Oral Debate between Ayman and Edip...
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Peace Anthony,
Unfortunately, many 19ers falsely quote this "over it is 19" part in isolation to imply that "over it is 19" refers to the great reading and a bunch of other things (the golden ratio, etc...). They take advantage of naive English speakers who will not verify the information and look in the original text to see that in Arabic there is no gender neutral "it" and the passage actually has "3alayha" which literally means "over her" and the Arabic word "quran" is masculine while "saqar"/scorcherer/fire is feminine. So "over it" is actually refering to nothing but the hellfire.For those who would like to see the hadith-sunna-based distortions made on verses of chapter 74 in opposition to 20114, please see my exposition titled Which one do you see Hell or Miracle? at
http//www.19.org/index.php?id=14,175,0,0,1,0
No wonder Ayman cannot witness Quran's great signs His eyes and mind are clouded with the smoke of Hellfiire, "Nothing but Hellfire!"
Peace,
Edip -
Peace Anthony,
Unfortunately, many 19ers falsely quote this "over it is 19" part in isolation to imply that "over it is 19" refers to the great reading and a bunch of other things (the golden ratio, etc...). They take advantage of naive English speakers who will not verify the information and look in the original text to see that in Arabic there is no gender neutral "it" and the passage actually has "3alayha" which literally means "over her" and the Arabic word "quran" is masculine while "saqar"/scorcherer/fire is feminine. So "over it" is actually refering to nothing but the hellfire.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Edip
Can you please react right away on Ayman's claim above. I have read your article, which is incorporated in the Reformist Translation; what I need to know if what is supposed to be there is an IT, HE or SHE.
Thanks.
ramon O0
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Salam Edip, all
I could not resist commenting on this linguistic error that lead to a translation error
This is what I read in the link
7435 This (NUMBER) is one of the GREATEST (KUBRA).
7436 A WARNING (NAZEER) for the PEOPLE (BASHAR).
the translation is verily (to those who like to translate inna) It is one of the kubar (plural of the feminine adjective kubra biggest).
"It" is feminine. It clearly points back to "sagar hell", already mentioned in verse 26, and then again in verse 42. The other "biggest" are the different hells (and are all feminine nouns). I cannot find another word for "number" that is feminine. Moreover, the theme is not the (ninteen that are over saqar) but saqar itself.
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Peace sister Samia,
I could not resist commenting on this linguistic error that lead to a translation error
This is what I read in the link7435 This (NUMBER) is one of the GREATEST (KUBRA).
7436 A WARNING (NAZEER) for the PEOPLE (BASHAR).the translation is verily (to those who like to translate inna) It is one of the kubar (plural of the feminine adjective kubra biggest).
"It" is feminine. It clearly points back to "sagar hell", already mentioned in verse 26, and then again in verse 42. The other "biggest" are the different hells (and are all feminine nouns). I cannot find another word for "number" that is feminine. Moreover, the theme is not the (ninteen that are over saqar) but saqar itself.
Thank you sister for your excellent observation.
The word ?nazeer? can mean both ?warning? and ?warner? in Arabic. So when the messenger is a ?nazeer?, in this case a ?warner?, the messenger is warning about something. This something is always hell or punishment. In 2119; 519; 519; 7184; 7188; 112; 1112; 1125; 1589; 17105; 251; 257; 2551; 2556; 26115; 2846; 2950; 323; 3345; 3428; 3434; 3444; 3446; 3523; 3524; 3524; 3537; 3542; 3542; 3870; 414; 4323; 469; 488; 5150; 5151; 5356; 678; 679; 6717; 6726; 712, the warning is never about a Code 19. For example
5356 talks about the warning and then immediately refers to the coming of hell.
4621 talks about ?nuthur? (plural) of the punishment of a great day.
182 the verb form clearly talks about the god warning of a severe punishment.Also, notice that in several of those passages the term ?nazeer? is accompanied by the term ?basheer? or ?bearing good promises/news?. Of course, the good promises or reward is about heaven, which is the opposite of hell. It is not the opposite of Code 19.
Also, 19ers ignore that in addition to Chapter 74, the same exact word "saqar" is mentioned in another place in Chapter 54. In this chapter, ?the god?s punishment? and the plural form of ?nathira? (?nuthur?) are mentioned together no less than five times in 5416, 21, 30, 37 and 39 and they clearly indicate that the ?warnings? are about a punishment that is tasted not Code 19. So for example, 5436 clearly indicates that warnings/?nuthur? is about punishment not some Code. Passages 5437 and 5439 are quite telling because they talk about tasting the ?punishment and the warnings/"nuthur"?. So the ?warnings? are clearly about a punishment that is tasted not Code 19. 5436 specifically states that the god warned of his PUNISHMENT and that people made fun of those warnings/?nuthur?. So, clearly and indisputably, in Chapter 54, where the other occurrence of ?saqar? is used, the multiple ?nathira?/warnings are about the god?s punishment and not Code 19.
I am certain that the author of Chapter 54 does NOT have his ?eyes and mind clouded with the smoke of Hellfiire, Nothing but Hellfire? as Edip is saying. Mistranslating the god's signs to make them fit his Code 19 was what Dr. Khalifa best at and unfortunately Edip seems to be stuck on following in his footsteps. In fact, if you read every passage in Dr. Khalifa's translation where he proposes that it refers to himself or to Code 19, you will see that they are grossly and systematically mistranslated and even Edip himself has acknowledged Dr. Khalifa's mistranslation of 7431. After all this, they dare claim that he was a messenger.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
I was expecting better than this from a mathematic PHD holder (
...
chapter number
verse number,
total of letters in each verse
followed by every single letter values
INTERLOCKED
Into
Code 19
Nothing can be added or be deducted.
I hope this could result a reconsideration by those that have doubt in Miracle .
Discoveries with no interlock which can be manipulated has no value.Bahman, it doesn't take a PhD to know that there is no "interlock" to anything in the chapter. Getting a 19 divisible is ONLY a result of your haphazard method above. You are mixing and matching methods of counting three different parameters to get the result. Hence, if you change the method to a more coherent one, you would not get a 19 divisible. For example, you are shifting from (1) a sequencing of chapter and verse to (2) a tally of the number of letters and then suddenly shifting again to (3) a GV of each letter.
If you use a more coherent methods such as ones that consistently relies on (1) sequencing chapter, verse, and letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Similarly, if you use (1) sequencing of chapter, verse, words, and letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you rely only on (2) tallying then you would tally the number of verses, followed by the number of words, followed by the number of letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you combine both parameters and use (1) sequencing first and then (2) tally then you still wouldn't get a 19 divisible.
If you combine them by alternating them (1)(2)(1)(2) so that you do chapter, number of verses, verse, number of words, letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible.
If you introduce GV and rely on (1) sequencing chapter, verse, and letters followed by (3) GV of any combination of chapter, verse, and letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you combine (1) sequencing chapter with (3) GV of chapter, (1) verse with (3) GV of verse, and (1) letters with (3) GV of letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you combine (1) sequencing chapter with (3) GV of chapter, (1) verse with (3) GV of verse, and (1) each individual letter with (3) GV of each individual letter then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Similarly, if you use GV with (1) sequencing of chapter (3) and GV of chapter, (1) verse (3) and GV of verse, (1) words (3) and GV of words, and (1) letters followed by (3) GV letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Similarly, if you use GV with (1) sequencing of chapter (3) and GV of chapter, (1) verse (3) and GV of verse, (1) individual words (3) and GV of each individual word, and (1) letters followed by (3) GV letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Similarly, if you use GV with (1) sequencing of chapter (3) and GV of chapter, (1) verse (3) and GV of verse, (1) individual words (3) and GV of each individual word, and (1) individual letters followed by (3) GV of each individual letter then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you rely only on (2) tallying and (3) GV then you would (2) tally the number of verses and the (3) GV of each verse, followed by (2) the number of words and (3) the GV of each word, followed by (2) the number of letters and the GV of each letter then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Similarly, if you rely on (2) tallying and (3) GV then you can (2) tally the number of verses and the (3) GV of all verses, followed by (2) the number of words and (3) the GV of all words, followed by (2) the number of letters and the GV of all letters then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
If you combine all three parameters and use (1) sequencing first and then (2) tally then (3) GV in for example, (1) sequence of chapter (2) tally the number of verses (3) the GV of the chapter, (1) sequence of verse and the (2) tally the number of words (3) GV of each verse, followed by (1) sequence of words (2) tally the number of letters and (3) the GV of each word, followed by (2) sequence of letters and the GV of each letter then you wouldn't get a 19 divisible result.
Within this, you can alternate so that you can have sequence first or second or third or tally first or second or third or GV first or second or third.
You can also alternate by eliminating parameters as you have done by eliminating GVs for chapter and verses and only using them for individual letters. You have also eliminated any sequence, tallies or GVs having to do with words. You have also selectively used tallies for letters but not for verses and you have selectively used sequence for chapter and verses but not for letters.
If you have ?discovered? this ?code? then I am sure that your selection of parameters and methods out of the many possible combinations is a result of trial and error. You have certainly tried several of the above and perhaps even many more before you found this one method which gives a 19 divisible. Of course, as usual you are not telling us about your failed trials and only sharing your successful ONE in bright colors so that you impress ignorants like yourself. Your ?Code? is only ?interlocked? to your arbitrary random method and it has nothing to do with anything in the great reading. Change the method and your code vanishes into thin air. So again, sorry to burst your bubble but your "Code" is even easier to dismiss than Nun's nonsensical code.
I hope that I have clarified to you and everyone the perspective of a PHD holder (or anyone who doesn?t forgo their god-given common sense when they are attracted to this ?fitna?/temptation, which I admit can be very tempting).
Peace,
Ayman
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I hope that I have clarified to you and everyone the perspective of a PHD holder (or anyone who doesn?t forgo their god-given common sense when they are attracted to this ?fitna?/temptation, which I admit can be very tempting).
Peace,
Ayman
It is tempting. tempt ;D
And you said that the Quran cant be the "scorcher" because Quran is masculin and the scorcher is fiminin right? Just makin sure I understand correct.
peace
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Peace Bahman,
Edip and you claim that the initials don't have real meaning and they are just added to complete the code. So if according to you, the god can add meaningless gibberish to complete the code then why can't I do the same and make a more impressive code than yours?
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
As you know I and many others do no have such Arabic knowledge to discuss root of words and its meaning in Arabic.
God knows future, God knew that many well educated sunnis and shia clergies and scholars like you can not leave all your past belief as is not easy and needs lot of sacrifice. Rashad did it and put his life on it , Edip did it and sacrificed many things. GW you may do it before or after Oct19. God knows best.
Do a favor to m e and response about main issue produce one chapter like ?The Key then I would consider your claim for meaning of 7430.
Although I could understand the calculation in chapter The Key due my Arabic knowledge as Iranian but it is difficult for those which do not have knowledge of Arabic letters and ABJAD .
So as I have stated the first phase of Miracle was revealed to person with good Arabic knowledge and only translator with his mother language Arabic. Is no guarantee that his translation flaw free as interpreting God?s word is not easy even for His messenger.
As I had stated I was expecting from people following their books to demonstrate a solid sign for existence of their invisible God and divinity of their books before they read verses for me like apple falling from tree as sign for invisible gravity.Unfortunately all Ex Sunnis and Shia miracle believers due to their life time study in Arabic have special interest to discuss Miracle issues in by using Arabic knowledge and avoiding to mention it in their publications and public Awesome Miracle as Messenger of God claimed for discovery by A.Arik. avoided to use Numerical Mircale which has been there for years but is ignored.
This Awesome Miracle is so great that no disbeliever can resist unless claims he or she can produce one.
This Miracle do no need any Arabic knowledge or reading book. It is before you open the book.
From now when I explain this Awesome Miracle to be asked why 19 my response would be first verse of book has 19 letters which is constructed by frequency of 10 letters.
9 of this letter are 9 of those 14 initials in 27 chapters of 29 chapters which initials totalize to multiple of 19.
http//y19.net/30chapters.htmThe Verse has been repeated 114 times in whole book and book has 114 chapters is multiple of 19.
But regardless all those the Awsome Miracle has its own independency solidly linked to 19.
The pattern is large 12000 digits plus but very simple and impossible to imitate.
You can use your cad and your knowledge and try it and let your machine runs to find probabilities by seconds for days, months, years, centuries, infinite to find another pattern to fits the book.
All we is 2 group of numbers for 114 chapters.
A- number of verse in each chapter
B- witting whole numbers in chapter like 1234567 for chapter 1 and 123????..285 for second chapter and so on to chapter 114 123456
Trail for such combination Value A and B can be
AB or BA
ONLY 2 TRAIL AB is multiple of 19 and there is no room for any other probability unless you change whole book and design another one with different.
Can you do it?Then we find with BA case we find adding total of verse in whole book at end mkes it multiple of 19.
Can you do it?
And another 14 cases
By now you should be honest and tell me if I am wrong. Evry chapter is interlocked into its number and chapter 9 interlocked into 127 chapters
You can not add or deduct any number, There is no 19 cycle here as it would change the book.
Such proof with no Arbic knowledge is obvious to world wide to examine it .
If you produce one of those was explained then I would listen to your chat on Oct 19Y
Your reputation now is INTERLOCKED into this challenge
Peace. -
Jesus said " I baptize you with water so that you will give up your sins. But someone more powerful that me is coming and im not even good enuff to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with Fire.
God said " I will send a famine on the land. Not a famine of food and water, but a famine of hearing the words of God. They shall run to and fro for the words of the Lord; but they shall not find."
Jesus said " I am the bread that give life, no one who comes to me will ever be hungry of thirsty ( somthin like that ) ect..."
I believe in the couneted everthing in Quran ( letters,words, verses, ect...), but I dont think the verses should be removed. But rather to enforce awarness about.
If the scorcher ( Fire) is the Quran, then you got me sold. )
peace aymen. You goin on a debate? Who is epid? Youll go be on live tv or you tube. D
peace
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Bahman, it doesn't take a PhD to know that there is no "interlock" to anything in the chapter. Getting a 19 divisible is ONLY a result of your haphazard method above. You are mixing and matching methods of counting three different parameters to get the result. Hence, If you change the method to a more coherent one, you would not get a 19 divisible. For example, you are shifting from (1) a sequencing of chapter and verse to (2) a tally of the number of letters and then suddenly shifting again to (3) a GV of each letter.
If you ...................
Peace Ayman
I asked you just produce one like those even defected, broken, cheap, no value . no interlock ?.. do not worry just produce one like that.You wrote 17 times? if ? I do that or this and so on and expecting all conditions according to your learnt formula, equation, rules, laws ??????????
If we knew formula then it was not Miracle.635
If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). Had GOD willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like the ignorant oneshttp//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat6_files/6_35.gif
61502015020220070301020170200180054080150160400970400150400240010001050801001801013012008001660304011801013060401180400140010540211056306300111303053034070540703010130541803014002065050405013035301050
multiple of 7
then I checked this site http//www.openburhan.com/
found extra alief
615020150202200703010201702001800540801501604009704001504002400100010508010018010130120080016603040118010130604011804001400105402110563063001113030530340705407030101305418030140020650504050130315301050
multiple of 7
then I added chapter and verse number
635615020150202200703010201702001800540801501604009704001504002400100010508010018010130120080016603040118010130604011804001400105402110563063001113030530340705407030101305418030140020650504050130315301050
multiple of 7
I consider this support for my attempt and search for code 7 in GR.
http//y19.net/q7.html
Peace. -
Edip and you claim that the initials don't have real meaning and they are just added to complete the code. So if according to you, the god can add meaningless gibberish to complete the code then why can't I do the same and make a more impressive code than yours?
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam
I see; Ayman is looking for any excuse to compete with God, and establish a religion based on his gibberish, where he does not need God's permisson or even God, or any authority, except his own arrogant desire to prove himself right.
I had the experience of debating with him on the subject of Hot/Ramadan and I was able to see clearly that he constantly ignored verses from the Quran and kept asking irrelevant questions, taking the discussion back and forth until people got fed up and left the thread, knowing that many people do not have the desire or patience to read the full discussion and often see the bottom line. His cronies finish off by backing him blindly, giving the impression that they won the argument. Sadly most valid proofs are buried in his desire to distort the system.I hope that I have clarified to you and everyone the perspective of a PHD holder (or anyone who doesn?t forgo their god-given common sense when they are attracted to this ?fitna?/temptation, which I admit can be very tempting).
Peace,
AymanNo Sir, you have let down your PHD by holding on to your twisted views, void of any sense, hoping others will mistake it for common sense.
To me one example of your fitna is when you insist on fasting based on your calculation in summer and creating the temptation for people to fast for only ten days, or even skip fasitng altogether if they failed to witness your 'scorching moon'.'Vade retro Satanas'.
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Peace Farida,
Normally I would ignore your antics but the last line of your outburst was too funny.
'Vade retro Satanas'
http//i33.tinypic.com/ilzs7s.jpg
D 6 6 6 VS 1 0 9 angel
Bahman, you are the resident Free-Minds expert on finding hidden codes in the post and reply numbers. What do you think? )
Farida, take a deep breath and try to calm down.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salaam Bahman
I hope your extra alif is the first, and only, alif in this word, because it's written and not .Peace
You missed this part )
"then I checked this site
http//www.openburhan.com/
found extra alief"in this one a short Alief after Jeem given A to it . I wonder if it makes any different in meaning showing Alie or not.
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat6_files/6_35.gif
Than you for your advise.
peace -
Peace Farida,
Normally I would ignore your antics but the last line of your outburst was too funny.
http//i33.tinypic.com/ilzs7s.jpgD 6 6 6 VS 1 0 9 angel
Bahman, you are the resident Free-Minds expert on finding hidden codes in the post and reply numbers. What do you think? )
Peace. Ayman
You should know by now that 666
is not Satan .
Spreading wrong information knowingly is work of Satan which controls money and corruption and hope you are not one of them. )
Frida is telling the truth about your misleading the readers by redirecting topics and responding with many zig zag running like Zebra running from Lion.You do not have to be expert or holding PHD putting numbers next to each other and find if is divisible by 19.
But designing it is another thing that I have asked for a decay and no body could do it other way iwas not here ).
But your 3 specific posts in the in different topic ( needs time to find those. I should make a collection) mocking God?s Miracle number date and time have been divisible of 19 could not be coincident .
Farida In 666th post explaining same experience I and others have had with you and then you mock 666 and 19 .
and
Is this coincidence
Hr Min Sec Day Month Year
19125003102008=
19x01006579110632=
19x0052977847928
7431 )
Peace
PS I see 3 19 = 57 Q as you accepted existence of 19 in that chapter and another 2 which are n same group. I can not remeber do you ? -
Salaam nimnimak_11
(what does the 11 in your name stand for BTW? I often look at my watch and there's an eleven minutes or hour. As I started this post, it was 1100).Back to my post. The bismillah you call (a compensation to complete the count of 114) is actually completely different from the other 113 bismillahs. The 113 ones introduce God's speech, and the "compensator" introduces a human speech. So you cannot equate them and add oranges to apples.
;D bravo
Peace Sister
Seeing as you started this thread at 1100 and the number in my ID is 11 o o that must mean hmm ! ! That I must contribute plenty in this thread yay
Jokes aside, that number is just a random pick with no significance other then the fact that i use it as my ID in a couple of sites the first of which did not exept nimnimak so i had to tag it with _11 for it to be expetable.
Back to the topic,
I completely agree that the 2nd bismallah is different to all the the others used as is clear in the quran. But also clear is that chap 9 is missing a bismallah which is the oddest thing IMO in the Quran. What i equate in this case, is the frequency of the phrase bismallah and not it's context Sister.
We could say that in chap 27 the second bismallah is a coincidence but i don't think we can say that the missing bismallah in chap 9 is a coincidence.
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Peace Nimnimak,
But also clear is that chap 9 is missing a bismallah which is the oddest thing IMO in the Quran.
How do you know it is missing a "bismallah"? Do you think that the decorations on the top of the page where chapters start were inspired by the god? Do you think that the names on top of the chapters were inspired by the god?
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Bahman,
I asked you just produce one like those even defected, broken, cheap, no value . no interlock ?.. do not worry just produce one like that.
Bahman, why did you choose this particular method and not any of the methods that I presented or the many more possible methods? Please be honest. You tried other methods and only this one gave you a 19 divisible, didn't you?
Peace,
Ayman