Sihr, Illusion vs psychokinesis realism
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Salam,
Here is a psychokinesis practitioner in action
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhDEx3nuNM&feature=plcp
I have experienced it first hand.I am interested in how the Quran view on psychokinesis.
Currently I hold the view that what Moses has done was a psychokinesis aya/verse/sign.
While what the illusionists of pharaoh had done was eyes/mind deception.Would love to hear from the other free-minders..
Salam
Johan -
Salam,
Here is a psychokinesis practitioner in action
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLhDEx3nuNM&feature=plcp
I have experienced it first hand.I am interested in how the Quran view on psychokinesis.
Currently I hold the view that what Moses has done was a psychokinesis aya/verse/sign.
While what the illusionists of pharaoh had done was eyes/mind deception.Would love to hear from the other free-minders..
Salam
JohanShalom Aleikhem Johan,
How are you ?
It does not look like anything psychic. I mean, the fact that you have to balance the thing in such a sensitive way makes me wonder.
-It could be a combination of thermodynamics and aerodynamics.
-static electricity
-vibrating support
-dishonest performerPeace
------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem Johan,
How are you ?
It does not look like anything psychic. I mean, the fact that you have to balance the thing in such a sensitive way makes me wonder.
-It could be a combination of thermodynamics and aerodynamics.
-static electricity
-vibrating support
-dishonest performerPeace
------------- Student of AllahSalam Student of Allah,
whats the problem of balancing things in such a way? I don't understand..?
btw..I am still working on a way to clear away those other factors..
I thought I will use a container next time to minimalise the possibilities of the other factors..
But it will take a lot of concentration i'm sure..just need a lot of practice..Salam
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Salam Student of Allah,
whats the problem of balancing things in such a way? I don't understand..?
btw..I am still working on a way to clear away those other factors..
I thought I will use a container next time to minimalise the possibilities of the other factors..
But it will take a lot of concentration i'm sure..just need a lot of practice.. DSalam
Shalom Aleikhem,
Well, if you balance something so sensitively, you will not need large forces to make it move. Imagine a house balanced on top of a godly strong needle. Would it take much to push it off balance ? No.
In case of the PSI WHEEL that we are discussing, normal air current in the room can do the job. Trust me, air molecules are in constant motion.
Let me explain out the method by which this works
You hands are warmer than the air in your room. Below is a infrared camera image from www.infraredcamerasinc.com.
http//www.infraredcamerasinc.com/Medical-Imaging-Photo-Gallery/multiple-sclerosis-thermography/thermal-imaging-disease-medical.jpg
Now consider what happens when you bring your hands near this sensitive PSI WHEEL
http//i45.tinypic.com/3477n1g.jpg
The red arrow represents the air heated by your hand. It rises up (convection) as it is lighter. This rising of the hot air creates a gap for the cold air (represented by blue arrows) to rush into. So, you have set up a circulation of air in that zone. It is very small forces, but sufficient to move something which is balanced SO SENSITIVELY. Here is a diagram for the circulation
http//www.teachengineering.org/collection/cub_/lessons/cub_images/cub_air_lesson04_activity4_fig1.jpg
Now, to prove it to yourself, that it is indeed thermodynamics+aerodynamics that is powering your wheel instead of psychokinesis, do this
http//i46.tinypic.com/zlvjgh.png
Surround your wheel with mugs as shown in the picture. Get hot water, pour them in the mugs. And witness your wheel going all mental, not only psycho !! lol.... it will spin like a powered object.
Now, to eliminate the chances of CONVECTION leading to circulation leading to moving your wheel, you need to put your set up inside a sealed jar. Make sure that there is NO AIR inside the jar, it should be a vacuum. That will help you eliminate aerodynamic issues. Oh, and be careful of static electricity too.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Great..
I'll tray to train myself an aired container first then i'll try the vacuum...
i'm going to aim for a couple of month training..we'll keep posting inshaallah..
wish me luck..Salam,
JohanShalom Aleikhem,
You will waste couple of months on this ????????????? My friend, these things are either done by frauds or people who misunderstood the science behind the scene and thinks of it as "psychokinesis". If these people were honest, they would claim this year's Noble prize for physics instead of only claiming it on internet and locally.
But if you are talking about simply verifying things, go ahead. Make videos if you can, and share with us. I can share more such physics stuff with you which people sell to each other in the name of telekinesis. )
Peace
---------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
You will waste couple of months on this ????????????? My friend, these things are either done by frauds or people who misunderstood the science behind the scene and thinks of it as "psychokinesis". If these people were honest, they would claim this year's Noble prize for physics instead of only claiming it on internet and locally.
But if you are talking about simply verifying things, go ahead. Make videos if you can, and share with us. I can share more such physics stuff with you which people sell to each other in the name of telekinesis. )
Peace
---------------- Student of AllahSalam Student of Allah,
Thanks for the effort and reference you've given.
Though I could do without using my hand except for a brief time to move the balanced paper in a calm place such as an enclosed room.
IMHO, the hand is only used to synchronize(capture) the frequency of the mind to that of the object, it's like an antenna. To me right now maintaining the connection/communication channel is the hardest part.I will not only try to conduct investigations but also some experiment inshaAllah through the usage of electronic devices, currently there are a lot of so called 'pseudo sciences' that i think has some merit in understanding the phenomenons.
I believe that there is more to the understandings of the Jin/Malak(the hidden ones such as that of the roo7ul quds of the prophet 3eesa AS) than what is the current traditional/established understandings.
I believe that whatever Allah SWT refers to as aya in the Quran are things that are verifiable by experiment. And that whatever things
that exist in this world it's fundamental principles behind it's workings has been understood by Adam AS.I'll post the results of the investigation as I go, it'll definitely be a long process. )
But at least we start from somewhere..Salam,
Johan -
Salam Student of Allah,
Thanks for the effort and reference you've given.
Though I could do without using my hand except for a brief time to move the balanced paper in a calm place such as an enclosed room.
IMHO, the hand is only used to synchronize(capture) the frequency of the mind to that of the object, it's like an antenna. To me right now maintaining the connection/communication channel is the hardest part.I will not only try to conduct investigations but also some experiment inshaAllah through the usage of electronic devices, currently there are a lot of so called 'pseudo sciences' that i think has some merit in understanding the phenomenons.
I believe that there is more to the understandings of the Jin/Malak(the hidden ones such as that of the roo7ul quds of the prophet 3eesa AS) than what is the current traditional/established understandings.
I believe that whatever Allah SWT refers to as aya in the Quran are things that are verifiable by experiment. And that whatever things
that exist in this world it's fundamental principles behind it's workings has been understood by Adam AS.I'll post the results of the investigation as I go, it'll definitely be a long process.
But at least we start from somewhere..Salam,
JohanShalom Aleikhem,
I do realize that you are seeking truth, not fraud or delusion.
Therefore, do your experiments. Present them here nicely. I can be like a science-partner P I will try my best to disprove your hypothesis. That way, we will know if we have a case or not. Because something that fails on trial is most likely non-real. So, take your time and do the experiments. I will be waiting for the results.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
I do realize that you are seeking truth, not fraud or delusion. )
Therefore, do your experiments. Present them here nicely. I can be like a science-partner I will try my best to disprove your hypothesis. That way, we will know if we have a case or not. Because something that fails on trial is most likely non-real. So, take your time and do the experiments. I will be waiting for the results.
Peace
----------- Student of AllahSalam Student of Allah,
I am currently indulging myself on some paper research on pk.. and will try to materialize into tangible experiments..
just to post some of my findings that i'm going to explore in this couple of months..http//www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_01_2_schmidt.pdf
http//amasci.com/freenrg/grav3.htmlwish me luck )
Peace,
Johan -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Salam Student of Allah,
I am currently indulging myself on some paper research on pk.. and will try to materialize into tangible experiments..
just to post some of my findings that i'm going to explore in this couple of months..http//www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_01_2_schmidt.pdf
http//amasci.com/freenrg/grav3.htmlwish me luck
Peace,
JohanIsn't this journal outside science ? I have not looked into the second link. As far as I have investigated, this is a paranormal journal..lol UFO, dowsing, psychokinesis, or an X-Files episode..lol.. you name it !!
Anyways, ofcourse I wish you the best of luck with all your endeavors. I just have a question, would you mind sharing your background ? I mean academic and experiences ? I will understand if you do not want to share.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Isn't this journal outside science ? I have not looked into the second link. As far as I have investigated, this is a paranormal journal..lol UFO, dowsing, psychokinesis, or an X-Files episode..lol.. you name it !!
Anyways, ofcourse I wish you the best of luck with all your endeavors. I just have a question, would you mind sharing your background ? I mean academic and experiences ? I will understand if you do not want to share.
Peace
------------- Student of AllahSalam Student of Allah,
academically, i'm a computer geek 8-) but without the glasses
yourself?
well conventional science wouldn't dare to venture into paranormal..
i'd bet politics more than anything..
but at least it's peer reviewed, no?anyways, in terms of the contents do you have any critics on it?
Salam,
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Shalom Aleikhem,
academically, i'm a computer geek 8-) but without the glasses P
yourself?RESPECT !! I love computer geeks, and I so wanted to be one, but had to restrain myself as it took away my life from me. You try to achieve something for hours and hours and realize that you have killed so much time and get yourself in possible trouble. I hope you know what I am talking about. I do love to bend the rules if I can not break them.
My academic background would be scientific P I am into all things science. (Ofcourse not each and every discipline but do enjoy science alot). Ohh... and I love music alot.
well conventional science wouldn't dare to venture into paranormal..
i'd bet politics more than anything..I would bet its because SCIENCE = WORKS D
When your hypothesis fails under trial and you are the only one that can reproduce the experiment successfully when the rest of us are not looking, its not scientific.
but at least it's peer reviewed, no? D
Ya, as much as the sunni sheikhs/imams peer review each other and make a name for themselves.
You see my friend, science is not about faith/belief. ( I do know that you know that P, just saying it because I got this chance to lecture someone P ). There is a very good reason these papers can not make it to proper scientific journals and have to come up with their very own journal just to publish it. After all, why would a proper scientific journal publish a paper on "dowsing" in the same journal that published/publishes science that cured diseases, discovered genetics, genome, evolution, nuclear fusion, Hubble telescope, Mars rover, black holes, big bang and all other triumphs of humanity ?
anyways, in terms of the contents do you have any critics on it?
Nothing detailed, but for the time being, here is a quote about the journal(JSE) you are using
"The JSE, while presented as neutral and objective, appears to hold a hidden agenda. They seem to be interested in promoting fringe topics as real mysteries and they tend to ignore most evidence to the contrary. They publish 'scholarly' articles promoting the reality of dowsing, neo-astrology, ESP, and psychokinesis. Most of the prominent and active members are strong believers in the reality of such phenomena."
Peace be with you
----------------------- Student of Allah
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Shalom Aleikhem,
RESPECT !! I love computer geeks, and I so wanted to be one, but had to restrain myself as it took away my life from me. You try to achieve something for hours and hours and realize that you have killed so much time and get yourself in possible trouble. I hope you know what I am talking about. I do love to bend the rules if I can not break them.
RESPECT to you too bro )
are you implying the world of hackers?
well if that's what you're implying than it's good to stay away from that..
but it's also handy to know the arts.. >D voodooMy academic background would be scientific I am into all things science. (Ofcourse not each and every discipline but do enjoy science alot). Ohh... and I love music alot.
no wonder you sound so professor like, you better help me with the science part cuz i find it daunting..but interesting..paradox ;D
i like music also, good for the soulI would bet its because SCIENCE = WORKS D
it does hasn't it, i mean all this wonderful technologies that we have around us..mashaallah.. )
When your hypothesis fails under trial and you are the only one that can reproduce the experiment successfully when the rest of us are not looking, its not scientific.
since the double slit problem accounts for the observer
so the observer does have an impact on the experiments..
i suppose that's why it's called fringe science ;D
but what do i know about physics, just sayin it..
i'm all ears though in fringe and conventional things..
as long as it holds beneficial outcomes to humanityYa, as much as the sunni sheikhs/imams peer review each other and make a name for themselves. )
Ahh..but those imams don't have a simulation environment to experiment with to prove their theory..
if they do it would take more then their life span to achieve their experimental results..
unlike the (pseudo?)scientific researchers..You see my friend, science is not about faith/belief. ( I do know that you know that , just saying it because I got this chance to lecture someone ). There is a very good reason these papers can not make it to proper scientific journals and have to come up with their very own journal just to publish it.
Ahh.. but you've forgotten about the money that fuels the research, where does that come from?
politics sometimes sucks in..After all, why would a proper scientific journal publish a paper on "dowsing" in the same journal that published/publishes science that cured diseases, discovered genetics, genome, evolution, nuclear fusion, Hubble telescope, Mars rover, black holes, big bang and all other triumphs of humanity ?
yup, i agree.. sometimes there are those outrageous calls..
but as many good info it's always shrouded with disinfos..Nothing detailed, but for the time being, here is a quote about the journal(JSE) you are using
"The JSE, while presented as neutral and objective, appears to hold a hidden agenda. They seem to be interested in promoting fringe topics as real mysteries and they tend to ignore most evidence to the contrary. They publish 'scholarly' articles promoting the reality of dowsing, neo-astrology, ESP, and psychokinesis. Most of the prominent and active members are strong believers in the reality of such phenomena."
but that's just his opinion, i bet his throwing out the baby with the bath water when he said that..
Peace be with you
----------------------- Student of Allah
Peace be with you too bro )
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Shalom Aleikhem,RESPECT to you too bro )
are you implying the world of hackers?
well if that's what you're implying than it's good to stay away from that..
but it's also handy to know the arts.. >D voodooBelieve me my friend, even if it takes months, the moment you crack the problem and achieve what you were trying to do....the feeling that you get parallels the feeling of a lottery winner.
no wonder you sound so professor like, you better help me with the science part cuz i find it daunting..but interesting..paradox ;D
i like music also, good for the soulWell, I am not Einstein, but surely, I will try my best inshallah.
since the double slit problem accounts for the observer
so the observer does have an impact on the experiments..
i suppose that's why it's called fringe science ;D
but what do i know about physics, just sayin it.. P
i'm all ears though in fringe and conventional things..
as long as it holds beneficial outcomes to humanity
Ahh..but those imams don't have a simulation environment to experiment with to prove their theory..
if they do it would take more then their life span to achieve their experimental results..
unlike the (pseudo?)scientific researchers..Your argument would hold credibility if your experiment was on tiny and quantum levels. Just as gravity matters for us significantly but for an ant its not a big deal....mmm. Ok, let me elaborate on that. You see, for us, gravitational forces are a significant part of life. But for tiny creatures like ants, "surface tension" is much much and more significant than gravity. In the world of ants, surface tension is "the gravity" ...lol. In a similar sense, when you use an analogy, make sure that you are not trespassing the realms of significance of the phenomenons. On the experiments that you are doing(pk, psi wheels), quantum phenomenons are irrelevant. That is why I believe the analogy you provided is misleading.
Ahh.. but you've forgotten about the money that fuels the research, where does that come from?
politics sometimes sucks in..Politics..Politics..Politics... we cant get outside the influence of that as long as we live in societies. (
but that's just his opinion, i bet his throwing out the baby with the bath water when he said that..
lol...yes, at the end of the day, its his opinion.
Peace be with you too bro )
You can learn things from mmkhan. If you don't know what I meant by that, let that remain a mystery.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Well, I am not Einstein, but surely, I will try my best inshallah.
Thank you, thank you )
Your argument would hold credibility if your experiment was on tiny and quantum levels. Just as gravity matters for us significantly but for an ant its not a big deal....mmm. Ok, let me elaborate on that. You see, for us, gravitational forces are a significant part of life. But for tiny creatures like ants, "surface tension" is much much and more significant than gravity. In the world of ants, surface tension is "the gravity" ...lol. In a similar sense, when you use an analogy, make sure that you are not trespassing the realms of significance of the phenomenons. On the experiments that you are doing(pk, psi wheels), quantum phenomenons are irrelevant. That is why I believe the analogy you provided is misleading.
well, I think I'll swallow this for the mean time..
don't have much to prove or disprove, but if you watched this clip
http//www.ted.com/talks/aaron_o_connell_making_sense_of_a_visible_quantum_object.html
the scientist even dared to imagine and go beyond the quantum level to the normal day to daythe ant stuff is funny though lol.. esp when they get stuck on water helplessly..
i feel sorry for them..You can learn things from mmkhan. If you don't know what I meant by that, let that remain a mystery.
Peace
------------- Student of AllahI'm hoping that he'd show up in this thread pr
He likes to use the prayer icon ;DPeace