What is deen according to your understanding? Can we implement deen?
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From my studies so far, the root essentially means "that which is due".
It is commonly understood to mean "religion" but that's not accurate.
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/deen.htmFrom http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
= Dal-Ya-Nun = obedience/submissiveness, servility, religion, high/elevated/noble/glorious rank/condition/state, took/receive a loan or borrowed upon credit, become indebted, in debt, under the obligation of a debt, contract a debt, repay/reimburse a loan, rule/govern/manage it, possess/own it, become habituated/accustomed to something, confirmation, death (because it is a debt everyone must pay), a particular law/statute, system, custom/habit/business, a way/course/manner of conduct/acting, repayment/compensation.
dana vb. (I)
impf. act. 929
pcple. pass. 3753, 5686dayn n.m. 2282, 411, 412, 412, 412
din n.m. 14, 2132, 2193, 2217, 2217, 2256, 319, 324, 373, 383, 385, 446, 4125, 4146, 4171, 53, 53, 53, 554, 557, 577, 670, 6137, 6159, 6161, 729, 751, 839, 849, 872, 911, 912, 929, 933, 933, 936, 9122, 1022, 10104, 10105, 1240, 1276, 1535, 1652, 2278, 242, 2425, 2455, 2682, 2965, 3030, 3030, 3032, 3043, 3132, 335, 3720, 3878, 392, 393, 3911, 3914, 4014, 4026, 4065, 4213, 4213, 4221, 4828, 4828, 4916, 516, 5112, 5656, 608, 609, 619, 619, 7026, 7446, 829, 8215, 8217, 8218, 8311, 957, 985, 985, 1071, 1096, 1096, 1102,
tadayana vb. (VI) perf. act. 2282
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 3, pages 108, 109, 110, 111, 112
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Dear Wakas,
Sorry for the wrong heading in the second part. "Can we implement deen on others" was the actual question. Thanks for the detailed link but my question was about your understanding. I need everyone's opinion on what they think deen is and can we implement/force it on others.
My question is that please tell me what do you think deen is and not the explanation or meanings. Specially i need you to translate for me 2256 and 319
Regards.
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salam khalaletanzim. my studies show that the origin of the term DYN is D Daal the door, Y Ye the hook or peg, and N Nun the germinating seed. When i put these three concepts together i come up with DYN as being the door through which our souls are anchored and grow.
allah is the teacher.
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Dear Al Araf,
where do you get this d=dall=door theory. please explain it is some kind of hunch or real meaning of words?
According to my research
financial obligation , liability , debit , debt
, ,
credo , conviction , faith , tenet , rite , creed , religionconformism , God-fearingness , obedience , conformance , conformity , religiosity , devoutness , godliness , pious deed , fealty
( )
loan , lend , advance,
pious , devout , God-fearing , godlyArabic - English
religious
I hope you will explain or show me as i have done. what about answer to the second part?
Regards.
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salam khyaletanzim. the arabic language, and the letters of the arabic language have roots tens of thousand of years deep in the past. if you study ancient hebrew, ancient aramaic, phoenician, you will learn how the letters of the arabic language came into being.
allah made his quran for all time, for the past, for the present, and for the future. all mankind will be judged by the quran. the quran can be understood by those who cannot read or write, it can be recited by those who cannot read or write. the quran can be written and understood by everyone.
the letter D or Dal represents the curtain that is hung in a bedouin tent, a door between the part of the tent that is public, and the part of the tent that is private. the part of the tent that is seen, and the part of the tent that is unseen. all letters of the arabic alphabet have these representations from which they are derived.
allah is knowledge.
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I wasn't aware there were many surviving texts of ancient phonecian about! Could you direct me to where transcripts can be found?
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salam liquiddharma. phoenicia is the old name for lebanon. ancient phoenicia had colonies in the mediterranean, the most famous of which is carthage, now in tunisia, home of hannibal, the general who fought rome.
google searches on phoenician, carthage, lebanon, will bring up plenty of sites. here are some examples
http//users.tpg.com.au/etr/etrusk/po/pyrgi.html
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http//phoenicia.org/alphabet.htmlAllah is the truth.
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Salaaman khyaletanzim,
Deen according to my understanding is the "Way of God" and we cannot implement Deen
As per my understanding "Deen" means "System / Nizam(Urdu)".
I think it is like a computer program. Where all the icons are on desktop screen that shows clearly if you click this icon, you will take a step ahead Jahannam / Hell. Or else if you click on this icon, you will be lead a step towards Jannah / Paradise. The coding behind this program will never make mistake, they have been assigned everything. Now computer & program has been given to you. And mouse is in your hands, you got a free will to understand every icon before clicking it. All the explainations has been given in details.
If anyone clicks on the icon "Anti-Virus / Tauba", his viruses will be cleaned.
If anyone clicks on the icon "Format Hard Disk", he will lose all his data or works done (habitat aamaal).
If anyone clicks on the icon "Designing & Decoration", he will get all the things in this world.Then, in the Day of Judgement, this program will be kept forward in front of each individual and they will be asked for what they have clicked the icons, that had already been recorded. No body can deny that as they can see with their own eyes what they have done.
"Maaliki yauwmid DEEN"
The program that we have given is fully automated and formulated. These formulas never calculate wrong. This is what I understand the meaning of DEEN. Allah knows best.
May Allah increase our knowledge on what we don't have knowledge and guide us all towards the correct path.
Regards,
mmKhan -
@ mmkhan
If it is system then kindly tell me what do you understand when this word is used. If you consider it as a computer program then it means that one cannot force or implement it on others. But the problem with this example is that according to you it is automated but if the person using it does no know how to use it then what will happen? Is this his fault that he does not know how to use the program or what?
please clarify if I misunderstood.
@ Al araf
DYN as being the door through which our souls are anchored and grow.
if it is the door to grow then why it is said that it cannot be forced on others? Can you explain the meaning of the Arabic word millat accordingly.
Regards.
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Salaaman Khyaletanzim,
If it is system then kindly tell me what do you understand when this word is used. If you consider it as a computer program then it means that one cannot force or implement it on others. But the problem with this example is that according to you it is automated but if the person using it does no know how to use it then what will happen? Is this his fault that he does not know how to use the program or what?
please clarify if I misunderstood.
Brother, you have not read what I wrote carefully. I have already given answer for your questions
"Now computer & program has been given to you. And mouse is in your hands, you got a free will to understand every icon before clicking it. All the explainations has been given in details."
I hope you got the answer inshaAllah.
And you asked "If you consider it as a computer program then it means that one cannot force or implement it on others." Yes, no one can force it on others. Every individual got a free will to do what he wants. Help is given in detail.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Posted by mmkhan Posted on September 22, 2008, 102952 PM
Brother, you have not read what I wrote carefully. I have already given answer for your questions
"Now computer & program has been given to you. And mouse is in your hands, you got a free will to understand every icon before clicking it. All the explainations has been given in details."
Dear i still cannot understand, may be due to lack of knowledge. please explain what do you mean by computer, program and mouse and how come i have free will to understand? according to my understanding i do have a free will to choose but no free will to understand. Please do quote the verse from quran where it is mentioned so.
Regards.
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Deen according to my understanding is the "Way of God" and we cannot implement Deen
I agree with your typo brother, to me deen means faith and it is not something human beings are capable of achieving 100%. It's not a political agenda or ideology. It is forbidden to try and force it on others against their will, it is also impossible to do so. It is something quite separate from conformity to scriptural dogma.
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Deen means debt.
Are we indebted to someone for anything? Do we feel indebted to our community for taking care of us when we were weak and young? Do we have to payback for the air, water, food, sunlight, social support? that we enjoy daily without counting?Are all these favors for free?
Surely, they are not. Nothing is for free in this creation. We have to strive for everything.
So, if we are in debt, we should payback our debt, but how? to whom? And what to give back?
Religions seem to provide answers to these fundamental questions, mostly to abuse its followers by taking a share of their money and using them to corrupt the land and abuse others. They make them feel deeply indebted, and play on their emotions in order to control their actions.
What does anyone of us owe to the others globally? What do we really owe our environment?
I think (or I have been inspired) that the least or minimum that I owe the world is that I would be inclined to the peace, not degrading my environment nor hurting others without justice. The straight path described in 6151-153 is giving more details about our approach towards the outside world, in order to be in phase with its rhythm, thus suffering less and enjoying better lives.
Everyone can see that there is nothing religious about these commands in the straight path, maybe the first command but it simply says to not mistake the god to be any THING (in the literal meaning of a ?thing?).
If one looks globally, one finds two sorts of people whatever their race, sex or religion might be. Those inclined to the peace (muslim) and those inclined to discord (kafir).--
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Salaaman Khyaletanzim,
Dear i still cannot understand, may be due to lack of knowledge. please explain what do you mean by computer, program and mouse and how come i have free will to understand? according to my understanding i do have a free will to choose but no free will to understand. Please do quote the verse from quran where it is mentioned so.
I am sorry brother... In other words, Deen = System, Program, Laws, Dos and Don't, etc...
Like If you do this, this will happen / you will be rewarded OR if you don't do this, you will be punished. Every Dos and Don't has been mentioned. That is Deen as per my understanding.
For example If you give in the way of Allah, it is like 700 times you get in return. And if you don't spend in the way of Allah, you have taken a step towards Jahannam.
Or If you do good, in return you will get 10 times of what you have done and if you do bad, in return you will get the same.
Hope it may help inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaaman Khyaletanzim,
I am sorry brother... In other words, Deen = System, Program, Laws, Dos and Don't, etc...
Like If you do this, this will happen / you will be rewarded OR if you don't do this, you will be punished. Every Dos and Don't has been mentioned. That is Deen as per my understanding.
For example If you give in the way of Allah, it is like 700 times you get in return. And if you don't spend in the way of Allah, you have taken a step towards Jahannam.
Or If you do good, in return you will get 10 times of what you have done and if you do bad, in return you will get the same.
Hope it may help inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Regards,
mmKhanSalaam
Of courese we can implement deen see few examples for the smooth running in the UK
Park your car on a single yellow line you are allowed time to move but if it is double yellow line than penalty charge and if it on red line towed away.
When you borrow goods from the supermarket you are to pay for the goods or face charges for shoplifting.
When you make an agreement you honour it or face court for the breach of contract charge.
Rigth to enjoy freedom of speech and civil liberties unless
Nnuisance for your neighbour or your environment charges under Your Rights Under Noise & Statutory Nuisance Act 1993Drink and enjoy life but if you drive - face prohibition from driving depending on charge.punishment.
To maintain order
Bodily harm- assault, kill ?murder - steal- theft criminal offence, for t so on and onLaw of compensation. Trust law, inheritance law, .. etc etc etc.
For programming and conditioning
Good schools and universities for education
Recreation centres
Libraries
etc etc etc
so for implementing the deen we need rules and regulations, penalties and punishments, compensations, programming and conditionings with due regard for personal well being and safe and pleasent environment for the citizens.
Not to forget good citizenship awards and honours.
peace -
Your example was about laws that is "sharia" according to my understanding of Quran. Can you tell me If deen is what you say deen is then why God himself telling us that it cannot be forced?
To me it is same if it is system or way of God. I wanted elaboration on computer & program, mouse in my hand and free will what is what according your post Posted on September 20, 2008, 092214 PM. What about the next part of the question.
Thanks for agreeing. It is a pleasure to know that you are sure of deen at least.
@ someone
if deen is debt then does it mean that debt cannot be taken forcibly?
Regards.
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Your example was about laws that is "sharia" according to my understanding of Quran. Can you tell me If deen is what you say deen is then why God himself telling us that it cannot be forced?
Salaam
I took meaning from Wakas post (see below) and showed when deen means system and a similar system can be implemented that dose not mean everyone follows rules and regulations however if you look closely "deen Islam " it has got all what we need in modern system and it can be implemented.
= Dal-Ya-Nun = obedience/submissiveness, servility, religion, high/elevated/noble/glorious rank/condition/state, took/receive a loan or borrowed upon credit, become indebted, in debt, under the obligation of a debt, contract a debt, repay/reimburse a loan, rule/govern/manage it, possess/own it, become habituated/accustomed to something, confirmation, death (because it is a debt everyone must pay), a particular law/statute, system, custom/habit/business, a way/course/manner of conduct/acting, repayment/compensation.
peace
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Salaaman brother Khyaletanzin
To me it is same if it is system or way of God. I wanted elaboration on computer & program, mouse in my hand and free will what is what according your post Posted on September 20, 2008, 092214 PM. What about the next part of the question.
I don't say it is same as "Way of Allah". Deen are the rules or the correct word might be FORMULAS made by Allah. Like if you add 2 + 2 = The answer will be surely 4. We cannot change this formula because it has been made by Allah. So, the answer has to be 4. Entering the number is in your hands like I said a mouse of a computer But the calculation is based on the formulas made by Allah. And if anyone comes up with their own formulas or any other to please Allah or for whatever reasons, it will NOT gonna accept by Allah as in 385. That means formulas are already fixed and completed , which cannot be changed or modified.
I hope you understand what I meant. If it is not yet clear for you what I mean, please tell me about your knowledge of computers. If you got a good knowledge of computer, I will try to explain the computer example in other words, inshaAllah.
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As I said, deen is a system made by Allah and it has already been implemented by Allah. But for us, we have to understand it and do our deeds as per the program made in order to get success. Like for example Performing is Salaat al Juma is indeed a good deed. But can we perform it daily, because it is a good deed? No. It has been fixed on the day of Juma. This is a program, we cannot modify it.
We can show others this program and and the functions of this program to make them understand in order to use it correctly. But we cannot force them to follow it in the same way because everyone has given a free-will to follow the straight path or to take diversions.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Regards,
mmKhan
