salat timing
-
?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
" All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
I think u may be right, looking at it from this way...It depends now with me on weather the " is suppose to be at the end of 17110 or at the end of " Him" in the first sentance...Example
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him."
And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that.
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
It does not have to be recited before each prayer... I never said that it has to be ( i dont think ), but I did say that it was proof to do so ( based on my previous inderstanding )...
-
Yep, that's what I'm trying to illustrate to you Of course it's good recite whatever you feel inspired to from the Qu'ran at any time you feel like (in prayer or not), but to say a statement from the Qu'ran "PROVES" something is a bold statement and shouldn't be taken lightly. If there is even a smidgeon of doubt you can not say that it is "PROVEN," only that it is your belief, or theory, or understanding. Do you see?
As far as the position of the quotations go, I am not sure. Either way I would, God-willing, still tell that believer of the other religion the whole statement; better yet I would give them the Qu'ran to read for themselves. Where they fall does not change the general topic of that set of verses, but the study and interpretation of verses is best left to each individual; and shared as belief and theory, not as "Qu'ran proves this!" There are some things that we KNOW the Qu'ran says (feed the poor, don't eat pork, etc) but there are many verses that we can not yet say we know the meaning to. God-willing one day we will be able to say of each verse "this verse proves this" but until we have a better understanding of the Qu'ran (through study and comparison) we need to be careful about how we present our interpretations (as theory or as Truth from God, theory preferably).
But that's just my suggestion for you. take it or leave it.
-
The position of the qoutations determines if my " therory" is correct...
And also what the word " and " refers to at the beginning of 111 ( And say )....ect...
If we look at it this way
Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him."
And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that.
Then this would strenthen my " theroy"....
If we look at it this way
Say " Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
then this would be instructions to them, and it would thus make sence that 111 is also instructions to them ( telling them that all praises to God who did not take a son....ect....and telling them to glorify Him greatly....
peace
-
Salaam,
My understanding is that this affirmation should be said because the quran tells us to say it. If we go back to the previous verse ; 17110 we can see that these two verses go together. First it tells us what tone to use in Salat then it continues and tells ut what to say... it starts off with>>> AND SAY, the word AND implies that it is a continuation of the previous verse, and therefor should be proclaimed in the salat.
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
Salamun aleikom!
-
My reasoning for not taking "salawati" in 2238-239 as "prayers" comes from the context if you look at the verses preceeding it and the verses after it they are about marriage. The word "salawat" can mean many things other than just prayer, according to the rootlist
Sad-Lam-Waw prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached. In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached). Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.
It would make sense, in the context, that "salawat" and "salat" would not be referring to "prayers" and "prayer" but rather, to "remain attached." From the same lexicon, "wusta"
Waw-Siin-Tay = middle, midst, among, best, best part of a thing, mediate/intercede between, most remote from the extremes, equidistant, intermediate, most conforming/equitable/just/balanced, most excellent of them in particular.
When we consider the verse in context, that it must be about marriage; 2238 would be most appropriately interpreted as "Preserve the connections (between you and your wives), and the best/central connection (between you and God), and stand before God obeying humbly." We should STAY MARRIED AND OBEDIENT TO GOD, being disobedient to GOD will cause stress in our relationship possibly causing divorce; or divorce is disobedient to GOD.
239 now makes sense in this context, as maintaining the marriage while in fear (of an enemy or disaster). It ties elegantly into 240 being about leaving a widow (in case you did maintain the connection while fleeing but were killed while away). This is how literature works; one verse leads into the next, they make sense in an orderly fashion and work together with one another. Your interpretation assumes that the only meaning of the root Sad-Lam-Waw is prayer. If you consider that it can have multiple meanings this verse gains a beautiful connection with it's context.
So now that I have explained my reasoning, I will reiterate my original statement To say that 2239-239 is about prayer breaks up the flow of the chapter and the beauty of the literature; but to say that those verses are about marriage reestablishes the logical order and consistent meaning of the verses preceeding and succeeding them.
Peace,
Very good post. May The God continue to grant us knowledge and understanding of His revelations. Surely, He is the all-knowing, able to enlighten us in all things.
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Salaam,
My understanding is that this affirmation should be said because the quran tells us to say it. If we go back to the previous verse ; 17110 we can see that these two verses go together. First it tells us what tone to use in Salat then it continues and tells ut what to say... it starts off with>>> AND SAY, the word AND implies that it is a continuation of the previous verse, and therefor should be proclaimed in the salat.
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
Salamun aleikom!
Salaam Deenor,
The positions of the qutations determines if we are right. These verses are written two ways
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
- 17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between. "
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.And glorify Him greatly."
Thus
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.?
Here we are instructed to say this to them.
17110 And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
Here we are being told not to show off nor be quiet with prayer and to seek a way between that.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.?
Here we are being told to say this after forming your intention for prayer.
17111 And glorify Him greatly.
Here we are being told to Glorify God greatly after saying the statement. ( or to praise Him much/ repetedly, ect...)
Now lets look at it from the alternative view, with the " qutations " covering the whole verses, as is lteraly translated
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between. "
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.And glorify Him greatly. "
Here we are being told to tell them who to call upon, and tell them not to showoff nor be quiet.
And then we are being told to tell the praises to God who has no son, nor partner nor ally out of weakness. And that they should glorify Him greatly.
In other words we will be instructed to tell them the whole statment of 110 - 111. Therefore the proclamation to them would look like this
?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
" All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
The position of the qutations in 17110 - 111 determines if we are to say this in prayer ( towards God ), or if we are to say all of it to them.
peace
-
Salaam Deenor,
The positions of the qutations determines if we are right. These verses are written two ways
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
- 17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between. "
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.And glorify Him greatly."
Thus
Here we are being told not to show off nor be quiet with prayer and to seek a way between that.
Here we are being told to say this after forming your intention for prayer.
Here we are being told to Glorify God greatly after saying the statement. ( or to praise Him much/ repetedly, ect...)
Now lets look at it from the alternative view, with the " qutations " covering the whole verses, as is lteraly translated
Here we are being told to tell them who to call upon, and tell them not to showoff nor be quiet.
And then we are being told to tell the praises to God who has no son, nor partner nor ally out of weakness. And that they should glorify Him greatly.
In other words we will be instructed to tell them the whole statment of 110 - 111. Therefore the proclamation to them would look like this
?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating.?
" Call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that."
" All praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly."
The position of the qutations in 17110 - 111 determines if we are to say this in prayer ( towards God ), or if we are to say all of it to them.
peace
Peace. I suggest you start from verse 107 and not verse 110 in order to fully understand the scope of the "say" command. GOD tells us who we are to "say" that to and under what specific conditions.
Peace.
-
Peace. I suggest you start from verse 107 and not verse 110 in order to fully understand the scope of the "say" command. GOD tells us who we are to "say" that to and under what specific conditions.
Peace.
Its all about the position of the qutations right now...This determines if My " theory " is that or proof...
-
giveup
Dont give up bra, ;D
Your objective analasis is what made my evedence to be " theroy." And made me review my posts.
The position of the qutations is what will tell weather u or me is right.
If the qutations dont cover the whole verse in both them verses then it would thus be absolute proof to say this beging prayer or at least sometime threw it. And everything in my teachings will thus remain.
And if not then things will change. Do you see were im coming from?
peace
-
Its all about the position of the qutations right now...This determines if My " theory " is that or proof...
Salaam Anthony,
There are no quotation marks in the arabic.. the verse starts with a command QUL = SAY! If we were to read this in arabic we would not be able to go by the position of the quotations( because there are none). I believe the prophet and his followers knew what to say without having the "quotations" determining where the frase begins and where it ends. They knew, just as we are able to tell from the grammatical structure of theses verses.
)
-
Salaam Anthony,
There are no quotation marks in the arabic.. the verse starts with a command QUL = SAY! If we were to read this in arabic we would not be able to go by the position of the quotations( because there are none). I believe the prophet and his followers knew what to say without having the "quotations" determining where the frase begins and where it ends. They knew, just as we are able to tell from the grammatical structure of theses verses.
)
Peace,
Then it would thus look like this
17110 Say call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him. And do not raise your voise through prayer, and do not be quiet and hide with it, and form an intention between that.
17111 And say all praises to God who did not take a son, nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor does He have an all out of weakness. And glorify Him greatly.
I think we might be right. This how I see it
-
We are told to say to them " call upon God, or call upon the Merciful; whatever you call upon, then the best names are for Him." 17110
-
after sayin the above to them..., We are being instructed not to show offs with our prayers, and not to overawe and hide with it neither, but we are to form an intention between that. 17110
-
After we have formed our intention for prayer... we are instructed to say "Praise be to God who did not take a son nor does He have a partner in soverinty, nor ally out of weakeness." 17111
-
Then we are instructed to glorify God greatly... after the statement. 17111
hmm
-
-
Salaam,
My understanding is that this affirmation should be said because the quran tells us to say it. If we go back to the previous verse ; 17110 we can see that these two verses go together. First it tells us what tone to use in Salat then it continues and tells ut what to say... it starts off with>>> AND SAY, the word AND implies that it is a continuation of the previous verse, and therefor should be proclaimed in the salat.
17110 Say ?Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your communion, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.
17111 And say ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And glorify Him greatly.
Salamun aleikom!
I think that's perfectly valid.
-
Try analyzing it in the context of being about marriage/divorce, because that is what the verses around it are about.
Edip-Layth - End Note 66 (223
...Some people understand the phrase sala al wusta to mean "prayer is good" rather than the "middle prayer," and they have therefore inferred two prayers a day, rather than three prayers. However, diligent research on this issue and the waning of the sectarian influence is helping clarifying the issue. See, the Appendix, Sala Prayer According to the Quran. The interruption of the subject on divorce with verses about the contact prayers does not violate textual coherence, since one of the purposes of the prayer is to ask for God's help and guidance during difficult times, and divorce is one of those times. See 245; 2945. -
Yep, that's what I'm trying to illustrate to you Of course it's good recite whatever you feel inspired to from the Qu'ran at any time you feel like (in prayer or not), but to say a statement from the Qu'ran "PROVES" something is a bold statement and shouldn't be taken lightly. If there is even a smidgeon of doubt you can not say that it is "PROVEN," only that it is your belief, or theory, or understanding. Do you see?
As far as the position of the quotations go, I am not sure. Either way I would, God-willing, still tell that believer of the other religion the whole statement; better yet I would give them the Qu'ran to read for themselves. Where they fall does not change the general topic of that set of verses, but the study and interpretation of verses is best left to each individual; and shared as belief and theory, not as "Qu'ran proves this!" There are some things that we KNOW the Qu'ran says (feed the poor, don't eat pork, etc) but there are many verses that we can not yet say we know the meaning to. God-willing one day we will be able to say of each verse "this verse proves this" but until we have a better understanding of the Qu'ran (through study and comparison) we need to be careful about how we present our interpretations (as theory or as Truth from God, theory preferably).
But that's just my suggestion for you. take it or leave it.
Excellently put.
I think this is the safest way of seeing things.
A dogmatic attitude does little for the development of an idea, and even less still for the dogmatists themselves.