Sunni scholar unable to answer a question on live TV infront of millions.

Soof

Peace

Islam is not a religion based pure intentions and blind faith. It is a religion based on reasoning, investigation, questioning and reflecting. If people are not using their reason God likens them to cattle and he implores us to verify what we find. It is easy for people to be lead astray if they just "follow what they found their fathers doing" and that will not be an excuse for them when they are in front of God. In other worrds a muslim should INDEED get involved in these issues,in fact it is your duty to understand your religion, becuase it is a very serious matter. If peope were questioning and using their minds we would not have such a terrible ignorance in the Islamic world and there would be no need for scholars. Everyone has a brain. I hope people are shaken by it.

dc2

could anyone think they could put some annotations on this vid to translate the bit where the scholar is unable to answer the question?

khyaletanzim

is there anyone who have answered this mystery?

farida

is there anyone who have answered this mystery?

Its an Arabian mystery, for elite club members only.

peace

dc2

well i guess someone would have to download the video, re publish it on their channel and then use the new youtube annotations feature to add subtitles. and they would need to speak arabic. thats the part i fall off. it is a bit of bother.

palestina

could someone add subtitles or summarise here? I struggle with the speed of the egyptian accent and missed alot of it

Samia

This is a quick translation of the first two parts. I could not download part three. When it becomes downloadable I will translate it

Part 1
At first the two scholars were reluctant to discuss the question of ?maa malakat aymaanukum?.
The broadcaster insisted, saying that on the internet and media in general, just one critic of Islam discussed the issue 20 times and non of our scholars or the public was able to answer , and that this ignorance led to our children be apostates. The scholar insisted that they should not answer these discussions, just te way you will not bark back at a dog. At the end she succeeded in making them talk
Scholar MMA is there in the qur?aan. Shall we remove it or what?
BC But if someone gets a MMA, he will be committing a crime. Yes or no?
Sheikh How can he get one? He should be involved in war, and if he is victorious, she, her father and all her clan will be MMA.
It?s a deterrent so that no one attacks Muslims
Scholar It is not about men being lustrous. Women too have MMA. But because a woman is pure, chaste and guards her private parts, she sets them free, so that there won?t be any mixture of genealogy.
Part 2
BC Why do you think we are discussing the problem? To attack or to defend Islam?
Scholar Of course you want to defend.
BC Then why the sheikh boycotted the program?
Shouldn?t we ask these questions and learn, or just sweep them under the carpet?
Sheikh Of course we should discuss them, but I won?t go to the mosque and do it in a speech for the Friday prayer. Is it the only problem of women?
(Sheikh re-enters . He?s back to insisting not to discuss such a topic)
BC What is the legal status of this MMA? Isn?t it permissible?
Sheikh But this applies to non believers, uncivilized nations, people who have no morals; but the ?shar3/Islamic law? wants this door closed.
BC What the law wishes is something, and reality is another. The prophet died and slavery was not prohibited. Yes or No?
Sheikh Yes
BC Good! So MMA is permissible?
Sheikh You want to ask people to go kidnap women?
BC No. I am not. We are referring to the dialogue with the West. How can we prepare a dialogue to reply to the other?
Sheikh I am against that. We should discuss what we may agree upon.
BC In the qur?aan there?s discussion of other faith and address to them. Does Islam allow them to discuss our faith?
Sheikh No. Tell them take it or leave it. It is a preconceived animosity to Islam they either not believe in it or criticize it
BC OK. And if we are asked?
Sheikh these are legal topics not to be discussed.
BC 90% of muslims, and I am one of them, we do not know the wisdom behind MMA
Sheikh Not important that you know.
BC But how do we understand MMA?
Sheikh Are you going to analyse God?s wisdom?
BC This is not about God?s wisdom. It?s about human right.
Sheikh It?s up to everyone what to do.
BC 2-3 years ago the supreme council of Islamic affairs held a conference in which they discussed accusations against Islam, and Dr Zagzoug published a big book addressing and responding to these accusations made by non muslims. But the historical question we want to understand together is What are the sources of slavery in Islam Is it just the wars?

dc2

thanks for that Samia, that's alot of effort. just one question
"maa malakat aymaanukum" means whom your right had possesses?

Samia

thanks for that Samia, that's alot of effort. just one question
"maa malakat aymaanukum" means whom your right had possesses?

Yes, and you are welcome!
Sorry I should have clarified this.
BC broadcaster; Sheikh The scholar in a cloak; Scholar the other man in a suit (from lazhar)

Samia

Unfortunately, this is the message I received in response to non-availability of part 3

"This video has been removed due to terms of use violation"
This is why I was never able to download it! I think this is the most interesting part.

Supernaut

air,

I think it's far better to be an atheist than a Sunni or a Shia. However, being a muslim is clearly the best.

afridi220

Unfortunately, this is the message I received in response to non-availability of part 3

"This video has been removed due to terms of use violation"
This is why I was never able to download it! I think this is the most interesting part.

Salam samia
The Part three is not removed it is still there. this is the problem with youtube some time you have to try again and again to watch a video.

Just try
peace

farida

Unfortunately, this is the message I received in response to non-availability of part 3

"This video has been removed due to terms of use violation"
This is why I was never able to download it! I think this is the most interesting part.

Salaam Samia
Thanks a lot for your effort, as Afridi says next part is avalible, we would look forward to more at your convience.
peace

Samia

Salaam farida, afridi and all
You are welcome. It was a pleasure translating it becuase then I had to pay attention to every word, which I do not usually do when listening. It is good to know it is still there. I will check and translate part 3, God willing.

Samia

Part 3

BC What were the sources of slavery for muslims? Was it just war or trade as well?
Scholar All markets in Makkah were known and none of them were slavery markets, and God has blessed their trade in Chapter 106.
BC But how did Khadiga acquired Zaid bin Harith?
Scholar She did not buy him. He was a gift from her nephew who bought it from some bandits who stole the kid.
BC This means she accepted the gift knowing that the kid was stolen, then why didn?t she free him?
Scholar At that time islam was not revealed yet, and the prophet was just a kid.
(the sheikh is interrupting and grumbling, not happy with such questions. The BC turns towards him)
BC Please be patient with me. I am unable to say a single word
Sheikh I am surprised that there is a program that discusses matters not for discussion.
BC Is this how you speak to anyone who wants to talk to you?
Sheikh I have decide, if I live, not to accept any invitation (to talk)
BC Where should we turn then with our questions?
Sheik Not every question that comes to the mind should be asked
BC Do we have to select the questions in advance?
Sheikh You are an educated woman speaking on behalf of the people. Just like they go to the doctor in his clinic and to the mechanics in his workshop, they should go to their sheikh in the local mosque.
BC Is this acceptable? Should I tell them they are ignorant and should be educated in order to be able to ask Dr. Jamal al-Banna?
Sheikh Of course, of course; and I repeat it. Who is not pleased let them explode (aka my way or the highway).
Scholar The media is also an education venue and entered every home...
Sheikh (interrupting) do you accept to discuss MMA in one episode?
Scholar No, of course, but she asks a question on behalf of people who have no access to us. The questions were not prepared in advance
Sheikh They should be programmed in advance...Against her strategy
Scholar That?s Ok; it is about Zaid only...we talk about Zaid. His father was very sad and made poetry wondering where his son was or if he was alive or dead. He was sold in the market place. As you know from Arabs history tribes used to invade each other at night. There are very sad stories...I will talk about some, just to move away from this tension. A man had a dog, a rooster and a goat. The rooster died, he said (Alhamdulillah), then the dog died (he said Alhamdulillah) and the goat died and he said (Alhamdulillah). He then realized that this was for his and his family?s salvation, because another tribe invaded the area. If these animals were alive, they would have made voices that would have alerted the enemy to his home, and he and his family would have been murdered or taken in captivity. Then came islam and declared that ?the whole muslim person is prohibited to another muslim his money; his blood and his land?, and that it prohibited incest and flirting with the wife of your brother, and ordered the Muslim to pay for getting married and the pay should be equivalent to her status and not less . We need three thousand episodes to teach them how to protect the chastity of muslims , and about the strong oath between the couple, and about not disciplining the woman and deserting the bed and all this nonsense.
BC Sir, I have a comment with which I would like to end the discussion. When this discussion started, it took dimensions that were not planned or expected, in summary we shall say, please do not attempt to discuss issues that call for lot of talk because we are not ready for that, and may God be your and our guardian. I will end this episode by saying that I will reverse the introduction ?let?s ask?, and say ?asking is useless and should confront the scholars when everyone is ready?. Thanks to our scholars, and I hope that you consider this episode as an alarm to what?s happening to the Islamic call today.

Al_Araf

salam. this verse is a perfect example of where those who were raised speaking a dialect should be careful not to confuse their understanding of their dialect, with understanding the quran.

al azhar is an egyptian school of islamic study, which acquired the title of university in egypt. egyptians speak a language called masri. masri originated in the lower nile delta, and was heavily influenced by the copto-egytian language. later it was influenced by turkish, french, and english. masri has heavily influenced arabic due to the influence of egyptian television shows and movies in the arab world. there is also another language called maghrabi, which the speakers refer to as a dialect, found towards the western end of north africa.

quranic arabic, is based on the medieval arabic of the hijazi tribes of quraish, from saudi arabia. quranic arabic has similarities in pronounciation and conjugation to hebrew, aramaic, and amharic.

the difference in languages is not evident to a person who has not lived in the middle east, however those who speak, read and write arabic, and have lived in saudi arabia, egypt, and morocco, can attest to the differences. these differences are not insignificant.

the commonly found translation of, illa ma malkat aymanakum, except those whom your right hands possess, has problems, and the problem is well known to azhar students as well as hijazi arabs. malkat is a derivative of malik, malik is usually translated as king, mulk is translated as kingdom, malaik is translated as angels, however malkat has another form, possession. the word aymanakum, is derived from yamin, the right, as in a right turn direction, there is a minor use of the term to indicate right hand possession, as in your right hand. the major usage tend to indicate the translation to be, except those who you rule of the right turn, which causes difficulties in comprehension.

the result is some students of the quran believe this is a reference to those who are possessed and controlled as a matter of right. however, on cannot exclude other possibilities, for example those who are in your guardianship who have made the right choices. there could be other conclusions that i am unaware of. presently there is no evidence i am aware of as to how this phrase was implemented in the hijaz during the time of muhammad. this term malkat aymankum may have been used to define a slave. there is also the possibility that this may be of a future usage of which we are currently unaware.

the azhar students are aware that some women are opposed to the concept of being inheritances, wards of a guardian, indentured servants, or slaves. whether they are opposed to these concepts or not, rather than attempt to harass azhar students, they should come to their own conclusions as to whether they are opposed to these concepts and if they are, then make a decision if the laws of allah are acceptable to them or not. azhar students are not a whipping post for their issues with quran verses.

allah is the law.

wildguest1956

Thanks for the translation, Samia

Who is this scholar ?
Is it Jamal al-Banna ?

Peace

afridi220

The Quran had come as a light and beacon for mankind, to ?regulate? social relations and to giude the believeing men & women with the following verses

?Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes, and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them?.? (2430)

?And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary?.? (2431)

?O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments?? (3359)

?You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married?? (2432)

?Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace?? (2433)

?The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes?? (242)

The above verses are just a ?sample? of the moral laws which regulate human social behaviour.

Yet, with all these clear verses, we are AMAZED as how todays sectarian Muslims have turned GOD?s system into one which not only ?allows? multiple sex partners, but actually ENCOURAGES fornication and sex out of wed-lock!.

In todays sectarianism, we see that men have the following licence

To have sex with AS-MANY women as possible if they are ?slaves? or ?war-captives?.

This blasphemy towards GOD and His messenger has made a mockery of the true teachings of the Quran and has made ?in-valid? all the verses which were revealed to regulate human society!.

Arab & Muslim men think that GOD has given them such a priveladge because He knows that they are ?men? and thus need to have thier sexual desires filfilled by more than one women.

It is also ?ironic? that these sectarians make fun of the West and call them ?infadels? for having sex with women outside wed-lock. The ?hypocracy? of the situation is that they have more sex with more women under the LIE that GOD?s perfect system authorized this.

?They commit a gross sin, then say, ?We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it.? Say, ?GOD never advocates sin. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?? (72

In this article, we will adress the issue of ?Ma Malakat Aymanukum? (those whom your right hands possess) whom we will PROVE does not mean servants or war captives.

?Those who listen to the utterance so as to follow the BEST of its goodness thereof; those are the ones whom The GOD has guided and those are the people of understanding? (Quran 391

What is the ?licence? given for ?Ma Malakat Aymanukum??.

?And they maintain their chastity. Only with their spouses OR those whom thier ?right hand posseses? (Ma Malakat Aymanuhum), do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed.? (235-6)

This is really the fundamental issue, that the Quran in the above verse (and other verses) ALLOWS a man to have sexual relations with a certain category of women?But just exactly WHO are these people with whom sexual relations is allowed!.

Are these people ?servants? who work in our homes, and whom we can have sex with?

Let us first see what the word used for servants in the Quran.

The word used for servants in the Arabic language and in the Quran is ?Abd?. Here are a few verses from the Quran where ?Abd? is used

?And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your servants (Ibadikum) and your female servants; if they are poor, The GOD will make them free from want out of His grace; and The GOD is Ample-giving, Knowing.? (Quran 2432)

?If Thou dost punish them, they are thy servants (Ibadak); if Thou dost forgive them, thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise.? (Quran 511

?Verily those whom ye call upon besides The GOD are servants (Ibadun) like unto you call upon them, and let them listen to your prayer, if ye are truthful!? (Quran 7194)

And in the following verse, GOD has forbidden messengers to have people serve them instead of Him

?It is not meet for a mortal that The GOD should give him the Book and the wisdom and Prophethood, then he should say to men Be my servants(Ibaad) rather than The GOD?s; but rather Be servants of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading it.? (Quran 379)

So, if the Quran clearly has a word for ?servants?, then that rules out ?Ma Malakat Aymankum?.

Is this word used for war-captives?

This is the PRIME argument used by the sectarians. That ?Ma Malakat Aymanukum? are ?war captives? whom they have captured and thus can sell and trade in them, and can have sex with them as they wish.

The word in the Quran for ?Captives? is ?Asra?.

Here are a few verses using this word consistently

?And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive (Asartum) another part.? (Quran 3326)

?And they feed, for the love of The GOD, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive (Aserun).? (Quran 76

?After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist against them, in guilt and rancor; and if they come to you as captives (Asra), ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them?? (Quran 285)

Well, unfortunately for the sectarians, there is already a word for ?Captives? and it is NOT ?Ma Malakat Aymanunkum?!.

How does one have ?sex? with Ma Malakat Aymanukum?.

Now that we have elimintaed ?Servants? & ?Captives?, below is a clue that may lead us to the correct nature of this relationship

?Those among you who cannot afford to WED believing women, then from the believing young girls from among those whom ?your right hands posses? (Ma Malakat Aymanukum). GOD knows best about your belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. WED them with permission from their guardians, and before you marry them pay them their due dowry equitably. They shall maintain moral behavior, by not committing adultery, or having secret lovers. Once they are taken in WEDLOCK, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half of that for the women. This is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.? (Quran 425)

Hold on a minute!. Has not anyone seen this verse before?.

In the clearest possible words, GOD is telling us that those who wish to ?have sex? with these women (Ma Malakat Aymanukum) MUST marry them!.

In-fact, the Quran lays out some rules for such a marriage

Concent of their parents/guardians;
Paying them their dowry.

This does not quite sound like the ?jump-on-them? when you feel like teachings that have been spread by the sectarians!.

This talks about a MARRIAGE with its rules and regulations?

Who are these people?

Perhaps now we can get to the heart of the matter ?Who are these people??.

Clue # 1 These people can be LIVING in our Homes!.

?O you who believe, permission must be requested by those ?whom your oaths posses? (Malakat Aymanukum) and the children who have not attained puberty. This is to be done in three instances-before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.? (245

Clue # 2 These people are DEPENDANT os us financialy!.

?He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves Do you have from amongst those whom ?your oaths posseses? (Ma Malakat Aymanukum) as partners to the provisions We have provided for you?. To the level where you fear them as you fear yourselves?. We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.? (302 - See also 436

Clue # 3 They are an ?Exception? to regular marriage restrictions.

?Also prohibited are the women who are already married, except those whom your oaths posses? (Ma Malakat Aymanukum). These are GOD?s commandments to you?? (424)

Summary

The term ?Ma Malakat Aymanukum? refers to females only (424);
These are females who are living in a man?s ?houshold? (245;
These are females who are ?dependant? on us financially (436);
These are females who have family or guardians (425);
These are females who are the ?Exception? to marrying a married woman (424).

Our understanding is that ?Ma Malakat Aymanukum? are widowed women who may be living under the roof and financial support of a man (her family, or the brother or relative of the deceased) and thus are described by the term ?what your OATHS posses? (i.e. due to the responsibility).

Marriage to such women is allowed in the Quran under slightly different terms & conditions than other women

jedi

afridi220

Here is a debate about this in another forum

08
May
07Ma Malakat Aymanukum
post info
By Stefan
Categories Islam, Quran and Religion
Ads by Google
07CUBE wedding projects
no limits to your imagination Como lake weddings. Italy
www.07cube.com