2:91 does NOT mean physical killing of the Prophets!

unknownuser

Peace jonny_k,

Good that you brought this up.

That is correct; prophets/messengers are under God?s protection.

A better translation is fight or deny them ? see various meanings...

2191 Waoqtuloohum?
And fight them?

Qul taAAalaw atlu ma harrama rabbukum AAalaykum alla tushrikoo bihi shay-an wabialwalidayni ihsanan wala taqtuloo awladakum min imlaqin nahnu narzuqukum wa-iyyahum wala taqraboo alfawahisha ma thahara minha wama batana wala taqtuloo alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahu illa bialhaqqi thalikum wassakum bihi laAAallakum taAAqiloona

6151 Say "Come I (will) read/recite what your Lord forbade on you, that do not make partners with Him (in) a thing, and with the parents (treat with) goodness, and do not kill/deny your children from poverty We provide for you and them, and do not approach/near the enormous/atrocious deeds, what is visible from it, and what is hidden, and do not kill the self that God forbade, except with the right, that He commanded you with it, maybe you comprehend."

Aliyan_J

Peace
@ Nun

| A better translation is fight or deny them ? see various meanings...

2191 Waoqtuloohum?
And fight them?

Qul taAAalaw atlu ma harrama rabbukum AAalaykum alla tushrikoo bihi shay-an wabialwalidayni ihsanan wala taqtuloo awladakum min imlaqin nahnu narzuqukum wa-iyyahum wala taqraboo alfawahisha ma thahara minha wama batana wala taqtuloo alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahu illa bialhaqqi thalikum wassakum bihi laAAallakum taAAqiloona

6151 Say "Come I (will) read/recite what your Lord forbade on you, that do not make partners with Him (in) a thing, and with the parents (treat with) goodness, and do not kill/deny your children from poverty We provide for you and them, and do not approach/near the enormous/atrocious deeds, what is visible from it, and what is hidden, and do not kill the self that God forbade, except with the right, that He commanded you with it, maybe you comprehend."

do you mean that the expression "qtuloo" signifies an idiomatic, as well as, a non idiomatic conotation?

unknownuser

Peace Aliyan,

Yes there are many idioms misunderstood and mistranslated; another example

538
Waalssariqu waalssariqatu faiqtaAAoo aydiyahuma
And the male thief and the female thief, so cut off their hands

"Their hands" (aydiyahum) is an idiom -- stop them or cut off their means...

4824
Wahuwa allathee kaffa aydiyahum AAankum waaydiyakum AAanhum
And He is who prevented their hands from you, and your hands from them

Muslimtruthrevealed

Peace jonny_k,

Good that you brought this up.

That is correct; prophets/messengers are under God?s protection.

A better translation is fight or deny them ? see various meanings...

2191 Waoqtuloohum?
And fight them?

Qul taAAalaw atlu ma harrama rabbukum AAalaykum alla tushrikoo bihi shay-an wabialwalidayni ihsanan wala
taqtuloo awladakum min imlaqin nahnu narzuqukum wa-iyyahum wala taqraboo alfawahisha ma thahara minha wama batana wala taqtuloo alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahu illa bialhaqqi thalikum wassakum bihi laAAallakum taAAqiloona

6151 Say "Come I (will) read/recite what your Lord forbade on you, that do not make partners with Him (in) a thing, and with the parents (treat with) goodness, and do not kill/deny your children from poverty We provide for you and them, and do not approach/near the enormous/atrocious deeds, what is visible from it, and what is hidden, and do not kill the self that God forbade, except with the right, that He commanded you with it, maybe you comprehend."

291....taqtuloona (1st person, singular, Imperfect Passive Verb, the subject (Believer) is the object of the verb)

Passive means a verb, or form of a verb, which expresses the effect of the action on the Subject of the verb, Not active, but acted upon; suffering or receiving impressions or INTERNAL influences

2191 wa oqtuloohum & fa oqtuloohum both Imperfect Passive Verbs & the 'hum' pronoun 'softens' the context and application of the verb also

Mazhar

And most certainly We had given Moses the Book and after him sent Messengers one after the other in succession. And We gave Easa the son of Mary evident and distinct demonstrative Signs and strengthened/ protected him through Angel Gibrail {Roohul Quds}. Is it not the fact that whenever there came a Messenger with advice/command which was not in consonance with your desires/wishful thinking, you puffed up with arrogance/pride? And for that reason you rejected some as impostors, and for other you tried to ridicule/insult/defame/irritate/annoy some others.{02091}

The objective/purpose of "Qatl" is to remove/put him away a person from the company of people/society. The same purpose can be achieved by defaming a person in the society so that he may not be able to excercise influence upon them. The charge of "Qatl" is only against the Jews and no other nation of the past has been charged for it in the entire Quran. Though all those nations had the intention of physical murder of the Messengers but none could execute their wish/plan.

The purpose of Qatl is only creating a distance between the society and the person intended to be "killed". Annoyance and irritation may also cause the "intended to be killed" to distance himself; Messengers did distance themselves by putting "Laa'n" on such groups of their nations. Musa, Daud, Easa alaihimussalam did it for Bani Israel.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Sura Baqarah 291 is NOT relating to 'Jews' Bani Israil does NOT mean 'Jews"

The 'origin' of Bani Israil / Believers were those who heeded the request of Nuh,as

and We gave Moosa/Moses Al-Kitab/The Book and we made it a guidance for Bani-Israel/Children of Israel that you do not hold fast to an advocate other than ME.

(Children of Israel) are the off springs / thurriyyata whom We carried with Nooh/Noah, surely he was a thankful servant.

We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel The Book / Al Kitab the Power of Command / Al Hukm, and Prophethood / Nubuwwat; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the WORLDS.

The 'Jews' NEVER and CURRENTLY do NOT have or follow Al Kitab. Nor have they 'established' Salat or Zakat

When WE took a covenant with the Bani-Israeel/Children of Israel that you will not serve except Allah and be good with your parents and with your relatives and the orphan and the needy and say to mankind good and establish Salah/Prayer and give Zakat/Justification then except few from you, turn away avoiding it.

Bani-Israil are the Believers who are 'reflecting' upon the Quran NOT the 'Jews"

Surely this Al-Quran relates / yaqussu over Bani-Israeel/Children of Israel that they differ in most of it.

? And surely it is a guidance and a mercy for those who believe.

Bani Israil are Muslims....

? We took the Children of Israel across the sea. Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and enmity. At length, when Pharaoh realized he was drowning, he said. "I believe that there is no god except Him WHOM the Children of Israel believe in. I am of those who submit / almuslimeen."

Mazhar

Sura Baqarah 291 is NOT relating to 'Jews' Bani Israil does NOT mean 'Jews"

Bani Israel on the arrival of Easa Alahissalam and Injeel got bifurcated into two groups. One Group who accepted and believed in Easa alahislam and Injeel and the other denied and thus became amongst "Kaafir". The Group that believed and retained the identity of Muslim later on started calling themselves "Nissara"; and the other Group who denied retains its identity as Bani Israel and Yahoodi {Jew}. Both Yahoodi and Nissara collectively are Ahle Kitab. They are the posterity of Israel, the grandson of Ibrahim alahissalam who is the posterity of people who were Muslims and accompanied Nuh alaihissalam.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Bani Israil and Yahood / Jew are NOT synonymous terms....they are NOT the same terms or reference to the same people.

Your understanding of Bani Israil as being 'Jew's' is founded upon the following Biblical references

Origin of the Children of Israel as 'Jews' Genesis 3225, 26, 27 Jeremiah 132, Acts 1036, Luke 1910, Matthew 1524, Matthew 106

Allah does NOT mention anywhere in the Quran that Bani Isra'il are 'Jews' or even in the Arabic as 'Yahood'

Allah describes Yahood / Jew's character in the following ayats

And the Yahood / Jew say "that hand of Allah is cuffed / tied up". Their hands are cuffed / tied up and they are cursed with what they have said. But both His hands are outspread He spends how He wills. And what is revealed to you from Allah definitely increases the majority amongst them in tyranny (i.e. unjustly harsh, cruel) and rejection. And We have put enmity and hatred amongst them to the Day of Judgement. Whenever they ignite the fire for war Allah extinguishes it and they make an effort in the earth to cause corruption. And Allah does not love those who are mufsedeen / corrupt.

The Yahood / Jew does NOT believe in Allah's Revelation and as a result wishes to cause corruption in the minds and community of others.....

Say. "O you that stand on Hadoo / Jew! If you think that you are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if you are truthful!"

But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent on before them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!

The personality trait of the Yahood / Jew believes that they are awliya to Allah and that they are better than other humans by excluding others from guidance through violence, corruption and deceit.

Allah descibes Bani Israil as follows

We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the WORLDS.

Surely this Al-Quran relates / yaqussu over Bani-Israeel/Children of Israel that they differ in most of it.

I dont recall anywhere in the Quran where Allah indicates that Yahood / Jew was given Al Kitab, The Quran, The Hukm and The Prophetic guidance

? When WE took a covenant with the Bani-Israeel/Children of Israel that you will not serve except Allah and be good with your parents and with your relatives and the orphan and the needy and say to mankind good and establish Salah/Prayer and give Zakat/Justification then except few from you, turn away avoiding it.

Again, I dont recall any ayah in the Quran that suggests Yahood / Jew has established Salat and Zakat. Considering that Allah has stated above in Sura Maidah 564 that the Yahood / Jew does NOT believe in Allah's guidance.

Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).

Allah has stated in Sura Maidah 564 "We have put enmity and hatred amongst them to the Day of Judgement. Whenever they ignite the fire for war Allah extinguishes it and they make an effort in the earth to cause corruption. And Allah does not love those who are mufsedeen / corrupt"

Allah states that Bani Isra'il are favored and blessed by Allah.

Mazhar

Who were they who crossed the gulf of suez alongwith Musa and Haroon {peace is upon both}? Arent' they Bani Israel?

Muslimtruthrevealed

Who were they who crossed the gulf of suez alongwith Musa and Haroon {peace is upon both}? Arent' they Bani Israel?

Bani Israil are Muslims....

? We took the Children of Israel across the sea. Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and enmity. At length, when Pharaoh realized he was drowning, he said. "I believe that there is no god except Him WHOM the Children of Israel believe in. I am of those who are muslimeen."

Again, Your understanding of Bani Israil as being 'Jew's' is influenced by the following Biblical references (NOT the Quran)

Origin of the Children of Israel as 'Jews' Genesis 3225, 26, 27 Jeremiah 132, Acts 1036, Luke 1910, Matthew 1524, Matthew 106

Muslimtruthrevealed

Isra/Asra means to travel (spiritually), to experience a journey or pursuit. Its root is 'sara' means to travel at night.

One interesting form of the root word 'sara' is 'sariyyan' which means stream....

Various ayahs in the Quran describe this journey with Muusa,as and Bani'Isra'il.....

By inspiration we told Moses. "Travel by night with my servants / an ASRI biAAibadee; for surely you shall be pursued."

(The reply came.) "March forth with My Servants by night / FaASRI biAAibadee. for you are sure to be pursued.

WE SENT AN INSPIRATION TO MOSES. "Travel by night with My servants / ASRI biAAibadee, and strike a dry path for them through the sea, withoutfear of being overtaken (by Pharaoh) and without (any other) fear."

Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night / asra biAAabdihi from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs. for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

The reference to Bani'Isra'il is regarding those who 'journey' in the cause of spiritual development and freedom NOT about 'Jews' settling in a geographic region, as defined in the Biblical text.

Assalaam Alaikum

Mazhar

Bani Israil are Muslims....

? We took the Children of Israel across the sea. Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and enmity. At length, when Pharaoh realized he was drowning, he said. "I believe that there is no god except Him WHOM the Children of Israel believe in. I am of those who are muslimeen."

It is not a point to disagree that at that point of time many amongst Bani Isreal were Muslimeen. Pharoah proclaimed to be amongst Muslimeen after declaring that he now believes in that Sustainer Lord in Whom Bani Isreal believe. Islam is a physical act, the physical proof of one's claim that he is a believer, believing in Allah and other realities is a concept.

Quran nowhere addresses people as Muslimeen. He addresses people by their apparent identity. Nuh alahissalam also used the word Muslim for himself. Bani Isreal is the identity of nation. A few amongst them are believers/Momenneen but majority is Fasiq as per the announcement of Quran.

Muslimtruthrevealed

It is not a point to disagree that at that point of time many amongst Bani Isreal were Muslimeen. Pharoah proclaimed to be amongst Muslimeen after declaring that he now believes in that Sustainer Lord in Whom Bani Isreal believe. Islam is a physical act, the physical proof of one's claim that he is a believer, believing in Allah and other realities is a concept.

Quran nowhere addresses people as Muslimeen. He addresses people by their apparent identity. Nuh alahissalam also used the word Muslim for himself. Bani Isreal is the identity of nation. A few amongst them are believers/Momenneen but majority is Fasiq as per the announcement of Quran.

@Mazhar ...If you wish Bani'Israil to be 'Jews' you are free to suggest that. But more importantly realize that the Quran does NOT support that assertion.

For example, Where does Allah suggest that the 'majority' of Bani'Israil are 'fasiq'?

Per your statement "A few amongst them are believers/Momenneen but majority is Fasiq as per the announcement of Quran"

@Mazhar Another interesting statement you made "Quran nowhere addresses people as Muslimeen"

Allah does in fact addresses 'Muslimeen' throughout the Quran....

My devotees! no fear shall be on you that Day, nor shall you grieve,-
(Being) those who believe in Our Signs and bow in Islam / kanoo muslimeena

And jahedo / you strive in (the way of) Allah as the right of jehad / Striving in (the way of) Him. He has chosen you and has impose no difficulties on you in the Deen/judgment. It is the religion of your father/ancestor Ibraheem/Abraham. It is He Who has named you MUSLIMS/SUBMITTERS, both before / millata abeekum ibraheema huwa sammakumu almuslimeena min qablu

For Muslim men and women / Inna almuslimeena wa almuslimati,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for MEN AND WOMEN WHO GUARD THEIR CHASITY, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- FOR THEM HAS ALLAH PREPARED FORGIVENESS AND GREAT REWARD.

Muhammad,as, Muusa,as and various other prophets and Messengers proclaimed that they are 'Muslimeen'

Bani'Israil....those who were with Nuh,as PRIOR to the Tawrat, they made exceptions in the practice and guidance and created their own 'unlawful' prohibitions, ordinances and laws.

Yet I dont see in the Quran where Allah refers to Bani'Israil as 'fasiq' which means corrupt, neglectful, etc.

The following ayah makes this clear

All aspects of behavior, disposition and perceptions / al-taAAami were lawful by the Children of Israel, EXCEPT what Israel Made unlawful for itself / ma harrama israeelu AAala nafsihi, BEFORE the Law / al-tawratu was revealed. Say. "Bring you the Law and study it, if you be men of truth."

Kullu al-taAAami kana hillan libanee israeela illa ma harrama israeelu AAala nafsihi min qabli an tunazzala al-tawratu qul fatoo bial-tawrati faotlooha in kuntum sadiqeena

Note

al-taAAami means quality of ones character, quality of ones intellect, taste of food one who is uncorrupted in their perception, natural disposition, that which is consumed is agreeable, sustenance and gain is acceptable, sweet, bitter
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 338-339 (ta?ima); Lanes Lexicon Part 5 page 1854 - 1855
Online Single Page #139-140 http//www.studyquran.co.uk/LLhome.htm

Mazhar

Say. "O you that stand on Hadoo / Jew! If you think that you are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if you are truthful!"

But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent on before them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!

The same thing has been told about Bani Israel in 0294. And 0295 and 6207 are almost identical

Muslimtruthrevealed

The same thing has been told about Bani Israel in 0294. And 0295 and 6207 are almost identical

@Mazhar...It seems that you are still 'mixing' terms, people and references incorrectly, to again suggest Bani'Israil are 'Jews'...

Say. "If the last Home, with Allah, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek you for death, if you are sincere

But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.

Your reference in 294 & 295 is referring to Yahood / Jews NOT Bani'Israil

Your reference to 626 & 627 CONFIRMS that Bani'Israil is NOT Yahood / Jews....

Say. "O you that stand on Hadoo / Jew! If you think that you are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if you are truthful!"

But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent on before them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!

In a earlier post I gave you the ayahs that describe Bani'Israil...here is the repost....