-=[ Salaat Al Wusta is Salaat al Juma ]=-
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Peace be upon you,
God is not an object, and that being the case, you cannot physically prostrate to It. If you physically prostrate then you are prostrating to the sun or moon.
In saying that , it is not wrong to physically prostrate as a means of ritual to help yourself be humble or whatever you are trying to do, but it is not commanded that we physically prostrate. The real prostration is of the WILL. God wants you to CHOOSE righteousness, that is the prostration spoken of in this message.
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Peace be upon you,
God is not an object, and that being the case, you cannot physically prostrate to It. If you physically prostrate then you are prostrating to the sun or moon.
In saying that , it is not wrong to physically prostrate as a means of ritual to help yourself be humble or whatever you are trying to do, but it is not commanded that we physically prostrate. The real prostration is of the WILL. God wants you to CHOOSE righteousness, that is the prostration spoken of in this message.
Will you not prostrate to the Almighty? Just because one physically prostrates doesnt mean he is prostrating to the sun or moon. God knows who His servants are. And a person knows who they are prostrating to.
When I prostrate I know who im prostrating to. I prostrate to the Almighty. The creater of the sun and the moon if you were certain.
When one prostrates it must be done with concentration, one cannot prostrate to the sun or moon or any other object " thinking" that he is worshiping God.
I truly serve God. So I prostrate to God, the one who created the sun and the moon.
And we believe in all of it. Physical prostration and the mental.
So when all the prophets and messengers fell prostrate, are you tellin us that they were worshipin the sun or moon?I dont think so.
You see them kneeling and prostrating, they are seeking a blessing from your Lord.
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In terms of evidence, the evidence is clearly against "sujood" meaning physical prostration
In any case, if you have reviewed the evidence, that is fine.I have not read Edip's article but I know he uses interpretations of 1778 and 2238 for example that have already been discussed.
Salaam Wakas,
I have not read Edip's article but I know he uses interpretations of 1778 and 2238 for example that have already been discussed.
What evidence; by whom? You mean some Arabic-speaking free-minders, who debate between themselves; trimming away what they dislike they disregard and manipulate the verses of the Qur?an. They agree on a new system explained by them not by the prophet. To them the prophet was some irrelevant deliverer of the message and they are more intelligent to finally establish the system thus completing the favour upon .....?
519 O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you explaining to you after a cessation of the (mission of the) messengers, lest you say There came not to us a giver of good news or a Warner, so indeed there has come to you a giver of good news and a warner; and Allah has power over all things.there are more verses showing it cannot mean a physical prostration than showing it can mean one. This is fact.
Just as the fact established that the month of fasting should fall in the Monsoon months, when the night of power is likely to be washed out in the Monsoon rains or exempting the blinds as well as the rest who fail to witness the ?Red Moon?. So NO sujood, NO fasting, NO obligations towards anyone and NO common sense either.
peace -
Peace be upon you,
God is not an object, and that being the case, you cannot physically prostrate to It. If you physically prostrate then you are prostrating to the sun or moon.
Absolutely!
In saying that , it is not wrong to physically prostrate as a means of ritual to help yourself be humble or whatever you are trying to do, but it is not commanded that we physically prostrate. God wants you to CHOOSE righteousness, that is the prostration spoken of in this message
No commandment as such, but there is plenty of evidience in the scriptures that the prophets prostrated and I see it as a sign of submission in humbleness.
The real prostration is of the WILL
Yes real prostration is that of WILL, Satan was asked to prostrate to Adam, but refused, simply that Satanic instincts refused to be controlled by Adam's ability to take charge.
peace
peace -
Peace be upon you both,
Again, if you choose to physically prostrate, thats fine, but looking at the world FULL of people who get on the ground, how much has getting on the ground changed the behavior of the worlds population? A so called "islamic terrorist" certainly prostrates physically, if only he/she would prostrate with the WILL, they would not do such foolish behavior. And isnt it the BEHAVIOR that we are suppossed to be changing with our prostration? Or are we just suppossed to be scarring our foreheads up?
There is a verse I want you to consider very seriously. I am not your enemy and I dont want you to jump back with a quick answer even if you have heard this before. There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.
Do you get on the groung everytime you hear a verse from the quran? Do not take this statement lightly because it will help you get closer to the message, closer to God who is closer than the Jugular vein (within), not way up in the sky somewhere. How can one physically prostrate to THAT which is WITHIN?DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder? That instead of going to cheat on your wife, you are reminded of truth and you prostrate your will to what is right and take yourself home to your wife? Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?
Also, there is a verse that says "enter the gate prostrating", you will certainly tear the flesh from your forehead if you make this a habit. But if you enter the gate in mental submission to God's Will, then you have entered correctly.
We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.
Lastly here is a question, who is better off, one who prostrates mentally but not physically, or one who prostrates physically but not mentally?
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Peace be upon you both,
Again, if you choose to physically prostrate, thats fine, but looking at the world FULL of people who get on the ground, how much has getting on the ground changed the behavior of the worlds population? A so called "islamic terrorist" certainly prostrates physically, if only he/she would prostrate with the WILL, they would not do such foolish behavior. And isnt it the BEHAVIOR that we are suppossed to be changing with our prostration? Or are we just suppossed to be scarring our foreheads up?
There is a verse I want you to consider very seriously. I am not your enemy and I dont want you to jump back with a quick answer even if you have heard this before. There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.
Do you get on the groung everytime you hear a verse from the quran? Do not take this statement lightly because it will help you get closer to the message, closer to God who is closer than the Jugular vein (within), not way up in the sky somewhere. How can one physically prostrate to THAT which is WITHIN?DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder? That instead of going to cheat on your wife, you are reminded of truth and you prostrate your will to what is right and take yourself home to your wife? Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?
Also, there is a verse that says "enter the gate prostrating", you will certainly tear the flesh from your forehead if you make this a habit. But if you enter the gate in mental submission to God's Will, then you have entered correctly.
We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.
Lastly here is a question, who is better off, one who prostrates mentally but not physically, or one who prostrates physically but not mentally?
Na jaa masjid na kar sajde udu ke ture de kozey
Nemaze-e-eshq parta jaa yahi teri ebadat hai
angel -
Peace be upon you,
Can you please translate so I can understand your response?
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Lastly here is a question, who is better off, one who prostrates mentally but not physically, or one who prostrates physically but not mentally?
neither one. Better is the one who prostrates both.
Example Only a fool would not prostrate physically. Why? Because if one was mentally sane ( one who prostrates mentally) then he would have the sence to prostrate his whole self to the Almi9ghty physically and mentally.
In other words if you are mentaly fit, then you would have the sence enuff to prostrate fully to the Almighty.
" None who are arrogant can stand in the precence of the Lord."
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peace farida,
By "evidence" I was referring to the info posted in this forum as well as articles, in which evidence is cited for various views. Of course, some of the info posted will be of a very poor quality, but some of it is very good. See 3918
If you wish to believe "sujood" means "physical prostration", that is up to you.
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Peace be upon you both,
Again, if you choose to physically prostrate, thats fine, but looking at the world FULL of people who get on the ground, how much has getting on the ground changed the behavior of the worlds population? A so called "islamic terrorist" certainly prostrates physically, if only he/she would prostrate with the WILL, they would not do such foolish behavior. And isnt it the BEHAVIOR that we are suppossed to be changing with our prostration? Or are we just suppossed to be scarring our foreheads up?
There is a verse I want you to consider very seriously. I am not your enemy and I dont want you to jump back with a quick answer even if you have heard this before. There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.
Do you get on the groung everytime you hear a verse from the quran? Do not take this statement lightly because it will help you get closer to the message, closer to God who is closer than the Jugular vein (within), not way up in the sky somewhere. How can one physically prostrate to THAT which is WITHIN?DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder? That instead of going to cheat on your wife, you are reminded of truth and you prostrate your will to what is right and take yourself home to your wife? Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?
Also, there is a verse that says "enter the gate prostrating", you will certainly tear the flesh from your forehead if you make this a habit. But if you enter the gate in mental submission to God's Will, then you have entered correctly.
We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.
Lastly here is a question, who is better off, one who prostrates mentally but not physically, or one who prostrates physically but not mentally?
Agree.
Anthony why don't you reply to the whole post instead of just the last question.
If you feel like physical prostration works for you, and helps you become a better person, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that God has commanded us to do so.
peace ) -
Peace be upon you Anthony Wallace,
if one was mentally sane ( one who prostrates mentally) then he would have the sence to prostrate his whole self to the Almi9ghty physically and mentally.
Do you not realize that your physical body ALREADY prostrates to GOD? Doesnt each cell do exactly what God commands it to do? Don't your cells already obey God? Doesnt your hair grow, skin repair itself from cuts, heart beat? So how does putting this earthly vehicle that already follows the will of God into a certain POSITION make it prostrate any more than it already does?
Saying one who is mentally sane prostrates physically is just an emotioanly charged statement, pleas give the logic of why one would do so, otherwise it s fine to agree to disagree, but lets always strive to further explain positions logically or else we are wasting our time here.
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Salaamun William and all,
neither one. Better is the one who prostrates both.
Example Only a fool would not prostrate physically. Why? Because if one was mentally sane ( one who prostrates mentally) then he would have the sence to prostrate his whole self to the Almi9ghty physically and mentally.
Alhamdulillah! I agree 100%
Logically this fits well, now we have to look for how AlQuraan supports this, because almost all the aayaats of AlQuraan are logical. InshaAllah, Allah will show us.
Regards,
mmKhan
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Salaaman Brother GW,
Do you not realize that your physical body ALREADY prostrates to GOD? Doesnt each cell do exactly what God commands it to do? Don't your cells already obey God? Doesnt your hair grow, skin repair itself from cuts, heart beat? So how does putting this earthly vehicle that already follows the will of God into a certain POSITION make it prostrate any more than it already does?
True. But I will clasify it into two as 'Automatic' and 'Manual'.
You are talking about Automatic part which is free from our will. You cannot control them. But Allah asked for Manual work "Illa man taaba, wa aamana, wa amila saalihan....". This part is called Manual. That we have to do.
Hope it helps. May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Peace be upon you,
Logically this fits well
Logic - a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration
Please explain why so many physical prostrators in the world have not improved the conditions of humanity after so long. The outer show can easily fool you, it is what is within that we must change. In fact, God tells us that God will not change the condition of a people until he change what is within thier Nafs(subconcious). You are saying that what you agree with is logical, but you have not given any logical explanation as to how putting your physical vehicle into a certain position does anything to change your behavior.
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Salaamun William and all,
Alhamdulillah! I agree 100%
Logically this fits well, now we have to look for how AlQuraan supports this, because almost all the aayaats of AlQuraan are logical. InshaAllah, Allah will show us.
Regards,
mmKhan
No actually it doesn't make sense, I think.
Prostrating mentally means obeying.God is not the only one we obey. We have to obey other people too. I don't see people physically prostrating to their captains or bosses or parents or teachers.
It is true that our mental state is reflected in our actions, but...
Obeying god is about doing the right actions. The physical manifestation of obeying and submitting to god is doing the right thing.And it's proven that physical prostration means nothing. When you have people that prostrate all the time and do bad things, it shows that the action is meaningless.
So the way we express and show our submission and obedience to God is by right actions.
I smile when I am happy. I cannot smile if I am not.
I do the right thing when I am in sujud to God. I cannot do the right thing if my mentality is not right.
I CAN however prostrate physically regardless of what I believe. That is a meaningless action that doesn't depend on our mental state. It's like sitting or standing. -
Peace be upon you,
You are talking about Automatic part which is free from our will. You cannot control them. But Allah asked for Manual work "Illa man taaba, wa aamana, wa amila saalihan....". This part is called Manual. That we have to do.
Yes, and the manual part would be to physically reach in your pocket and give money to poor, or refrain your hands from hoarding money, or working hard in the garden to produce good food, or to exercise to keep your vehicle in good shape, etc. All those "manual" actions require you to have already prostrates mentally. All of them have a purpose....unlike bending down on the ground. The enemy loves that you put your head on the ground, and wishes you would keep it "prostrate" all day long while they control your mind(nafs).
The Nafs, he who purifies it succeeds and he who corrupts it fails.
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Peace be upon you,
And let me again clarify that although physical prostration in itself does nothing, if you use it as a means of meditation to help change your subconcious(nafs), then by all means do so...but there are better positions for your body to get deeper into trance for meditation.
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Salaamun GW and Lobster,
I said both the states physically and mentally.
When I go for physical sajda and mentally also I feel that I am protrating to Allah alone, and I feel that I am nothing in front of Allah, and also I feel helpless without Allah, and so on...
I think mentally means it is in relation with your feelings. And until I prostrate physically, I never feel that I am showing myself small in front of Allah.
Most of the people who do physical sajda, I cannot answer for them, you have ask them why they do so. But I understand that they only do physical sajda but they don't add mental sajda within. (this is just my personal understanding) That might be the reason, they go for wrong things even after physical sajda.
And also as I said in my other post how will you define "Amale Saleh"? If you don't go for physical retuals?
May Allah open our hearts to understand His Book correctly.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Peace be upon you Anthony Wallace,
Do you not realize that your physical body ALREADY prostrates to GOD? Doesnt each cell do exactly what God commands it to do? Don't your cells already obey God? Doesnt your hair grow, skin repair itself from cuts, heart beat? So how does putting this earthly vehicle that already follows the will of God into a certain POSITION make it prostrate any more than it already does?
Saying one who is mentally sane prostrates physically is just an emotioanly charged statement, pleas give the logic of why one would do so, otherwise it s fine to agree to disagree, but lets always strive to further explain positions logically or else we are wasting our time here.
Salaam G W,
It has been stressed in the Qur'an that when they are asked to prostrate their necks get stiff and they do not prostrate so no, not every cell in the body is prostrating. If you say that the mere functions of the body means it's prostrating then this means that a person whose cells suffer from malfunctions his cells refuse to prostrate???
Every good act depends on our intention to perform it so, if for instance, we bend down to pick something up that is not the same as bowing before God.Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?
Huuh
There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.
And by this you mean that one should lie flat on the foor, according to this verse, or do your really read the answers given by those who have been trying to explain to you what prostration is ????
DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder?
And what are you trying to say that by prostrating ones behaviour is not changed, or that those who prostrate pay no heed to the message ???
If you are seriously interested in exchanging views than make an effort to read what others say and understand by prostration.We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.
You may have been deceived by bearded actors chanting prostrating and blowing themselves up. I have the book of guidance which teaches me very clearly how to recognise hypocrites and non believers, I am not so gullible as to get influenced by any physical act or even eloquence.
peace
