what is AL KITAB ?
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Assalaam Alaikum @Arnab
Im sorry but I did not take the time to read your dissertation. I have seen this tactic used on various forums to 'muddy' the thread. It happens when 'agendas' are exposed and individuals begin to 'personalize' the thread.
Unfortunately, you are still fixated on Hebrew, Bible and Semetic dialects.
I informed you clearly that the context and focus is Quranan Arabiyyan NOT dialect of semetic languages.
I gave you the definitive and the focus of our discussion
I`rab
The Arabic word I?rb ( ‎ designates the system of nominal and adjectival suffixes of Classical / Quranic Arabic. The term is cognate to the word Arab itself. These suffixes are written in fully vocalized Arabic texts, notably the Qur'an, and they are articulated when a text is formally read aloud, but they do not survive in any spoken dialect of Arabic / Semetic.I then requested that you address the ayahs that I referenced in a previous post and the additional ayahs as confirmation.
So that we can further the discussion and remain on point, would you please address the following ayahs
@Arnab...your statement..."543
And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers."This interpretation is WRONG and misleading.....
"they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment".....Is NOT reflected in the ayah and is DELIBERATELY misleading...
Wa kayfa yuhakkimoonaka waAAindahumu alttawratu feeha hukmu Allahi thumma yatawallawna min baAAdi thalika wama olaika bialmumineena
kayfa means ?How?, Its relevance pertains to a conditional action that has taken place in the past or taking place now
yuhakkimoonaka appoint someone to judge YOU
AAindahumu is a preposition which means WITH THESE WORDS, at this moment, as we speak
feeha means literally INSIDE / IN it
hukmu Allahi = Hukm of AllahThe ayah is NOT referring to a 'Torah' written by the Halakhim centuries ago, during the Jewish Temple period. Nor does Allah's Hukm reside in a 'Torah'
Now Allah will show you WHO was given Al Kitab and the Hukm of Allah......
? That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people. We raise whom We will, degree after degree. for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.
? We gave him Isaac and Jacob. all (three) guided. and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. thus do We reward those who do good.
? And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias. all in the ranks of the righteous.
? And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot. and to all We gave favour above the nations.@Arnab..seems to be about 19 -21 Prophets/Messengers mentioned.....
These were the men (aforementioned) to whom We gave THE BOOK / AL-KITABA, and authority / AL-HUKM, and prophethood. if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.
Allah makes it clear the language of the Kitab and the Hukm....
A Revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;-
A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic / anzalnahu HUKMan AAarabiyyan. Were you to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which has reached you, then wouldst you find neither protector nor defender against Allah.
@Arnab your claim was that Sura 543 suggests The Hukm is the Torah in Hebrew. That's illogical and misleading, Allah has stated that the Kitab is REVEALED in Arabic and the Hukm is REVEALED in Arabic
@Arnab....What did Allah state that he gave the 19 Messengers and Prophets? (in Sura 6.89)
I await your response to THIS question
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Salam,
Alkitab is everything that is pre-ordained by Allah. (Kutiba 3alaykum).
The Quran mentions "Ahl Al-kitab" people/family of the book.
Those are obviously people following a system or guidance from Allah, as the Quran also mentions that to every community/peoples We sent a Messenger.
So kitab is any pre-ordained, pre-written system which is in place. The system includes guidance for mankind doing good and forbidding evil.
Al-Quran literally means "the reading".
When you read the book of Allah remember to see whether it says hatha Al-Quran (specifically THIS Quran), or just Quran (readings).
Also remember to see if it says hatha al-kitab (specifically THIS piece of writing/book/pre-ordained system) or just kitab.
While doing this, remember what Islam (submission) to Allah really is, and the importance of Abraham's (pbuh) coventant with Allah in regards to this, as he is the one who built the foundation.
Mohammad (pbuh) as per the Quran, was nothing but a bearer of good news for good people, and a warner to the evil doers.
So to take his example, is doing exactly what is mentioned above.
Salam
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Salam,
@Arnab....What did Allah state that he gave the 19 Messengers and Prophets? (in Sura 6.89)
I await your response to THIS question
The Book,
The Judgement/rule
The ProphethoodNow I ask you What is Al-Kitab?
I've already answered the other questions.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
Alkitab is everything that is pre-ordained by Allah. (Kutiba 3alaykum).
The Quran mentions "Ahl Al-kitab" people/family of the book.
Those are obviously people following a system or guidance from Allah, as the Quran also mentions that to every community/peoples We sent a Messenger.
So kitab is any pre-ordained, pre-written system which is in place. The system includes guidance for mankind doing good and forbidding evil.
Al-Quran literally means "the reading".
When you read the book of Allah remember to see whether it says hatha Al-Quran (specifically THIS Quran), or just Quran (readings).
Also remember to see if it says hatha al-kitab (specifically THIS piece of writing/book/pre-ordained system) or just kitab.
While doing this, remember what Islam (submission) to Allah really is, and the importance of Abraham's (pbuh) coventant with Allah in regards to this, as he is the one who built the foundation.
Mohammad (pbuh) as per the Quran, was nothing but a bearer of good news for good people, and a warner to the evil doers.
So to take his example, is doing exactly what is mentioned above.
Salam
Salam,
Well said peace4life. bravo
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam,
The Book,
The Judgement/rule
The ProphethoodNow I ask you What is Al-Kitab?
I've already answered the other questions.
Salam,
ArnabAssalaam Alaikum @Arnab
Thank You for addressing the question.
@Arnab According to the ayah you posted Sura Maidah 543, Al Hukm / The Judgement is embodied in Al Tawrat / The Law.
alttawratu feeha hukmu Allahi
@Arnab According to the following ayahs Al Kitab / The Book and Al Hukm / The Judgement were revealed to the Prophets and Messengers with a specific language.
A Revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;-
A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic / anzalnahu HUKMan AAarabiyyan. Were you to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which has reached you, then wouldst you find neither protector nor defender against Allah.
@Arnab....What language did Allah reveal Al Kitab / The Book and The Judgement / Al Hukm?
I await your response to THIS question
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Assalaam Alaikum @Arnab
Thank You for addressing the question.
@Arnab According to the ayah you posted Sura Maidah 543, Al Hukm / The Judgement is embodied in Al Tawrat / The Law.
alttawratu feeha hukmu Allahi
This ayah has to be read
- in its entirety
and - in context with the surrounding verses.
DISCLAIMER No translation is entirely accurate. The translations are only used to make a general point. As always, please read the verses in Arabic.
543
And HOW do they ask you to judge when with them is the TORAH and they turn away after that and those are not with the believers.
Yes there is judgement in the Torah. And if you read the surrounding verses you will get a better understanding of what is being said
541
O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
542
(They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.
543
And HOW do they ask you to judge when with them is the TORAH and they turn away after that and those are not with the believers.
This is quite clearly referring to the Torah which the Jews were given if you read the verse in context.
Allah is asking How do they make thee a judge when they have the Torah in which is Allah's judgement.@Arnab According to the following ayahs Al Kitab / The Book and Al Hukm / The Judgement were revealed to the Prophets and Messengers with a specific language.
A Revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;-
A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-MTR do you realize there is a difference between a noun with "al" and one without?
You state that Al-Kitab is given to the prophets and messengers in a specific language and then you quote 412-3 as support for this when 412-3 simply says Kitab.
NOT Al-Kitab.
So YES the Quran is in Arabic (a dialect of the Semitic Language) and it is in book form. But it is not the same as Al-Kitab.
Therefore 412-3 does not support your argument.
Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic / anzalnahu HUKMan AAarabiyyan. Were you to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which has reached you, then wouldst you find neither protector nor defender against Allah.
Again, you are reading this out of context
1336
And those to whom We have previously given the Scripture rejoice at what has been sent down to you, but there are some of the groups that reject parts of it. Say "I am only ordered to serve God and not join any partner with Him. To Him I implore and to Him is the return."
1337
And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment in Arabic, and if you follow their low desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you shall not have against Allah any guardian or a protector.
Yes, there is judgement in Arabic, a dialect of the Semitic Language. )
hukman not AL-hukm, once again you're confused an indefinite article for the definite.
@Arnab....What language did Allah reveal Al Kitab / The Book and The Judgement / Al Hukm?
I await your response to THIS question
IF what you are claiming is correct That Al Kitab is ONLY in Arabic (and only Arabic as a seperate individual language that is not connected with the other Semitic Languages). Then that would mean that everyone in the world spoke Arabic. Because we know from 1636 and 3524 that a messenger was sent to every nation.
So, since I know that this is not true because there are many other languages in different nations. I would not commit to any specific language as an answer.
1636
And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.
3524
Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner; and there is not a people but a warner has gone among them.
My previous posts revealed the mistakes in this logic and thoroughly proved that your position is not only implausible but also a misunderstanding of the text.
Salam,
Arnab - in its entirety
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Assalaam Aalikum @Arnab...
Thank you for addressing the question.
I found this reference somewhat amusing
"DISCLAIMER No translation is entirely accurate. The translations are only used to make a general point. As always, please read the verses in Arabic."
Then you stuck 'TORAH' in every Quranic reference you posted, yet in the Arabic of the ayahs you posted its 'Al Tawrat'.
Even your own disclaimer negates your position!!
Intelligent, sincere people know that 'Torah' is a Hebrew term NOT a Quranic Arabic term.
@Arnab....
Again you are off point...No one is making ANY implication that the 'entire world is speaking Arabic'
Remember, we are discussing Quranan Arrabbiyyan NOT 'Semetic' languages or identifying who the 'Jews' are.....
What we have identified is that the guidance of Al Kitab and its relevant attributes has a language of its own and that language is NOT 'Hebrew', 'semetic' or 'dialectical'.
Which further confirms that the 'Torah' is NOT embodied within ANY of the attributes 'revealed' from Allah.
Now lets review your grammatical analysis of the ayahs in reference.....
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Assalaam Alaikum @Arnab
Lets take a look at your grammatical analysis; one at a time..
@Arnab your statement..."MTR do you realize there is a difference between a noun with "al" and one without?
You state that Al-Kitab is given to the prophets and messengers in a specific language and then you quote 412-3 as support for this when 412-3 simply says Kitab.
NOT Al-Kitab.
So YES the Quran is in Arabic (a dialect of the Semitic Language) and it is in book form. But it is not the same as Al-Kitab.
Therefore 412-3 does not support your argument."@Arnab....
Quranan Arabiyyan is NOT a 'dialect Arnab. No one is 'speaking' the Quran. Let it go!
A Revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;-
Tanzeelun mina alrrahmani ar-raheemi
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 begins with a Verbal Noun / Masdar "Tanzeelun' / Revelation the 'doer' of this verb (tanzeel) is Al Rahman, Ar Raheem.
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 ends in kesra, which denotes continuation
Thus Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 is a Verbal Sentence that continues to Ha Mim Sajdah 41.3
So far we have the verbal noun (tanzeel) in a Verbal Sentence in Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 and the 'doer' of the verb (tanzeel) is Al-Rahman, Ar-Raheem continuing to influence or 'reveal' something......what is this 'something?
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.3 begins with a (singular) verbal noun also "Kitabun", but its preceded by the DEFINITE Noun Ar-Raheem, 'Kitabun' now becomes definite!
A Book / Kitabun, whereof the signs / ayatuhu are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic / quranan AAarabiyyan, for people who understand;-
Kitabun fussilat ayatuhu quranan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoona
By the way, 'Kitabun' is followed by the 'Perfect Passive' verb 'Fussilat' / Detailed
Thus 'Kitabun' is Definite, those who are sincere and honest can perceive that Allah is revealing the 'Al Kitab' in the quranan arabbiyyan.
I await your response to THIS grammatical analysis
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Assalaam Alaikum @Arnab...
Can you assist me in confirming this reference please
@Arnab...your statement and reference...."1336
And those to whom We have previously given the Scripture rejoice at what has been sent down to you, but there are some of the groups that reject parts of it. Say "I am only ordered to serve God and not join any partner with Him. To Him I implore and to Him is the return."
@Arnab....
Can you please show me in the Arabic, where it reflects "those to whom We have previously given the Scripture"?
I await your response to THIS question.
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Peace to you Muslimtruthrevealed,
You wrote
So far we have the verbal noun (tanzeel) in a Verbal Sentence in Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 and the 'doer' of the verb (tanzeel) is Al-Rahman, Ar-Raheem continuing to influence or 'reveal' something......what is this 'something?Ha Mim Sajdah 41.3 begins with a (singular) verbal noun also "Kitabun", but its preceded by the DEFINITE Noun Ar-Raheem, 'Kitabun' now becomes definite!
Sir, I'm afraid I don't understand how this 'becomes definite'? If it is by the grammar rules of Arabic, would you mind please pointing me to the reference which you use to make such a deduction?
I'm of the view that if the Quran meant it was 'al-kitaab', it would be stated as such. After all, the author is God and he's not limited by any use of the language. Please correct me if i'm wrong sir.
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Peace to you Muslimtruthrevealed,
Sir, I'm afraid I don't understand how this 'becomes definite'? If it is by the grammar rules of Arabic, would you mind please pointing me to the reference which you use to make such a deduction?
I'm of the view that if the Quran meant it was 'al-kitaab', it would be stated as such. After all, the author is God and he's not limited by any use of the language. Please correct me if i'm wrong sir.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE and as such is
Al Kitab
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Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE and as such is
Al Kitab
Since when does the mudaf rule work across SENTENCES? Can you provide a reference to a book which claims it does so because my Arabic teacher says it doesn't. I've even checked Mohamed Mohar Ali's JIMAS Quranic Study which also doesn't claim as such. But even if this was the case, then the word would be 'al-kitaab' not by understanding but by actual wording.
So again, can you please provide a reference that this rule works across sentences. If it does, why have sentences to begin with?
many thanks for your time.
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Assalaam Aalikum @Arnab...
Thank you for addressing the question.
I found this reference somewhat amusing
"DISCLAIMER No translation is entirely accurate. The translations are only used to make a general point. As always, please read the verses in Arabic."
Then you stuck 'TORAH' in every Quranic reference you posted, yet in the Arabic of the ayahs you posted its 'Al Tawrat'.
Even your own disclaimer negates your position!!
Intelligent, sincere people know that 'Torah' is a Hebrew term NOT a Quranic Arabic term.
Intelligent people who claim to read in Arabic will look at the Arabic and realize as I stated above that the no translation is entirely accurate. And Torah has the same meaning in Hebrew as in Arabic.
@Arnab....
Again you are off point...No one is making ANY implication that the 'entire world is speaking Arabic'
I used an example to make a point. That you can not understand the point is not my concern.
Remember, we are discussing Quranan Arrabbiyyan NOT 'Semetic' languages or identifying who the 'Jews' are.....
What we have identified is that the guidance of Al Kitab and its relevant attributes has a language of its own and that language is NOT 'Hebrew', 'semetic' or 'dialectical'.
Well perhaps you need to inform the Linguistic, Archeological, and Historical communities of this so called fact. And may I remind you that IF you have not studied the Semitic Dialects HOW can you make that statement and claim it is fact. You are claiming something that
- you have no direct knowledge of
- that is utterly false.
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 begins with a Verbal Noun / Masdar "Tanzeelun' / Revelation the 'doer' of this verb (tanzeel) is Al Rahman, Ar Raheem.
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 ends in kesra, which denotes continuation
Thus Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 is a Verbal Sentence that continues to Ha Mim Sajdah 41.3
So far we have the verbal noun (tanzeel) in a Verbal Sentence in Ha Mim Sajdah 41.2 and the 'doer' of the verb (tanzeel) is Al-Rahman, Ar-Raheem continuing to influence or 'reveal' something......what is this 'something?
Ha Mim Sajdah 41.3 begins with a (singular) verbal noun also "Kitabun", but its preceded by the DEFINITE Noun Ar-Raheem, 'Kitabun' now becomes definite!
BECOMES definite? By what ruling does this 'become definite' please? So now you are claiming that the Quran is grammatically incorrect?
Interesting...By the way, 'Kitabun' is followed by the 'Perfect Passive' verb 'Fussilat' / Detailed
Thus 'Kitabun' is Definite, those who are sincere and honest can perceive that Allah is revealing the 'Al Kitab' in the quranan arabbiyyan.
Really? So you are stating that Allah mentions kitaabun but REALLY means Al-kitab....hmmm
So to you... the Quran has a mistake in it?
@Arnab your statement..."MTR do you realize there is a difference between a noun with "al" and one without?
You state that Al-Kitab is given to the prophets and messengers in a specific language and then you quote 412-3 as support for this when 412-3 simply says Kitab.
NOT Al-Kitab.
So YES the Quran is in Arabic (a dialect of the Semitic Language) and it is in book form. But it is not the same as Al-Kitab.
Therefore 412-3 does not support your argument."@Arnab....
Quranan Arabiyyan is NOT a 'dialect Arnab. No one is 'speaking' the Quran.
No one speaks the Quran??? really??? well that's contrary to the many verses that state QUL (which would indicate a person should SAY something) and the fact that the word Quran literally means
= Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.
(This definition is courtesy of Project Root List)Can you assist me in confirming this reference please
@Arnab...your statement and reference...."1336
And those to whom We have previously given the Scripture rejoice at what has been sent down to you, but there are some of the groups that reject parts of it. Say "I am only ordered to serve God and not join any partner with Him. To Him I implore and to Him is the return."
@Arnab....
Can you please show me in the Arabic, where it reflects "those to whom We have previously given the Scripture"?
Again MTR that disclaimer that you found amusing was placed in my reply so that it would be understood that I willingly acknowledge that the English translations are inaccurate.
However you are ignoring this, not acknowledging where I proved you wrong, and willingly admitting that you won't read some of my replies. This shows me that you are more interested in voicing your uneducated opinion rather than having a dignified discussion.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace to you Muslimtruthrevealed,
Sir, I'm afraid I don't understand how this 'becomes definite'? If it is by the grammar rules of Arabic, would you mind please pointing me to the reference which you use to make such a deduction?
I'm of the view that if the Quran meant it was 'al-kitaab', it would be stated as such. After all, the author is God and he's not limited by any use of the language. Please correct me if i'm wrong sir.
Assalaam Alaikum
Well Im 'afraid' that you have NOT reflected upon any serious study of Quranic Arabic. Just do a cursory reflection upon those ayahs that end with a Definite Noun with Kesra, which denotes Genitive / Possesive Case.
Excuse me, in addition the 'numerical' references of the ayahs of the Quran are NOT designations relevant to the actual revelation.
When you hear a recitation, do you hear the hafiz recite the sura and ayah number for each ayah they recite?
Thus your statement "across sentences' has no relevance.
I have given you the grammatical rule, and obviously you dont accept it. Thus the burden of proof and/or 'acceptance' is upon you.
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Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about, and love to be praised for what they have NOT done,- think escape the penalty. For them is a penalty Grievous indeed.
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Well Im 'afraid' that you have NOT reflected upon any serious study of Quranic Arabic. Just do a cursory reflection upon those ayahs that end with a Definite Noun with Kesra, which denotes Genitive / Possesive Case.
Wow brother, that's so right. Why didn't I think of that before. After all, I've only read Muhammad Mohar Ali's ayah by ayah grammatical study and being a former professor of Medina's Islamic University, I guess he could have easily conned everyone and got away with it.
Can you, for the second time asking, provide me with the source of your grammatical knowledge please? This 'serious study of Quranic Arabic' which you must have. I have access to the biggest Islamic studies department in the UK and so can check the veracity of this 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'. I await your reference.
Excuse me, in addition the 'numerical' references of the ayahs of the Quran are NOT designations relevant to the actual revelation.
When you hear a recitation, do you hear the hafiz recite the sura and ayah number for each ayah they recite?
Thus your statement "across sentences' has no relevance.
Ah I see. So the orality of the Quran is now our criteria? Brilliant sir, brilliant.
But may I ask you, what if the haafiz STOPS at '41/2'? We have a few huffaz here and none of them proceed to 41/3, stopping at 'raheem'. As far as the rules of tajweed go, no sane qaari would say 'ar-rahmaan ar-raheeMEE' if he stops at 41/2. He would stop at 'raheem'. Should we then ignore the kasrah thus nullifying your 'kasrah without borders' rule (I say 'your rule' because you have not yet thus far provided a reference) ?
I have given you the grammatical rule, and obviously you dont accept it. Thus the burden of proof and/or 'acceptance' is upon you
Sir , if I may presume to share with you, the 'burden of proof' is for one who has made an assertion. Your assertion that 'kitaab' actually means 'al-kitaab' puts the burden of proof squarely on your shoulders.
You have given me an ASSERTION of how to understand the word 'kitaab' in 41/3. You have NOT
- Told us what your reference for this grammatical rule is
- Told us why your reference is a 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'
- Told us why my reference isn't a 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'
- Told us why Allah did realise this problem and said 'al-kitaab' instead of kitaab.
I await for your answers to these questions. Many many thanks for your help here.
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Assalaam Alaikum...'Sir'....
Again I dont engage in 'personal issues', nor do I participate in 'quiz shows'. Unfortunately, Im not qualified to address psycho-social issues.
I gave you the grammatical rule and context. If you dont wish to realize that 'Kitabun' in Sura 41.3 is definite as a result of the genitive possession determined by Ar-Raheem-i (with kesra ending), thats your choice.
Perhaps with all of your illustrious background and vast resources, would you please share with the audience why you do NOT accept that 'Kitabun' is definite and NOT part of the Genitive Case.
- From a Grammatical position please, Your 'personal opinion' at this point has no value for me intellectually speaking*
I await your response.
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Again I dont engage in 'personal issues', nor do I participate in 'quiz shows'. Unfortunately, Im not qualified to address psycho-social issues.
Nor qualified to address anything about any 'serious study of Quranic Arabic' it seems, lol. It's funny how you can level questions at other people but unable to take them yourself. I'm also quite stunned that you cannot name the source where you got your 'kasra across borders' rule. I just checked today from school and it turns out that your rule is just your personal made-up thing. No evidence in the study of nahw at all.
I gave you the grammatical rule and context. If you dont wish to realize that 'Kitabun' in Sura 41.3 is definite as a result of the genitive possession determined by Ar-Raheem-i (with kesra ending), thats your choice.
I guess I'm just not on your level where I can correct God's choice in calling it 'kitaab'. You must be on par with the Sunni imams who interpret 'obey the messenger' so as to suggest God was deficient in his explanation. Congratulations.
Perhaps with all of your illustrious background and vast resources, would you please share with the audience why you do NOT accept that 'Kitabun' is definite and NOT part of the Genitive Case.
- From a Grammatical position please, Your 'personal opinion' at this point has no value for me intellectually speaking*
From A grammatical position? Grammar positions don't drop from the sky, MTR. They are formulated by human beings. So like I have my source of grammar , you have yours. I will name mine
My source is Prof Mohamed Mohar Ali from Medina Islamic University who authored the word for word Quran study and today, the lecturer of Quran and Hadith Studies in the University of London had to be given 5 minutes to digest your opinion after which he stared in disbelief at me and said 'in that case, the word would have been 'al-kitaab'.
So now I have quoted my grammatical position. Kindly name yours. Your personal opinion has an equal value to me as mine has to yours. So hopefully we can see where you get these wonderful grammar rules of yours. Name of book and author will be good, thanks )
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Again, Im not qualified to address your 'personal' sentiment regarding myself or others.
By the way, Tajweed and Grammatical Morphology are TWO distinct linguistic processes.
The focus here is Grammatical Morphology as it relates to Sura 412 - 3, from the language of Quranan Arrabiyyan.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE.
Sura 412 Begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Tanzeelun', thus its a verbal sentence, Sura 413 Also, begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Kitabun', thus a continuation of the verbal sentence construct, confirmed by the Genitive Case in Sura 41.2.
Now, again can you suggest any grammatical rule that will refute or negate my understanding of the Genitive Case as it relates to Sura 412 - 3?
I await your response to THIS request.
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Again, Im not qualified to address your 'personal' sentiment regarding myself or others.
By the way, Tajweed and Grammatical Morphology are TWO distinct linguistic processes.
The focus here is Grammatical Morphology as it relates to Sura 412 - 3, from the language of Quranan Arrabiyyan.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE.
Sura 412 Begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Tanzeelun', thus its a verbal sentence, Sura 413 Also, begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Kitabun', thus a continuation of the verbal sentence construct, confirmed by the Genitive Case in Sura 41.2.
Now, again can you suggest any grammatical rule that will refute or negate my understanding of the Genitive Case as it relates to Sura 412 - 3?
I await your response to THIS request.
Salam,
The simple facts remain MTR
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You believe that the grammatical rules constructed by someone born over a thousand years after the Quran was recieved is superior to the Quran itself.
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You believe the Quran contains an ERROR.
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You believe the Quran is incomplete (missing an Alif and a Lam)
Salam,
Arnab -