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  1. Home
  2. Critical Examination of Islam
  3. What is the nature of God?
  4. New knowledge vs sufi concepts.

New knowledge vs sufi concepts.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved What is the nature of God?
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    Fadhli
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    Nice topic.....

    after the enlightenment from Quran. I starting to be interested in finding and understanding God and His creations. Then I started to learn to let go of those predefined concepts and definitions by humans and books. Instead i try to look from inside. Learning to trust my inner self. Learn the mind of God. Become independent from the outside influence and doctrine. That's what i belief what my heart told me. That is what my soul desires.

    What we should do or not do is for us to choose.... everyone has their own quest and purpose to achieve. You know what it is. You don't need others to define it for you. Yet you may not realize it that you are doing it now. ;D

    Just want to add perspective, if God encompasses everything, I believe it includes all. Not only to human. What i want to say is, instead of thinking the Creator thinks and have emotions like human. And focus only to us. It is not perfect. The perfectness of the creator has to become all. Have to understand all. Has to be independent from the constraint of it's creation. For example, if i were a creator, i have to understand all. And love everything that i create. If not that creation is separated and ceased to exist in the mind of me. Basically the God mind is incomprehensible with our mind. No matter how lengthy the definition is, it is still not complete. Because we are designed to be incomplete. Yet, we should strive to understand it for it is our Creator divine will. At first I believe we should return to Him, but now i also thinking of the possibility that God might want us to be independent, expand and become the creator ourselves or maybe His co creator, helping others to evolve and be aware of its existence in the image of Him. Whatever it is, we have the will to express it ourselves. We choose it. That is the most important.

    Peace

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      Al_Araf
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      salam johnny_k. there is a distinction between allah being close to you, and allah being everything and being everywhere.

      i have not seen any ayat that says, allah is everywhere, nor have i seen an ayat that says, allah is everything. if allah does not tell me that is the case, i am not going to accept the opinion of human beings which lack complete knowledge.

      allah knows the names of all things, he has not named the earth or heavens the same as himself, proof they are not him. apply that rule to any claim that allah is a particular thing, and you will get the same answer.

      allah is the one who knows.

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        alan
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        These descriptions of God boil down to a concept that He cant be known,in effect not much differant from the athiest,there is no God.
        Worshiping Allah is in reality no more than affirming life in its most positive aspects and being open to these triths as they become apparent to us through our own personal developement and life experience.Surely the lie will be destroyed and the truth will win out.This may be quiet differant to what the religious would like or want.

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          liquiddharma
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          Peace bro "Layth",

          JK- Then what do you make of this verse
          We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
          I think uve still got some remnants of sunni though which in this case even they have derived from the Bible that GOD is in the heaven. Also consider this verse

          GOD is the light of the heavens and the earth.

          I can see how this leads us to say God is everywhere - I don't think that has to imply God is everything. Saying God is within us does mean we are God. As per the idea of Schrodinger's Cat, different entities can occupy the same space at the same time without being the same thing.

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            Mr_Deen
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            Sufism just seems gayer and gayer to me.

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              alan
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              Sufism just seems gayer and gayer to me.

              What exactly do you mean by this expression?

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                L_Hu
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Sufism just seems gayer and gayer to me. If you knew about sufi freedom fighters in north africa you would not be talking. Many sufis have done violent things. For example a large revolt they did. Also in europe sufis have striked horror into peoples hearts in medival times. Also Shah Wali Ullah has unleased upon the world islamic extremism. Wahabism although fericly hating of sufisim would have been impossible without the sufi Wali Ullah's puratanical anti-innovatine and very violent somewhat extremist ideology. The Othaman Turks were sufis yet there name would be feared for centuries by europeans. The persian Safavids would become Shia but during the time they conquered and slaterd there way into Iran they were devout sufis. In genaral your statment is funny because sufism actully started because of the millatary way of life. There beleif God is everywhere made prayer permissiable every where without a mousqe. Very effective in the millatary way of life. Also early sufis were nowhere in the citys but always in milatary garrisons. Only later would sufism become a complex system of orders. It began as a result to growing arab imperlism and was principal centeryed around persian wandering actectics and nomadic turkish and persian soldiers and warriors.

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                  Mr_Deen
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Sufism to me, seems like a external religion, that simply takes statements of the Quran, like about the face of Allah, and leads people from Islam, to sufism instead. Tell me, whirling sufis, this seems like some erotic dance, with skirts whirling up, claiming "I am Allah", with talks about "Loving Allah"... And Rumi talks even more about alcohol, and hashish in his text. Tell me, what has this got to do with Islam? Worship of Allah?

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                    alan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Sufism to me, seems like a external religion, that simply takes statements of the Quran, like about the face of Allah, and leads people from Islam, to sufism instead. Tell me, whirling sufis, this seems like some erotic dance, with skirts whirling up, claiming "I am Allah", with talks about "Loving Allah"... And Rumi talks even more about alcohol, and hashish in his text. Tell me, what has this got to do with Islam? Worship of Allah?

                    This post,to my mind,is as offensive as your last post.I think you should consider your words,they betray an unpleasant streak,bigotted.

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                      Mr_Deen
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      I guess you are gay?

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                        alan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        I guess you are gay?

                        I guess you are an Islamic version of a Nazi?
                        No iam not gay.

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                          Bigmo
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          Sufism to me, seems like a external religion, that simply takes statements of the Quran, like about the face of Allah, and leads people from Islam, to sufism instead. Tell me, whirling sufis, this seems like some erotic dance, with skirts whirling up, claiming "I am Allah", with talks about "Loving Allah"... And Rumi talks even more about alcohol, and hashish in his text. Tell me, what has this got to do with Islam? Worship of Allah?

                          They believe the Koran is mysteries. They could be right. However Sufism as it exists today is the Al-Qhazali form of sufism which is Sunni philisophy.

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                            drfazl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            Peace,
                            God resides outside our universe

                            Which Ayah?

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                              FAR
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              salam johnny_k. there is a distinction between allah being close to you, and allah being everything and being everywhere.

                              i have not seen any ayat that says, allah is everywhere, nor have i seen an ayat that says, allah is everything. ...

                              Ah but I have seen a verse (quran 1124) that says the god is no-thing. Totally opposite of everything.

                              Oh and I'm sure there's a verse that say's the god has power over all things.

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                                liquiddharma
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                I guess you are an Islamic version of a Nazi?
                                No iam not gay.

                                http//image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2006/02/07/steve2.jpg

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                                  mujahingle
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  god is everything = pantheism
                                  god is the energy that does everything = monotheism

                                  it's the glue of all the universe.
                                  and it's the same for all the beings.


                                  i think understand what mrdeen means
                                  too much mysticism can make you idiot.
                                  i agree tawhid is like a heaven but it became an hell if you become too abstract.
                                  islam it's a system to manage the reality, not the fantasy.

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                                    FAR
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    http//image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2006/02/07/steve2.jpg

                                    He deserves it.

                                    http//www.skewsme.com/disney/mickey_mouse_l.jpg

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                                      liquiddharma
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      D P

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                                        Abrahamic_Unity
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        I have worked this out now. Please read about alef-tav -> http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598160.msg197965#msg197965

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                                          gazzali
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          Peace,

                                          Not sure what you mean, but God is not everything nor everywhere (though He sees and knows everything).

                                          God resides outside our universe and on J-day He will enter our universe along with the angels.

                                          peace

                                          any reference from quran

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