of a headscarf that it does have the ability to be drawn over one's bosoms? i have never had the opportunity to inspect one closely but it doesnt seem to be the case. a "cover" or shawl would make more sense. for me the head scarf issue is a symbol of everything that is wrong with traditionally interpreted islam. can't fathom that some women have actually committed suicide over not being allowed to wear them in certain places in turkey.
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i agree. also is the nature of a headscarf that it does have the ability to be drawn over one's bosoms? i have never had the opportunity to inspect one closely but it doesnt seem to be the case. a "cover" or shawl would make more sense. for me the head scarf issue is a symbol of everything that is wrong with traditionally interpreted islam. can't fathom that some women have actually committed suicide over not being allowed to wear them in certain places in turkey.
Cool, may peace be upon you, may Allah reward you better. Al-araf than you agaun but reply not, and take no offense I mentioned reason above.
You guys are good. -
Thank you, but actually for a stupid guy like me
well, that is why i go to different sites as you can see that i am blind lol
??? sorry, my dullness doesnt allow me to understand arabic(i suppose that is what the language is called, i am very dumb)
i am dull(i have said it several times
And Al-araf plz take no offense, forgive me but you are too intelligent for me so plz do not reply in my posts, sorry, i beg u for ur pardon, plz do not reply in my posts as you are too intelligent for spending your time and replying in my whinning which is very stupid. so i am putting you in my ignore list, and again al-araf i really appreciate how you tried to helped i really do, but you are a conservative, and i am liberal so sorry, u are also very smart compared to me so do not reply in my posts.
Salaam luthador,
The quotes above disturb me.
I do not know personal things about you, nor do I want to judge you... but please, I request you stop criticizing youself.
Being young does not make you any less human than the rest of us. You have displayed signs of intelligence.
Also... do not give so much credit to Al Araf.
Just because someone throws their "I'm so much better than you" attitude around this forum, DOES NOT make them better than you.
Peace
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Salaam luthador,
The quotes above disturb me.
I do not know personal things about you, nor do I want to judge you... but please, I request you stop criticizing youself.
Being young does not make you any less human than the rest of us. You have displayed signs of intelligence.
Also... do not give so much credit to Al Araf.
Just because someone throws their "I'm so much better than you" attitude around this forum, DOES NOT make them better than you.
Peace
Thanks but the reason I am giiving him(rest of conservatives and wana be radicals) is because there is no point of wasting time debating them. so peace.
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You are right about that. Anyway, please don't criticize yourself in the future. sun
Peace
K thanks I'll try that next time. but y r conservatives and wana be radicalsso aggressive?
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well in this website(free-mind.org)it is saying head scarf isnt mandatory. And in search function what should i type?
I assume you have used a search engine such as google or yahoo. If so, treat it like that. Some example words to type in "headcover", "khimaar".
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I assume you have used a search engine such as google or yahoo. If so, treat it like that. Some example words to type in "headcover", "khimaar".
Well I went to quran-islam.org, over there they show many translation errors and they use a really good translation of the quran. So what they say is quite reasonable
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Well I went to quran-islam.org, over there they show many translation errors and they use a really good translation of the quran. So what they say is quite reasonable
If that is the case, it seems you may have bigger problems than knowing how to use a search function can solve.
I can assure you from my own experience, the biggest stumbling block on the path to enlightenment is oneself.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Intelligent_Approach_to_Islam.htm
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If that is the case, it seems you may have bigger problems than knowing how to use a search function can solve.
I can assure you from my own experience, the biggest stumbling block on the path to enlightenment is oneself.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Intelligent_Approach_to_Islam.htm
And your point is??? I am very stupid and dumb? Well I've admitted that thousands of times plz see my introduction post giveup giveup I hail Allah only. Okay and in that link you gave me it says to read the quran as that is the only book of guidance, well in the quran And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.
You are very intelligent indeed much more than me but as much as my dull wit can understand I do not see head covering anywhere ??? confused confused There shall be no compulsion in religion...
So i am worshipping Allah alone, what else do you want from me? ANd remember you are not Allah so plz do not assert about my sins.
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
Well as much as my dull understandings can take me, I have not found head covering and the word khamir(or what ever its called) has many meanings but I do not understand arabic therefore I shall only stick to Dr.Rashad Khalifa's translation which I consider to be authentic.
O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.
so that is why I just want to be liberal and righteous and at the same time not extracavenge, now you are excatly like Al-araf, so again I appreciate your help thank you very much, but you two are both too intelligent for me, you two take things too far for me(for u it is good ;D but not for my dullness sorry) and so I do not wish to argue with you plz I beg you stop. giveup giveup giveup I am not worth debating trust meIf that is the case, it seems you may have bigger problems than knowing how to use a search function can solve.
What was the reason to insault like that? I am the way I am, it does not give you the rights to insault.
Okay you think I cannot use search function? http//quranicteachings.co.uk/khimar.htm well I found this from google search, well now do you still think i cannot use the search function? I really do not know why you started to make mockeries and insualts O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or make fun of your names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors. -
Is this a trusted site?
http//www.islamfortoday.com/syed01.htmThe Qur'an advises the wives of the Prophet (SAS) to go veiled (33 59).
In Surah 24 31(Ayah), the Qur'an advises women to cover their "adornments" from strangers outside the family. In the traditional and modern Arab societies women at home dress quite differently compared to what they wear in the streets. In this verse of the Qur'an, it refers to the institution of a new public modesty rather than veiling the face.
...When the pre-Islamic Arabs went to battle, Arab women seeing the men off to war would bare their breasts to encourage them to fight; or they would do so at the battle itself, as in the case of the Meccan women led by Hind at the Battle of Uhud. This changed with Islam, but the general use of the veil to cover the face did not appear until 'Abbasid times. Nor was it entirely unknown in Europe, for the veil permitted women the freedom of anonymity. None of the legal systems actually prescribe that women must wear a veil, although they do prescribe covering the body in public, up to the neck, the ankles, and below the elbow. In many Muslim societies, for example in traditional South East Asia, or in Bedouin lands a face veil for women is either rare or non-existent; paradoxically, modern fundamentalism is introducing it. In others, the veil may be used at one time and European dress another. While modesty is a religious prescription, the wearing of a veil is not a religious requirement of Islam, but a matter of cultural milieu.2
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salam pvb. the word "advises" is not present in the sure. to use the term advises is misleading.
the word used in the sura is fardana, mandatry, obligatory, from the root word fard.
you have posted a non quranic article, and in a gross violation of the quran, turned around and claimed this article is your authority, then mislead people with your innovation that this is a cultural device, when the quran explicitly says it is fard.
the conservative cautious conclusion is a women should cover completely, liberal minimum conclusion is that the head should be covered to the bosom. this is the range of acceptable conclusions.
maybe you dont understand that the reason for the observance is obedience to allah. calling this obedience to allah, cultural, and therefore not religious, and therefore irrelevant, is a truly sad path you have gone down.
allah is the lawgiver.
