Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Umm Tariq,
I appreciate your post. I understand what you mean about how the starting dates vary and which will vary the whole time waiting, this happens whether one uses 'full moon' or 'month. However, notice that I was referring to 'the minimum' in both verses. I was looking at the consistency of the two verses. In the minimum, if you translate 654 using 'full moon' then it will automatically equal the time in 2228, in the minimum. You see what I am talking about? If you use 'month' then, in the minimum, they do not agree and that's what for me, gives weight to 'full moon'.
654 gives the maximum (3 months) which includes the minimum case.
2228 And the divorced wait with themselves 3 menstrual cycles
3 menstrual cycles can vary between 2 - 3 months.
654?so their term/count (is) three months
3 months is the maximum for 3 menstrual cycles. No contradiction.
Yeah, I just noticed something, you only put possible dates based on the menstrual cycles which is a clear marker. If we do the same for the women in 654 using 'month' (this is my contention) then this is what we get
Full Moon/Month Dates 2008
September 15 415 A.M.
October 14 304 P.M.
November 13 1219 A.M.
December 12 1038 A.M.If divorce is on Oct. 13 she waits for 3 'months', until Jan. 13th.
If divorce is on Oct. 13 she waits for 3 'full moons' until Dec. 12th (2 'months' approx.)
If divorce is on Oct 13 she waits 3 menstrual cycles or 2 months
If divorce is on Sept. 16 she waits for 3 'full moons' (just shy of 3 months total)\
If divorce is on Sept 16 she waits 3 menstrual cycles or 3 months maximum
You see the agreement between menstrual cycles calculations and full moons as opposed to using 'months' outright? In the minimum case for 'months', 3 months is 3 months.
Do you see that 654 3 months covers any 3 menstrual cycles?
I don't see the difference in how women past menopause read the above since it's for whoever's husband has died. They of course can't count by menstrual cycles but they can count by 'full moons' as well which as you can see would come out, in the minimum to be 3 'months' and 10 days. Using the dates example helped bring more clarity to the issue.
The verse says wait 4 months and 10 days.
If they go outside each night/day to see 4 full moons they can be 28 days too early.
That is disobedience to a commandment of God.
Too many inconsistencies with full moons -- what are 4 sacred full moons?
936 That the months' number/count at God (are) twelve in God's scripture, (on) the day He created the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth, from it four (are) sacred...
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Salaam belal
Would you agree, based on the verses I provided, that we can not say that Sana means Drought?
Also, the verse you quoted does not have to be Drought, but could mean other meanings. It could mean that for years God punished the people of Pharos.It's just not the style of the qur'aan which usually tells us what the punishment was, not how long it lasted.
Agree based on verses 15-26, 28. But in these verses The Mud could be Red Mud as well; don't you agree? thus, The meaning I refered to could be right, if we take the root word for Hamma'a into consideration. The Root word is "Hamia", which means HOT.
Hama' and Haamia are two different words that do not share the same root. The first has the root (Ha Meem hamza), which generlly means black/black mud; the second has the root (Ha Meem Ya), which means hot.
In verses 15-26,28, it is clear that "hama' '" is black clay...from which is derived the noun adam dust, crust of the earth; also a black/dark person. -
We can count days through sunrise and its setting, we can count months with either cresent moon or full? but i guess full would be better to start counting a month because we cant miss it. NOw my question is how do we count years?
if we ignore the Red moon , then there is no natural marker available. Moreover the ayah saying, "count of the month is twelve" is precisely there for this purpose, so that we can start counting from a natural celestial marker and ignore the 13th if it is there to auto correct, along the sun cycle, makes sense to me.
siki
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Peace Siki,
We can count days through sunrise and its setting, we can count months with either cresent moon or full? but i guess full would be better to start counting a month because we cant miss it. NOw my question is how do we count years?
17.12. We have made the night and the day as two signs the sign of the night we have obscured, while the sign of the day we have made visible so that you may seek favors from your lord, and so that you may know the number of years and the calculation, and we have explained all things in detail.
The ONLY possible way to use "night and day" to know the number of years is to look at the interval between two consecutive shortest daylight/longest night (winter solstice) or two consecutive shortest night/longest daylight (summer solstice).
Of course, the etymology of "shahr ramadan" points to the scorching full-moon after the summer solstice.
Peace,
Ayman
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He does not need our fastings, it is for us , it probably does something good to our bodies, so
He wants us to fast from the first light , which is probably the earliest possible marker, to the night(dusk) last possible marker, He could have easily prescribed , From sun rise to sun set, but he doesnt, why? May be he wants our bodies to toil through a longer duration to extract optimum benifit.
If long duration is the criteria then , fasting in summer solictise makes sense, Rotating through winters, a fast is hardly a fast , infact a winter day fast is like not fasting at all ,
The guys down under can fast during their Red moon for achieving the prescribed benifit, It does not have to be in synch with we living up here,
Moreover the Ayah , saying , who so ever witnesses it shall... is clearly indicating/saying, .... when your time comes do it, and what is that time? summer , longest days , THe toughest time of the year to Cycle our mortal bodies. And indirectly conveying that they should not do it with us , because it will be their winters.
And most likely it is days not a month, cause the command uses the word days , not month, had it been a whole full month , He would not have used the word days.
siki
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Moreover the Ayah , saying , who so ever witnesses it shall... is clearly indicating/saying, .... when your time comes do it, and what is that time? summer , longest days , THe toughest time of the year to Cycle our mortal bodies. and it clearly indicates that they should not do it with us , because it will be their winters.
This is a good remark
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Peace everyone,
Peace,
I never claimed that if someone's eyes burned they turned any color. Most times they do turn red (sometimes they don't turn any color). But how do we know this is pink eye?
I did a great injustice to this discusion by not looking up these quotes of yours before
(Translation She did not apply anitmony (to her eyes) until her eyes started to burn.)
(if the feminine taktahil refers to the eyes then the translation is They (the eyes) were bothered until her eyes started to burn.)
In lisan al-arab iktahala is likened to kuhhala (passive of kahhala) and it says 'jufoonu 3uyoonin bil-qadhaa lam tukahhal' (The eyelids of the eyes with a foreign particle in them are not unbothered/at rest/at ease/refershed) it says that takahhala and iktahhala can be used the same way.
(Her eyes were pricked until they started to burn)
(shakka is to prick or jab with a lance an arrow or anything sharp, taskhakkaa would be a constant state of being pricked.)
So again, no mention of pink eye here. Ayman you are acting like pink eye is the only disease of the eye. And these contexts are talking about a disease of the eye that is cured most likely with antimony and that make the eyes BURN. That is the meaning of tarmidaan and tarmid here; TO BURN (To be or feel extremely hot (not to carbonize))
Now I am not being arugmentative but you are injected red into the meaning of ramada when burning is the only meaning there. Even iktahala is when the eyes are refreshed from sleep or from being healed and when they DON'T BURN. iktahala is the relief of the eyes from burning or the application of antimony to heal the eyes.
Please stop this interjection of meaning. There is nothing here that says that this is talking about pink eye or red eyes. It is talking about burning eyes in particular. The redness is optional, and not in the meaning here.
Thank you for the quotes. It is a shame most people cannot read Arabic well enough to see that you are injecting the color red into these quotes (you are injected pink eye as well) without red being there.
Godbless,
AnwarWhen I read this, 1736 came to my mind
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
I consulted a doctor friend of mine and also did some research about the eye. What I found is that whenever the eye burns because of any reason, be it an infection or foreign object etc., it is because of what is called "acute inflammation", and is ALWAYS accompanied by redness in the eye. The eye could belong to a white or a black guy, but it will ALWAYS be red in addition to burning. The redness is not "optional". This is because whenever there is acute inflammation, there is increased blood flow to the organ, causing swelling, heat, pain, and REDNESS.
Definition of "inflammation"
Inflammation (Latin, inflammatio, to set on fire) is the complex biological response of vascular tissues to harmful stimuli, such as pathogens, damaged cells, or irritants. It is a protective attempt by the organism to remove the injurious stimuli as well as initiate the healing process for the tissue.
Definition of "acute inflammation"
Acute inflammation is a short-term process which is characterized by the classic signs of inflammation - swelling, redness, pain, heat, and loss of function - due to the infiltration of the tissues by plasma and leukocytes. It occurs as long as the injurious stimulus is present and ceases once the stimulus has been removed, broken down, or walled off by scarring (fibrosis)
The burning eye as meant by "tarmad" would ALWAYS imply redness too; it is not "optional". Once the stimulus is removed, the pain, heat, redness, and swelling all go away. So "iktahala" is the relief of the eye from burning, which implies relief from redness too.
This has strengthened my faith in The Quran and has solidified the meaning of "shahru ramadhan" to be nothing else but "red hot full-moon". May God guide us all to the truth.
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Peace farida,
Therefore I don't need to remind that for all answers here (unless one's personal opinion) we need to give evidence from the Quran and on the subject of witnessing Ramadan, please correct me if I am wrong, the verses below confirm that it?s not only eyes and ears that bear witness, but even one?s skin bears witness.
4120 At length, when they reach the (Fire), their hearing, their sight, and their SKINs will bear witness against them, as to (all) their deeds.
4121 They will say to their SKINs "Why bear ye witness against us?" They will say "(Allah) hath given us speech,- (He) Who giveth speech to everything He created you for the first time, and unto Him were ye to return.
4122 "Ye did not seek to hide yourselves, lest your hearing, your sight, and your SKINs should bear witness against you! But ye did think that Allah knew not many of the things that ye used to do!
I will let ayman answer this but I have a question.
As is apparent from the above referenced verses, the skin will bear witness on the Last Day and not this life. The issue of fasting is in the here and now, and not in the hereafter. My question is that how can ears and skin witness a "shahr" ? Does an angel blow a trumpet during "shahr" or does the temperature suddenly jump many degrees ? hmm
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Peace bilal,
Peace;
Put yourself in the Prophet postion, would you prepare for a war four weeks before the 4 restricted month?
Verse 9-81 is after the 4 restricted Months, when the prophet had 8 month to go for a very important and hard war.
9-81 is the verse that collapsed the foundation of Ayman's theory, as you said in regard of Progod.But how come that you have a very deep knowledge of Ayman theory and your profile says that you just registered Today at 042510 AM.
Just a Question? confused
Anyway welcome to the Fourm ;D
Thank you for the welcome
I was commenting about progod and not ayman; perhaps you meant that I have "deep knowledge" of progod's theories?
If reading someone's posts on a thread gives me a "deep knowledge" of their theories, then BEWARE I have "deep knowledge" of your theories too
FOR YOUR INFORMATION One can read the posts on a forum for years without registering. !
As far as your argument is concerned
- Please prove that ALL wars ALWAYS last more than a month and back it up with undisputable evidence. Some wars in history have been decisively fought and won within a few days. Conversely, ALL wars do not ALWAYS end in 8 months; some can last years. So according to your logic, the believers should never start a war thinking "what if it lasts long enough to encroach on the following restricted shahoor".
The following gives a list of important short wars
http//listverse.com/politics/top-10-shortest-wars/
Any of those could have been started in May and would have ended before July
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Please prove from The Quran that the war mentioned in 981 lasted more than a month.
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Please prove from The Quran that the war mentioned in 981 was immediately after the restricted shahoor.
The above are enough to collapse your argument
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Peace nun,
To bear witness is to have knowledge of a thing which is not always physical.
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"To bear witness" is "to provide..........", not "to have...........".
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In 2185, as explained by samia already in one of the earlier posts, "shahida" does not mean "to bear witness" but "to witness". We can only witness something using our own senses, and to witness something is to witness it firsthand. To witness is not to rely on a secondhand information or a calendar. That is called "belief" or "trust". How can you witness an arbitrarily assigned man-made period of time known as a "month" using your senses ?
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Peace farida,
I will let ayman answer this but I have a question.
As is apparent from the above referenced verses, the skin will bear witness on the Last Day and not this life. The issue of fasting is in the here and now, and not in the hereafter.
My question is that how can ears and skin witness a "shahr" ? Does an angel blow a trumpet during "shahr" or does the temperature suddenly jump many degrees ? hmm
Finger prints, DNA sample from your skin can bear witness and are used in this life Now!
This is what I said beforeSalaam Anthony and everyone,
Indeed!! As I understand from the verse above, there is no undue expectations on the physically impaired and, performing within their capacity will earn them a reward on par with that of the able.
However the argument was how can one witness a month? so it must, here, imply the scorching moon, "shahr ramadan".
As we learn from verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify.
One can witness a month simply by being present in that month, as the skin is in touch with the atoms/molecules , water vapor mixture of gases, temperature etc., present at such a time. In this world ones finger prints and DNA can also testify against a person, but just imagine a blind one saying to God, on the Day of Judgement, I did not witness the month of Ramadan. His skin will then speak out against him.b. those amongst you who witnessed exclude only those who are mentally incapacitated.
These verses also made me realise that the deaf, the dumb and the blind are not excluded from testifying.
How does a deaf or dumb person bear witness?
By the use of eyes and skin, which would include using sign language, as well as employing writing tools. In both cases the skin is used to bear witness. Similarly a deaf person, capable of speaking, may use his sight and his lips/skin .
A blind person can use the skin (to feel with), along with the ears to witness and, regarding the month of Ramadan, a blind person has witnessed it simply by being present in his body, in that month .This, in my opinion, is conclusive evidence, but I would welcome any input from others.
I hope we can now look into a timing device, using the sun and the moon, as a next step forward.
peace
My concluding post said, summed up
I have strong proofs from the Quran to believe that;
Amongst those who witnessed the month of Ramadan include all those who are present in this month and can perceive with their ears their eyes and their skins.
More importantly the month of fasting is not confined to the months of extreme heat.
If we say that 181 has no relevance to the earlier verse 91-5 still the fighting must be going on either after the sacred months or before the sacred months, but the fight was not during Ramadan as, according to Ayman, Ramadan is one of the sacred months..
The war in the past did not last for six days or so; it involved a long period of time Now it is for everyone here who wants to find out truth to work it out for themselves. We are all answerable to Allah for our own deeds.peace
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Peace farida,
Finger prints, DNA sample from your skin can bear witness and are used in this life Now!
This is what I said beforeMy concluding post said, summed up
I have strong proofs from the Qur?an to believe that;
?Amongst those who witnessed? the month of Ramadan include all those who are present in this month and can perceive with their ears their eyes and their skins.
More importantly the month of fasting is not confined to the months of extreme heat.
If we say that 181 has no relevance to the earlier verse 91-5 still the fighting must be going on either after the sacred months or before the sacred months, but the fight was not during Ramadan as, according to Ayman, Ramadan is one of the sacred months..
The war in the past did not last for six days or so; it involved a long period of time Now it is for everyone here who wants to find out truth to work it out for themselves. We are all answerable to Allah for our own deeds.peace
You still have not answered my question. How can a blind man witness a "shahr" using ears and skin ?
You say that
?Amongst those who witnessed? the month of Ramadan include all those who are present in this month and can perceive with their ears their eyes and their skins.
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How can a blind man witness a "shahr" using his ears and skin ?
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EVERYONE is present during a "shahr". "Those among you who witness" obviously cannot mean "everyone". If everyone present is meant, the phrase would be "when the shahr is witnessed".
You say that
More importantly the month of fasting is not confined to the months of extreme heat.
If we say that 181 has no relevance to the earlier verse 91-5 still the fighting must be going on either after the sacred months or before the sacred months, but the fight was not during Ramadan as, according to Ayman, Ramadan is one of the sacred months..The war alluded to in 981 could have still been during heat if it was in June, just before "shahru ramadhan".
You say that
The war in the past did not last for six days or so; it involved a long period of time
Is that a fact ?
I asked bilal something and I will ask you the same. "HAATOO BURHAANAKUM", bring forth your proof if you are truthful!
- Please prove that ALL historical wars ALWAYS lasted more than a month and back it up with undisputable evidence. Some wars in history have been decisively fought and won within a few days. Conversely, ALL wars do not ALWAYS end in 8 months; some can last years. So according to your logic, the believers should never start a war thinking "what if it lasts long enough to encroach on the following restricted shahoor".
The following gives a list of important short wars
http//listverse.com/politics/top-10-shortest-wars/
Any of those could have been started in May and would have ended before July, and still be "during the heat" if fought in a desert in the Northern Hemisphere
- Please prove from The Quran that the war mentioned in 981 lasted more than a month.
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Peace progod,
Peace,
Truth seeker, feeding people to subsitute for a fast is expiating the fast. Plain and simple. THe reasons for the fast are to either to compensate certain actions or to uphold God's commands. But we expiate daily fasts by feeding people for each fast we do not do. That is not illogical or misleading.
Godbless,
AnwarFeeding people in 583-4 is not a compensation for fasting, but both are compensation for estranging one's wife, and are thus equivalent, but not compensation for the other.
Similarly in 589, feeding the people and fasting are compensation for breaking oath, and are thus equivalent but not compensation for the other. The ratio here, arrived by the same principle of EQUIVALENCE is 13.33 and not 11
For your theory to be correct, feeding 60 people should have been a DIRECT compensation for fasting 60 days (sitteen ayyaam).
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He does not need our fastings, it is for us , it probably does something good to our bodies, so
He wants us to fast from the first light , which is probably the earliest possible marker, to the night(dusk) last possible marker, He could have easily prescribed , From sun rise to sun set, but he doesnt, why? May be he wants our bodies to toil through a longer duration to extract optimum benifit.
If long duration is the criteria then , fasting in summer solictise makes sense, Rotating through winters, a fast is hardly a fast , infact a winter day fast is like not fasting at all ,
The guys down under can fast during their Red moon for achieving the prescribed benifit, It does not have to be in synch with we living up here,
Moreover the Ayah , saying , who so ever witnesses it shall... is clearly indicating/saying, .... when your time comes do it, and what is that time? summer , longest days , THe toughest time of the year to Cycle our mortal bodies. And indirectly conveying that they should not do it with us , because it will be their winters.
And most likely it is days not a month, cause the command uses the word days , not month, had it been a whole full month , He would not have used the word days.
siki
Salaam Siki
You are talking about the benefits of fasting- the benefits are huge, and thought provoking;
Here we should consider two aspects
a. The benefits of fasting - you can discover this as you pay attention and do research on this.b. The purpose of fasting - We have been given the purpose of fasting from God 2183 O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you, as it was decreed for those before you, that you may attain salvation.
The purpose of fasting is linked to feeding the poor and empathy. Unless one goes thorough an experience of hunger one cannot feel what it?s like for those who suffer starvation for whatever reason. For further details see
My detailed answer, the last post on Re Ramadan
? Reply #72 on September 12, 2008, 060839 PM ?
this link http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15421.60peace
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Peace truthseeker11,
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"To bear witness" is "to provide..........", not "to have...........".
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In 2185, as explained by samia already in one of the earlier posts, "shahida" does not mean "to bear witness" but "to witness". We can only witness something using our own senses, and to witness something is to witness it firsthand. To witness is not to rely on a secondhand information or a calendar. That is called "belief" or "trust". How can you witness an arbitrarily assigned man-made period of time known as a "month" using your senses ?
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One cannot provide without having (knowledge, etc???..).
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We witness a ?month? by having knowledge of it (i.e. the month of fasting).
Not always using physical senses thus even the blind can witness.
318 God witnessed that He, L? il?ha illa Huwa (there is no God except He), and the angels and those of the knowledge (also give witness)...
353 Our Lord, we believed with what You descended, and we followed the messenger, so write us with the witnessing/testifying (to the truth).
Now your turn -- what are 4 sacred full moons?
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Peace farida,
You still have not answered my question. How can a blind man witness a "shahr" using ears and skin ?
You say that
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How can a blind man witness a "shahr" using his ears and skin ?
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EVERYONE is present during a "shahr". "Those among you who witness" obviously cannot mean "everyone". If everyone present is meant, the phrase would be "when the shahr is witnessed".
Salaam
I am glad that you are asking these questions I was expecting the same from Ayman, but he did not address this.
Just as a blind person is well aware of days months and years and time and are capable of performing most demanding task like Mr Blunket (ex home minister of Uk.) They witness all events by more gifted senses then the seeing posses. Just because Ayman wants to impose his theory he is excluding the blind.. I have given you my reason which I paste again,
This is what you said earlier
As is apparent from the above referenced verses, the skin will bear witness on the Last Day and not this life. The issue of fasting is in the here and now, and not in the hereafter. My question is that how can ears and skin witness a "shahr" ? Does an angel blow a trumpet during "shahr" or does the temperature suddenly jump many degrees ?What is wrong with my this reply as the blind will be answerable to GOd ? s we learn from verses 4120, 21, 22, it is confirmed that the skin is capable of witnessing and will testify.
One can witness a month simply by being present in that month, as the skin is in touch with the atoms/molecules , water vapor mixture of gases, temperature etc., present at such a time. In this world one?s finger prints and DNA can also testify against a person, but just imagine a blind one saying to God, on the Day of Judgement, ?I did not witness the month of Ramadan?. His skin will then speak out against himHowever, if you agree with Aymans theroy of excluding the blind, then please give me one valid reason why a person without sight should be excluded ? ???
You say that
The war alluded to in 981 could have still been during heat if it was in June, just before "shahru ramadhan".
You say that
Is that a fact ?
I asked bilal something and I will ask you the same. "HAATOO BURHAANAKUM", bring forth your proof if you are truthful!
- Please prove that ALL historical wars ALWAYS lasted more than a month and back it up with undisputable evidence. Some wars in history have been decisively fought and won within a few days. Conversely, ALL wars do not ALWAYS end in 8 months; some can last years.
The following gives a list of important short wars
http//listverse.com/politics/top-10-shortest-wars/
Any of those could have been started in May and would have ended before July, and still be "during the heat" if fought in a desert in the Northern Hemisphere
- Please prove from The Quran that the war mentioned in 981 lasted more than a month
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I paste here 981 for you again Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind God's messenger, and they disliked striving with their wealth and lives in the cause of God; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is far hotter," if they could only understand.
What do you understand from "Do not mobilize in the heat."
Does that mean war is ending or due to start? Seeing that there were no tanks or aeroplanes and other advanced equipment; would the prophet mobilize for a quick war before the sacred months; if so well we are doomed then.
But if you think that it could be possible that the prophet would prepare and start a war in May and end in July and start fasting by August with an exhusted army then, by all means, its your understanding but you have no proof of this from the Qur'an.So according to your logic, the believers should never start a war thinking "what if it lasts long enough to encroach on the following restricted shahoor".
Absolutely! This is called pre-planning and, even in this day and age when wars are quick, its planned way before take for example Desert Storm and the ongoing war in Iraq, although it was criticised for lack of foresight.
I hope I have answered your questions. if I left any, please do ask again as I sometime tend to overlook.
peace
PS I hope you are aware that the Americans carefully planned two gulf wars so that the month of Hajj would have passed, as that is when they receive their revenues from the Saudi tourist business. -X -
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Truthseeker,
In the case of the eyes that just may be so, whether the eyes turn red when they burn is a very, very, very minor point. Nothing in this world is 100 percent (atleast rarely), but again THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Rubbing of the thighs is another example, and the MAIN meaning is the sensation of significant heat. That is the root meaning of the word, ask Ayman to give you the root definition of the word so you are not confused. And for the root of the word to be 'to be signficantly hot/to feel signficant heat' and then to imply ath redness is apart of the meaning because there are two references to the burning sensation of bodily parts that when irritated, rubbed or inflamed MAY have redness acompanying that burning sensation is conjecture and falsehood beyond measure. Again look up the definition that those dictionaries give and then YOU be honet with yourself and ask if the word means to turn reddish or just has to do with being or feeling significantly hot.
As it concerns the shahr being 30 days in the context of the Quran, how about I put it to you like this
IN EVERY CONTEXT OF THE QURAN WHERE A FAST CANNOT BE DONE IT IS SUBSTITUTED WITH FEEDING A PERSON PER DAILY FAST MISSED. THE QURANIC EQUATION IS IF FASTING IS TOO DIFICULT FOR YOU, YOU FEED A PERSON PER DAY OF FASTING MISSED.
So if the Quran is saying that I can substitue 2 months of fasting by feeding 60 people, the conclusion is crystal clear and there is no amount of clouding that you can do that will make this unclear. It is a very simple and clear deduction. I'm sorry you are missing it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Ayman,
The dictionary doesn't say that "strawberries with the logical and normal connotation that these strawberries, and everything else that has strawberries involved, is red". Yet somehow, English-speaking people know that when people mention "strawberry moon" they talk about the moon around the summer solstice because that is when strawberries are harvested and because it is RED. Similarly, ancient Arabs undoubtedly knew that when people mention "scorching full-moon" they talk about the full-moon after the summer solstice because that is when the weather is hot and it is RED.
Now I am not too familiar with strawberry harvesting so I didn't know about the strawberry moon, and I'm a native, American English speaker. But you are speaking of a tradition that has been recorded. I'm sure you looked it up and it is easy to reference in some farmer's almanac. We can all get a source for this. But where is your source that the ancient Arabs referred to the solstice moon in this way? Or is this your conjecture that you are trying to impose on the Arabs of the past without any proof besides trying to imaginatively attatch redness to the meaning of ramada because redness usually accompanies the burning in somene's eyes (reffered to using ramada) or the burning after rubbing one's thighs together (also referred to using the verb ramada) when burning is the real meaning?
Godbless,
Anwar -
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One cannot provide without having (knowledge, etc???..).
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We witness a ?month? by having knowledge of it (i.e. the month of fasting).
Not always using physical senses thus even the blind can witness.
318 God witnessed that He, L? il?ha illa Huwa (there is no God except He), and the angels and those of the knowledge (also give witness)...
Peace,
This is not the same concept at all. In this declaration, The God is BEARING WITNESS to a concept or idea. That's why the this testimony would read
I bear witness THAT there is no god but the god.
We obviously can't visually see The God, so we can't witness Him, but we can witness His creation and His glory and supremacy, and this is what be acknowledge. Similarly, we can't physically "witness"/see a month. In most cases, you can't even "bear witness" to a month without the use of a man-made calendar... That's why the ancient Arabs "witnessed" their months based on the sighting of the moon... If this scripture simply meant those who are "present" during the month, you have to ask "PRESENT WHERE?" It wouldn't make sense to view it as all living people, since this would clearly apply to everyone, and that would make the concept of witnessing "shahru ramadhan" completely redundant...
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace,
This is not the same concept at all. In this declaration, The God is BEARING WITNESS to a concept or idea. That's why the this testimony would read
I bear witness THAT there is no god but the god.
We obviously can't visually see The God, so we can't witness Him, but we can witness His creation and His glory and supremacy, and this is what be acknowledge. Similarly, we can't physically "witness"/see a month. In most cases, you can't even "bear witness" to a month without the use of a man-made calendar... If this scripture simply meant those who are "present" during the month, you have to ask "PRESENT WHERE?" It wouldn't make sense to view it as all living people, since this would clearly apply to everyone, and that would make the concept of witnessing "shahru ramadhan" completely redundant...
Peace,
Ahmad
Salaam.
Really!! I do remember ex UK Home Minister David Blunket using his finger to do the reading which must have included finding out day and date of the documents and that is how he was running UK home affairs beside using his ears and his mouth of course. By the way he is only one example of many talented high profile blind persons.
That's why the ancient Arabs "witnessed" their months based on the sighting of the moon...
Proof? And those who did not sight the moon were excluded from giving witness involving the month/date ???
peace