Reading too much into scriptures
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I'd like to share a true story with you all to illustrate what I am talking about to put it into perspective
This weekend an old friend of mine from high school travelled two hours north to visit me. The main purpose of his visit was for us to talk about GOD (as we have both become intensely spiritual since high school) and I was looking forward to hearing about what brought his life to this and sharing the Qu'ran with him (as he had already expressed interest in it).
He believed Jesus was GOD which was something I don't know about (I never met the man) but was willing to accept that he believed that and not try to change his beliefs. However, my hopes of "sharing" beliefs and ideas pretty much vaporized when he told me he believed GOD was the sun, and spent the entire rest of the night trying to convince me so.
He got this from reading the Bible, where there is a lot of poetic and symbolic verse about the GOD ruling the heavens, from one end of the earth to the other, GOD is the light, GOD gives life to all things, GOD is the Sun of Rightousness, Bright Morning Star, etc. He believes staring directly into the sun is essential for our salvation. One verse that says when the Day of Judgement is close by the sun will be seven times brighter. He says that if we don't look at the sun every day and get our eyes accustomed to it's brightness that when the Day nears we won't be able to see GOD and "get our salvation". He convinced his two younger sisters and his best friend this is true as well, using, what he calls, "The original bible, the king james." I wasn't sure what to say to him. I just heard him out to get the whole story of why he believes this so that I would be better equipped to formulate a plan to get him to stop telling people to stare at the sun. But the point of this story is
It is possible to read too much into the scripture, to interpret it "too hard." We all agree that taking it seriously is good but I've found (I am often guilty of this myself) people can tend to worship the scripture/translation above GOD. When you take any translation (or even arabic qu'ran, with hafs/warsh etc variations, or preconcieved bias) it's easy to look at it as "the word of GOD" and search for "hidden messages" based on figures of speech or poetic symbolism, often in verses scattered all around the scripture. We take pride in our cleverness and how much GOD has had favor on us by giving us the "correct" interpretation and completely forget the fact that only GOD knows certain things (like who recieves salvation, etc.) We are only hurting ourselves with false doctrines (may GOD be patient with us and lead us to the truth) but in some circumstances we can also cause significant damage to others. I'm not a professional on reading the scriptures or anything, but I know that as humans we have really tiny minds compared to GOD. Some verses of scripture are clear commands/laws and some are not. Interpretation of the ones that are not (especially if we believe the law is pointless because we are atoned for) is like bulldozing on thin ice.
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I agree - it is easy to become lost in the scriptures and their interpretations on our search for any truth out there... and so can easily lose sight of what it is we are looking for like you friend searching for God and settling for the sun!
This can happen to anyone really.... its important to keep some sort of perspective and take a step back whenever necessary to stop and reflect before jumping to (illogical??) conclusions about things....
Its easy to fixate on a certain aspect because u figure if i can make sense of this then it will all work itself out and you end up getting yourself tangled up in randomness, so far from what u started out looking for! Ive done it loads and keep doing it - whenever I realise (discussions with other people are often a reality check) I take a step back from everything for a while.... -\
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I have never heard of this activity before, very odd!!! - "He believes staring directly into the sun is essential for our salvation. One verse that says when the Day of Judgement is close by the sun will be seven times brighter. He says that if we don't look at the sun every day and get our eyes accustomed to it's brightness that when the Day nears we won't be able to see GOD and "get our salvation"."
"especially if we believe the law is pointless because we are atoned for"- LOL, agree this is a big mistake!!
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people can tend to worship the scripture/translation above GOD
Salaam rsw,
The Quran is wonderful, and It's teachings are uncomparable. I do, however, agree with what you are saying in this small quote. Let's say a person does not focus so much on the Quran. Yet, this same person worships the one true God every day, gives to charity regularly, is honest, takes care of his/her parents, is sincere with his/her spouse, is kind to everyone, dresses modestly, etc. Ok, so he/she may not be reading the Quran at lightening speed (if at all), but does it mean this person isn't a righteous submitter to God? Absolutely not!
Praise God!
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salam rsw. actually, your friend is not too far from the practices of the pharaonic egyptians. the pharaonic egyptians were sun worshippers. ra was the sun god. amon ra means son of ra. amon ra was the name of the pharaoh. the pharaoh claimed to be the son of the sun god.
pharaonic practices demonstrate to me, how mankind can get to a certain point, however, mankind is helpless without allah. ancient egyptians believed that because the sun is responsible for the growth of living things, like plants, the sun must be the creator. pharaoh akhmoses and moses, stepbrothers, fought over this issue, whether the sun is god, or allah is god, this is an old dispute.
allah is indeed light. however no man can see allah and live. allah is the everliving god. allah does not die.
nur is not sunlight, nur is heavenly light that casts no shadows. moses was told, no man can see me and live, jesus cannot be god, because people saw him and lived. allah does not die, jesus, it is claimed died on the cross; if they claim god died on the cross, he cannot be god. how can this dead god do anything let alone resurrect anyone, their theology appears to have serious flaws.
allah's nur leaves nothing in doubt, nothing in the shadows. allah says jesus did not die on the cross, it was made to appear to them that he did.
i read an interesting alternate account of the crucifixion. this account is consistent with the record of the injeel and quran. this account theorizes, that when the roman soldier, put his spear into a sponge, then dipped it into the bucket of liquid, and lifted the sponge with his spear to the lips of jesus, to quench his thirst, the liquid in the bucket was a neurotoxin.
apparently, the puffer fish, which is found in the middle east, has neurotoxins, which can be extracted and put in solution. at certain concentrations, this neurotoxin slows the heart rate and lung action, to the point it could appear the person is dead. when the neurotoxin wears off in a few hours, the person can get up and leave. this account claims this is what happened with jesus. do i have any evidence this is true, no, it is a theory. however, it is a far more plausible theory, consistent with the recorded facts, and does not contradict the quran.
allah is the light.
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allah is indeed light.
God is God, Allah (The God) is Allah (The God)..
That's why He rejects symbolism of Him.That's also why the jews named Him "YHVH" which means "He Is Who He Is", possibly derived as 'response' to God's answer on Moses questions pertaining who He is.
"EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" meaning "I AM WHAT/THAT I AM". (Exodus 314)He is not light..
God gives and create light..
Light itself is a symbolism, more on this below..however no man can see allah and live.
moses was told, no man can see me and live,This is a non-quranic notions, borrowed from the "Old Testament", rabbinic dogma / human's thought that somehow get incorporated into book of Exodus and Deutoronomy. (possibly latter addition).
It is true that every man can see Allah/The God.
As it is also true that no man can see Allah/The God.
Purely dependent on how you define 'see-ing'.As a metaphor can you see "Energy", "Magnetic Field", "Dark-Matters", "Electron" ??
nur is not sunlight, nur is heavenly light that casts no shadows.
Nur and light is symbolism,
Something that brings clarity to a mystery..
Something that brings understanding to the previously unknown subject.
As light brings out vivid image of objects previously covered in darkness..jesus cannot be god, because people saw him and lived. allah does not die, jesus, it is claimed died on the cross; if they claim god died on the cross, he cannot be god. how can this dead god do anything let alone resurrect anyone, their theology appears to have serious flaws.
allah's nur leaves nothing in doubt, nothing in the shadows. allah says jesus did not die on the cross, it was made to appear to them that he did.I don't get it why christians persistently think Jesus = God and God = Jesus.
Jesus is Jesus and God is God...
Jesus is human being like us... specifically he was a Jew living in today's israel/palestine who lived and died about 2000 years ago..
And God is God...As it is also written in their own scriptures that God Is God (EHYEH ASHER EHYEH / I AM WHAT I AM).
That's why the jews named him YHVH (HE IS WHO HE IS).
And "Jesus" name is an 'english transliteration' from Greek's Iesous which is also a transliteration of Hebrew Iashua.
Iashua in Hebrew means YHVH/God saves or YHVH/God is salvation..Because Iashua name contains "YHVH" in it doesn't necessarily means Iashua = YHVH.
(Some Xtians came up with this strange argument during my discussion with them same time ago).
It is within Jewish custom at that time to named their child with "YHVH/God elements' in it.For example; Iashua a.k.a Jesus's cousins; John. (The Baptist)
John is an english transliteration from greek's Iohaness which is also a transliteration of Hebrew Iochanan.
Iochanan in Hebrew means YHVH/God's grace or YHVH/God is gracious.i read an interesting alternate account of the crucifixion. this account is consistent with the record of the injeel and quran. this account theorizes, that when the roman soldier, put his spear into a sponge, then dipped it into the bucket of liquid, and lifted the sponge with his spear to the lips of jesus, to quench his thirst, the liquid in the bucket was a neurotoxin.
apparently, the puffer fish, which is found in the middle east, has neurotoxins, which can be extracted and put in solution. at certain concentrations, this neurotoxin slows the heart rate and lung action, to the point it could appear the person is dead. when the neurotoxin wears off in a few hours, the person can get up and leave. this account claims this is what happened with jesus. do i have any evidence this is true, no, it is a theory. however, it is a far more plausible theory, consistent with the recorded facts, and does not contradict the quran.
I also read another interesting account on this,
apparently Joseph of Arimathea is the one behind the 'scheming' of this to save "Jesus"...
He is the one who prepare the scenario including the toxin, the treatment of Jesus body (His leg is not being brokened by the roman soldiers after the crucifixion) and preparation of 'tomb' to temporarily host Jesus body during his 'pseudo-death', which is within his own estate..Joseph of Arimathea is a member of the "Sanherdin" who apparently disagree with the rest of the team on Jesus.. and apparently one of Jesus's secret admirer..
An interesting question remains
Where did Jesus go after the crucifixion?
Where is his body??
Why "sudden disappearance" of both Jesus and his mother after the crucifixion??I really don't believe he is "flying to heaven".. (As written in the scripture)
As Jesus will certainly can't breathe in high altitude.. and/or he is well prepared with an astronaut suite..Salam / Peace
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salam jafar.
surah al nur 2435
the verse clearly states allah is the light of the heavens and the earth. allah nur alsamawat wa alard.
why do you make the claim that
God is God, Allah (The God) is Allah (The God).. He is not light.. That's why He rejects symbolism of Him.
you are apparently in conflict with the explicit words of the quran. do you have a rational explanation for this conflict?
allah knows all things.
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Peace be upon you RSW,
salam rsw. actually, your friend is not too far from the practices of the pharaonic egyptians. the pharaonic egyptians were sun worshippers.
While it is probably true that some did worship the sun, the correct spiritual practices of the ancient Kamitians(egyptians) had nothing at all to do with worshipping the sun. It is the same with many today worshipping Jesus, or Muhammad, or the number 19, etc. There are always people who do not understand the message.
ra was the sun god.
While I am sure this information is widely promoted, that is not true. The word for sun is "aten" which can be verified in the holy books of the Kamitians. Ra means "life force", or what the Chinese call "Chi", Hindus call "kundalini", etc.
amon ra means son of ra.
Amen Ra means "hidden life force" as "amen" is a Kamitic word meaning "hidden/concealed" to explain that God is unseen(ghayb).
Just as with all religions, the truth is there but needs to be dug out from under the piles of lies that the rejectors place upon it.
Just wanted to share that with you so that we dont continue the lies that hide God's message to mankind that was sent to us and those before us.
In sayin that, the christain who thinks God is the Sun is still not far off, because the Bible does deal with alot of astrology and these symbolisms do equate "Jesus" with the Sun....but it is only symbolism. God is creator of all that can be perceieved and not equal to it....but then again , Jesus is not God anyway.
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salam god within. i have travelled in egypt from alexandria to aswan, and from alexandria to the libyan border. while travelling in egypt i visited the pyramids, the sphinx, the valley of queens, the valley of kings, aswan, and abu simbel
you are completely mistaken about your claims that ancient egyptians did not worship the sun. ra was in fact the sun god. i would have appreciated, before you made your claims, that you had checked your claims with even a simple wikipedia search. if you had done so you would not have made the claims that you did.
the correct spiritual practices of the ancient Kamitians(egyptians) had nothing at all to do with worshipping the sun... While I am sure this information is widely promoted, that is not true.
"Ra (pronounced Rah) and sometimes as, R?, is an ancient Egyptian sun god. By the fifth dynasty he became a major deity in ancient Egyptian religion, identified primarily with the mid-day sun, with other deities representing other positions of the sun. Ra changed greatly over time and in one form or another, much later he was said to represent the sun at all times of the day." http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra
"Aten (or Aton) was the disk of the sun in ancient Egyptian mythology, and originally an aspect of Ra." http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten
you claims regarding kamitians, are very strange. at first glance this appears to be a cult belief. please provide an authoritative scholarly source for your claims. claims verified from actual egyptian hieroglyphic texts.
allah is the best knower.