What about all the bad things that happen?
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Peace all
Something which i thought about a while ago was this.
happiness and unhappiness are the important things here with respect to reward and punishment (i think)
I wondered what happens to the happines of those who are brought up in poverty and the following came to me.
When a poor person finds shelter or food, it can/maby be the equivalent of a person with normal wealth winning the lottery.
That level of happiness which the poor MAY experience, could be more frequent than that of a person with nomral wealth. However the normal wealth person probably does not experience as much unhappieness as the poor person.I wondered whether there is a balance somewhere with respect to the happiness and unhappiness of these individuals in different environments and circumstances.
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However the normal wealth person probably does not experience as much unhappieness as the poor person.
Salaam nimnimak,
In case of wealth this is probably true. Wealthy people can also be unhappy, which of course, has nothing to do with money.
Peace,
dotty -
Salam Dotty
Do you not think that poor people can be happy? I think they may adapt to their situation although if it's very very bad they probabely wouldn't.
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Absolutely nimnimak.
There is happiness/sadness in every walk of life. Did I give you the impression that poor people cannot be happy? I did not mean to.
I bet there are a lot of poor people that can explain their happiness..... and I'm sure they appreciate things much more that ones born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Unfortunately, many times poor people have to work so hard just to get the smallest necessities. We should always be mindful of that.
peace
dotty -
Absolutely nimnimak.
There is happiness/sadness in every walk of life. Did I give you the impression that poor people cannot be happy? I did not mean to.
I bet there are a lot of poor people that can explain their happiness..... and I'm sure they appreciate things much more that ones born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Unfortunately, many times poor people have to work so hard just to get the smallest necessities. We should always be mindful of that.
peace
dottyI agree bravo
peace -
So if people who commit crimes against humankind have free-choice, as you mentioned earlier, then what choices do the innocent have? Wouldn't they then be slaves with no choice?
just to get back to this quote - wouldnt the "choice" of the innocent be in how they choose to react/deal with their situation?
peace sister Elena,
if you were an observer watching me standing over two hungry children fighting over a piece of bread, and I stopped them and took the piece of bread from them and you paused the scene right there and began to draw conclusions on what happened and if it was fair or not, you might think I took the bread for myself (i.e. something unfair) or something else... however, if you unpaused it and let the story complete, you may see me break the bread into two equal portions and return it to the children, each with their own share.
Thus, if we go back to the original point, you are making your judgement on God as being unfair only halfway through the story. As I said before, if God exists, like your point of contention assumes, we should remember that this life is only part of the story, and there will be no injustice once the story is complete.I hope this was of help.
This is very optimistic bro...... nice simple analogy )
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just to get back to this quote - wouldnt the "choice" of the innocent be in how they choose to react/deal with their situation?
Yes and no.
A small child who is sexually abused, let's say, may not even know HOW to react/deal.
In fact, it's a pretty sure bet they don't.
Peace
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True - but then the choice is theirs when they grow up perhaps?
to be honest this plays alot on my mind - why does god allow it? Its like he created everything then took a step back to watch us self-destruct or something....
I remember asking somehting similar a while ago about these bad things -
God allows these to happen
and God knows that some people will commit these horrible crimes but he created them anyways - why?
and God knows he'll punish for these things - so why make those souls who are surely going to be going to "hell" in the first place? (does that make sense?) -
True - but then the choice is theirs when they grow up perhaps?
Perhaps.
to be honest this plays alot on my mind - why does god allow it? Its like he created everything then took a step back to watch us self-destruct or something....
I remember asking somehting similar a while ago about these bad things -
God allows these to happen
and God knows that some people will commit these horrible crimes but he created them anyways - why?
and God knows he'll punish for these things - so why make those souls who are surely going to be going to "hell" in the first place? (does that make sense?)I did not respond to this right away because I wanted to think about it for a bit. I am still thinking...
Peace
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Salaam ay,
This example keeps coming to mind... a small child (say 5 years old) is brutally raped, beaten, tortured, and left for dead. The child survives to grow up and suffers horrible emotional trauma from the crime many years before. As an adult, he/she does experience some happiness, but there is no real freedom because the nightmares continue throughout his/her life.
We cannot comprehend the reason, but God has a purpose for everything. What could a tiny child have possibly done to deserve this? I can only conclude that justice will triumph on the last day. May God give the highest rewards to those who survive this kind of horror without any fault of their own.
Peace
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We cannot comprehend the reason, but God has a purpose for everything. What could a tiny child have possibly done to deserve this? I can only conclude that justice will triumph on the last day. May God give the highest rewards to those who survive this kind of horror without any fault of their own.
Peace
Peace,
I agree - ultimately it is a matter of faith and trusting God - because otherwise it doesnt make sense
i like the analogy that bro wakas gave earlier...maybe we are judging too soon?
If I may try an analogy... if you were an observer watching me standing over two hungry children fighting over a piece of bread, and I stopped them and took the piece of bread from them and you paused the scene right there and began to draw conclusions on what happened and if it was fair or not, you might think I took the bread for myself (i.e. something unfair) or something else... however, if you unpaused it and let the story complete, you may see me break the bread into two equal portions and return it to the children, each with their own share.
Thus, if we go back to the original point, you are making your judgement on God as being unfair only halfway through the story. As I said before, if God exists, like your point of contention assumes, we should remember that this life is only part of the story, and there will be no injustice once the story is complete.I hope this was of help.
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salam. there is a mathala/example in the quran of musa/moses and his travels with an angel. i will not post the verse because i believe forcing people to read the quran is important. those opposed to reading quran are beyond help.
the mathala is, what appears to ignorant human beings as a bad thing is actually an excellent action from allah. human beings do not know enough to judge what is good and what is evil. this is why opinions and the ignorant beliefs of a person are evil, and plain obedience to allah is good.
allah says all good comes from him and all evil comes from human beings. the false idea that human beings are in a position to judge a situation, is foolishness. the morality human beings use to make judgments is an evil false god, an idol worship, this idol worship turns people away from allah, clear proof of its evil.
allah is the lord of sublime morality.
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Perhaps the answer is there is no divine reason to an event like the one described,as there may be no divine?However ther are reasons of a more simple human nature type,which have to be understood and dealt with by individuals and society.
Thanks brother alan. I do struggle with this because I have witnessed so much pain in the lives of children over the past 30 years. I've dedicated a lot of time (through work and volunteering) with children who've had painful experiences and face the same obstacles every day, without ceasing. I've held small children every day (weekends too) while they cried themself to sleep. We would talk about God and pray together. After some days I thought it will get easier for them... then after some weeks... then after some months... and they were still crying themself to sleep saying the same things they said months ago. They asked the same questions... "why did this happen to me?" - "did I do something wrong?" - "am I being punished for being naughty?", etc. From my experience, kids are more at peace with God when they get a disease or have an accident... but agonize when they are hurt intentionally by another person because that is much harder for them to understand.
Peace
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Peace all,
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.2286 God does not burden a soul beyond its means. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. ?Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people.?
6152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
Remember that no soul gets more than they can bear. People are different and have different levels of tolerance. Bad things happen to everybody. I believe it is evil to think that all this suffering is "by bad luck" as supposed to divine will as it trivializes the incident.
945 So with hardship comes ease.
946 With hardship comes ease.Peace