what is AL KITAB ?
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Peace to you Muslimtruthrevealed,
Sir, I'm afraid I don't understand how this 'becomes definite'? If it is by the grammar rules of Arabic, would you mind please pointing me to the reference which you use to make such a deduction?
I'm of the view that if the Quran meant it was 'al-kitaab', it would be stated as such. After all, the author is God and he's not limited by any use of the language. Please correct me if i'm wrong sir.
Assalaam Alaikum
Well Im 'afraid' that you have NOT reflected upon any serious study of Quranic Arabic. Just do a cursory reflection upon those ayahs that end with a Definite Noun with Kesra, which denotes Genitive / Possesive Case.
Excuse me, in addition the 'numerical' references of the ayahs of the Quran are NOT designations relevant to the actual revelation.
When you hear a recitation, do you hear the hafiz recite the sura and ayah number for each ayah they recite?
Thus your statement "across sentences' has no relevance.
I have given you the grammatical rule, and obviously you dont accept it. Thus the burden of proof and/or 'acceptance' is upon you.
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Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about, and love to be praised for what they have NOT done,- think escape the penalty. For them is a penalty Grievous indeed.
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Well Im 'afraid' that you have NOT reflected upon any serious study of Quranic Arabic. Just do a cursory reflection upon those ayahs that end with a Definite Noun with Kesra, which denotes Genitive / Possesive Case.
Wow brother, that's so right. Why didn't I think of that before. After all, I've only read Muhammad Mohar Ali's ayah by ayah grammatical study and being a former professor of Medina's Islamic University, I guess he could have easily conned everyone and got away with it.
Can you, for the second time asking, provide me with the source of your grammatical knowledge please? This 'serious study of Quranic Arabic' which you must have. I have access to the biggest Islamic studies department in the UK and so can check the veracity of this 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'. I await your reference.
Excuse me, in addition the 'numerical' references of the ayahs of the Quran are NOT designations relevant to the actual revelation.
When you hear a recitation, do you hear the hafiz recite the sura and ayah number for each ayah they recite?
Thus your statement "across sentences' has no relevance.
Ah I see. So the orality of the Quran is now our criteria? Brilliant sir, brilliant.
But may I ask you, what if the haafiz STOPS at '41/2'? We have a few huffaz here and none of them proceed to 41/3, stopping at 'raheem'. As far as the rules of tajweed go, no sane qaari would say 'ar-rahmaan ar-raheeMEE' if he stops at 41/2. He would stop at 'raheem'. Should we then ignore the kasrah thus nullifying your 'kasrah without borders' rule (I say 'your rule' because you have not yet thus far provided a reference) ?
I have given you the grammatical rule, and obviously you dont accept it. Thus the burden of proof and/or 'acceptance' is upon you
Sir , if I may presume to share with you, the 'burden of proof' is for one who has made an assertion. Your assertion that 'kitaab' actually means 'al-kitaab' puts the burden of proof squarely on your shoulders.
You have given me an ASSERTION of how to understand the word 'kitaab' in 41/3. You have NOT
- Told us what your reference for this grammatical rule is
- Told us why your reference is a 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'
- Told us why my reference isn't a 'serious study of Quranic Arabic'
- Told us why Allah did realise this problem and said 'al-kitaab' instead of kitaab.
I await for your answers to these questions. Many many thanks for your help here.
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Assalaam Alaikum...'Sir'....
Again I dont engage in 'personal issues', nor do I participate in 'quiz shows'. Unfortunately, Im not qualified to address psycho-social issues.
I gave you the grammatical rule and context. If you dont wish to realize that 'Kitabun' in Sura 41.3 is definite as a result of the genitive possession determined by Ar-Raheem-i (with kesra ending), thats your choice.
Perhaps with all of your illustrious background and vast resources, would you please share with the audience why you do NOT accept that 'Kitabun' is definite and NOT part of the Genitive Case.
- From a Grammatical position please, Your 'personal opinion' at this point has no value for me intellectually speaking*
I await your response.
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Again I dont engage in 'personal issues', nor do I participate in 'quiz shows'. Unfortunately, Im not qualified to address psycho-social issues.
Nor qualified to address anything about any 'serious study of Quranic Arabic' it seems, lol. It's funny how you can level questions at other people but unable to take them yourself. I'm also quite stunned that you cannot name the source where you got your 'kasra across borders' rule. I just checked today from school and it turns out that your rule is just your personal made-up thing. No evidence in the study of nahw at all.
I gave you the grammatical rule and context. If you dont wish to realize that 'Kitabun' in Sura 41.3 is definite as a result of the genitive possession determined by Ar-Raheem-i (with kesra ending), thats your choice.
I guess I'm just not on your level where I can correct God's choice in calling it 'kitaab'. You must be on par with the Sunni imams who interpret 'obey the messenger' so as to suggest God was deficient in his explanation. Congratulations.
Perhaps with all of your illustrious background and vast resources, would you please share with the audience why you do NOT accept that 'Kitabun' is definite and NOT part of the Genitive Case.
- From a Grammatical position please, Your 'personal opinion' at this point has no value for me intellectually speaking*
From A grammatical position? Grammar positions don't drop from the sky, MTR. They are formulated by human beings. So like I have my source of grammar , you have yours. I will name mine
My source is Prof Mohamed Mohar Ali from Medina Islamic University who authored the word for word Quran study and today, the lecturer of Quran and Hadith Studies in the University of London had to be given 5 minutes to digest your opinion after which he stared in disbelief at me and said 'in that case, the word would have been 'al-kitaab'.
So now I have quoted my grammatical position. Kindly name yours. Your personal opinion has an equal value to me as mine has to yours. So hopefully we can see where you get these wonderful grammar rules of yours. Name of book and author will be good, thanks )
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Again, Im not qualified to address your 'personal' sentiment regarding myself or others.
By the way, Tajweed and Grammatical Morphology are TWO distinct linguistic processes.
The focus here is Grammatical Morphology as it relates to Sura 412 - 3, from the language of Quranan Arrabiyyan.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE.
Sura 412 Begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Tanzeelun', thus its a verbal sentence, Sura 413 Also, begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Kitabun', thus a continuation of the verbal sentence construct, confirmed by the Genitive Case in Sura 41.2.
Now, again can you suggest any grammatical rule that will refute or negate my understanding of the Genitive Case as it relates to Sura 412 - 3?
I await your response to THIS request.
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Again, Im not qualified to address your 'personal' sentiment regarding myself or others.
By the way, Tajweed and Grammatical Morphology are TWO distinct linguistic processes.
The focus here is Grammatical Morphology as it relates to Sura 412 - 3, from the language of Quranan Arrabiyyan.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE.
Sura 412 Begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Tanzeelun', thus its a verbal sentence, Sura 413 Also, begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Kitabun', thus a continuation of the verbal sentence construct, confirmed by the Genitive Case in Sura 41.2.
Now, again can you suggest any grammatical rule that will refute or negate my understanding of the Genitive Case as it relates to Sura 412 - 3?
I await your response to THIS request.
Salam,
The simple facts remain MTR
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You believe that the grammatical rules constructed by someone born over a thousand years after the Quran was recieved is superior to the Quran itself.
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You believe the Quran contains an ERROR.
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You believe the Quran is incomplete (missing an Alif and a Lam)
Salam,
Arnab -
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Assalaam Alaikum
We did reveal to Moses the Book / Al Kitab after We had destroyed the earlier generations, (to give) Insight to men, and guidance and Mercy, that they might receive admonition.
But they wrote other books.....
and lest they say , when disaster befalls them as an outcome of what their own hands have wrought (creation of Torah), ?O our Sustainer, if only Thou had sent an apostle unto us, we would have followed Thy messages, and would have been among those who believe!?
Allah speaks to those who claim that Muusa,as received something called 'Torah'
? When the truth came to them from OUR nearness , they said? why is not given similar as that was given to MOOSA/MOSES" and they are REJECTING what was given to MOOSA/MOSES from BEFORE.? They said ?these two are destroying falsehood with the truth by supporting and confirming each other / sihrani tathahara.? And they said ?surely we reject both of them.?
Allah sums up the creators of other books in this ayah....
? And they do not evaluate ALLAH as HIS true evaluation. When they said? ALLAH has not revealed on any human being from anything? Say ? Who has revealed AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, that MOOSA/MOSES came with it?? A light and guidance for mankind YOU HAVE MADE IT QARATISA/PAPERS (Torah, Talmud, Misnah, etc.), you make them appear good/convincing and you conceal the truth (of Al Kitab), although you have been taught things that neither you nor your forefathers had ever known" Say ?Allah has revealed then leave them in their vain, idle tale without purpose.?
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Again, Im not qualified to address your 'personal' sentiment regarding myself or others.
By the way, Tajweed and Grammatical Morphology are TWO distinct linguistic processes.
Ohhhhh, thanks for informing me of that. Is that part of the quiz?
The focus here is Grammatical Morphology as it relates to Sura 412 - 3, from the language of Quranan Arrabiyyan.
Possessive Case, In Arabic, the possessor is called the mudaf ilayh (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem), and the possessed is called the mudaf (Kitabun). The mudaf is definite (without alif-lam), and the mudaf ilayh is majruwr / genitive.
'Kitabun' is mudaf / possessed by the 'possesor / mudaf ilayhi mentioned in Sura 412 Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem, which both are DEFINITE, thus 'Kitabun', mentioned in Sura 413, the mudaf / possessed is DEFINITE.
Sura 412 Begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Tanzeelun', thus its a verbal sentence, Sura 413 Also, begins with the masdar / verbal noun 'Kitabun', thus a continuation of the verbal sentence construct, confirmed by the Genitive Case in Sura 41.2.
Thanks for repeating that. However you pegged your analysis to the huffaz's reading by saying 'Excuse me, in addition the 'numerical' references of the ayahs of the Quran are NOT designations relevant to the actual revelation.When you hear a recitation, do you hear the hafiz recite the sura and ayah number for each ayah they recite? So if the huffaz stop at 41/2, then your argument has no basis.
Now, again can you suggest any grammatical rule that will refute or negate my understanding of the Genitive Case as it relates to Sura 412 - 3?
I can't because grammatical rules stem FROM the quran. If you read 'Arabic Through the Quran' by Alan Jones, you will see that it was the Quran which first solidified the rules of Arabic grammar. Therefore, if the word is 'kitaab', it means 'kitaab'. It will only mean 'al-kitaab' through a non-quranic way of distorting the Quran. THAT is the real reason you refuse to name a source. It's sad that you would rely on such intellectually-bankrupt methods just to push your 'al-kitaab is in arabic' bunkum.
I await your response to THIS request.
Yes, because your the guy to respond to, never the guy to expect a response from. Have a read of 4/135 and understand what 'qawwamuna bil qist shuhada lillah WA LAW ALAA ANFUSIKUM'. Btw, its much more fun discussing with you here than in Paltalk. It's a lot easier to see here when you fail to deliver proof.
thanks.
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Assalaam Alaikum
Tawrat in Arabic means distinctly 'Law'. Linguistically, 'Tawrat' has the Arabic phonetic sound 'ta' and is spelled
What is the Hebrew word 'Torah'? "Torah' begins with 'tet' which is equivalent to the Arabic letter 'tah' as in may be mistaken
The word "Torah" in Hebrew "is derived from the root which in the hifil conjugation means "to teach" (cf. Lev. 1011). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression."
Rabinowitz, Louis Isaac and Harvey, Warren. "Torah." Encyclopaedia Judaica. Ed. Michael Berenbaum and Fred Skolnik. Vol. 20. 2nd ed. Detroit Macmillan Reference USA, 2007.
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MTR
Tawrat in Arabic means distinctly 'Law'. Linguistically, 'Tawrat' has the Arabic phonetic sound 'ta' and is spelledActually, even Taj al-Urus thinks that the root is 'waryun' therefore doesn't mean 'law'.
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Actually, even Taj al-Urus thinks that the root is 'waryun' therefore doesn't mean 'law'.
This is what Allah states......
Sura 544 Inna anzalna al-tawrata feeha hudan wa noorun
Verbal Sentence denoted by 'anzalna / we send / I send it' mubtada / Subject = Al Tawrat contains Nominative / verbal nouns (hudan / directives, guidance wa noorun / light) all in / feeha the Tawrat
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Assalaam Alaikum
Considering what Allah has stated about those who wrote the Torah, Talmud, Misnah and various other volumes of books to falsify the guidance....
The similitude of those who were charged with the obligations / hummiloo of the Tawrat/Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of A DONKEY / Alhimari WHICH CARRIES HUGE BOOKS / yahmilu asfaran (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
The Torah, Talmud, Misnah and all the other volumes of books do NOT reflect the guidance of Allah
Say. "O you that stand on Hadoo! If you think that you are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if you are truthful!"
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Assalaam Alaikum
Confirming that Al Kitab was revealed in the Arabic of Quran to Muusa,as.....
? And it is a BOOK OF MOOSA/MOSES from before. A leader and mercy and this KITAB/BOOK is confirming the Arabic Language, so as to warn those who are oppressors and a good news for those who are good doers.
Wa min qablihi kitabu moosa imaman wa rahmatan wa Haa-dthaa kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan li yunthira allatheena thalamoo wa bushra lil muhsineena
Haa-dthaa means ?this? ; Badal / ismul-ishaarah / Demonstrative Pronoun;
masdar / verbal noun = kitabun
Nominative (kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan)Mubtada >> kitabu moosa > khabr = (imaman wa rahmatan) wa Haa-dthaa >>> (Kitabun
Musaddiqun)Kitabun is assuming the case of Haa-dthaa
The Kitabu Moosa 'attributes' are Imaman, Rahmatan and kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan (confirmation of the Truth in Arabic)
Further confirmation that Muusa, as conveyed and understood the guidance through the Arabic of Quran.....
And We inspired to Moosa / Moses and his brother that you appoint for your people houses in Egypt / Misra and make your people houses a Qiblah And establish SALAH / PRAYER and give good news to the believers.
Misra to build or appoint, boundaries and limits of a city between two things or places, CITY OR PROVINCE where the ordinances of Allah are termed or executed ; Root word masara;Lanes Lexicon part 7 page 2719 (masr)
In order to ESTABLISH salat, Allah has ordered the Believer to recite from Al Kitab
? Recite what is inspired to you from The Book / Al Kitab and establish SALAH / PRAYER. Surely SALAH / PRAYER stops from obscenity and that which is disguised. and definitely remembrance of Allah is great. And Allah knows what you fabricate.
Allah has revealed.....
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Assalaam Alaikum
Confirming that Al Kitab was revealed in the Arabic of Quran to Muusa,as.....
? And it is a BOOK OF MOOSA/MOSES from before. A leader and mercy and this KITAB/BOOK is confirming the Arabic Language, so as to warn those who are oppressors and a good news for those who are good doers.
Wa min qablihi kitabu moosa imaman wa rahmatan wa Haa-dthaa kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan li yunthira allatheena thalamoo wa bushra lil muhsineena
Haa-dthaa means ?this? ; Badal / ismul-ishaarah / Demonstrative Pronoun;
masdar / verbal noun = kitabun
Nominative (kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan)Mubtada >> kitabu moosa > khabr = (imaman wa rahmatan) wa Haa-dthaa >>> (Kitabun
Musaddiqun)Kitabun is assuming the case of Haa-dthaa
The Kitabu Moosa 'attributes' are Imaman, Rahmatan and kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan (confirmation of the Truth in Arabic)
Further confirmation that Muusa, as conveyed and understood the guidance through the Arabic of Quran.....
And We inspired to Moosa / Moses and his brother that you appoint for your people houses in Egypt / Misra and make your people houses a Qiblah And establish SALAH / PRAYER and give good news to the believers.
Misra to build or appoint, boundaries and limits of a city between two things or places, CITY OR PROVINCE where the ordinances of Allah are termed or executed ; Root word masara;Lanes Lexicon part 7 page 2719 (masr)
In order to ESTABLISH salat, Allah has ordered the Believer to recite from Al Kitab
? Recite what is inspired to you from The Book / Al Kitab and establish SALAH / PRAYER. Surely SALAH / PRAYER stops from obscenity and that which is disguised. and definitely remembrance of Allah is great. And Allah knows what you fabricate.
Allah has revealed.....
Sorry Br.
http//www.crystalinks.com/egyptlanguage.html
Arabic gradually replaced spoken Coptic after the Arabian invasion in the seventh century, though Arabic was the language of the Muslim political administration soon thereafter.
The quran is the most mistranslated book i have seen- according to my understanding.
However when correctly translated it is brillient.
No disrespects meant.
God Bless All.
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Assalaam Alaikum....
Check this out, then lets talk......
Allah in Nubia Download here http//www.zshare.net/video/1195853f71a1d3/
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE Allah / laHu?"
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Assalaam Alaikum....
Check this out, then lets talk......
Allah in Nubia Download here http//www.zshare.net/video/1195853f71a1d3/
"Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY WHO IS WORTHY OF THE SAME NAME AS HE Allah / laHu?"
nothing there Br!
what were we supposed to see?