Is the Black stone god Shiva?
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Peace mmKhan,
Are we talking about 'a cube' and 'a base' OR 'a cube' and 'ITS base'? You see what I mean?
Which side of the cube is its base? The answer is any side. So a cube is a shape with bases all around. This is why it is called "muka3ab".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace all,
After reading Br Aymans article posted in a link earlier in this thread and viewing the pics added, I must confess that the blackstone looks like a babyhead coming out from a vagina and the cube itself is a body of the female godess.
I cannot believe I have adhere to this nonsense of the so called traditional islam before.
But in fact I were never keen to go for hajj even while I was a sunni follower, I had my doubts even back then and of course the panic of all the crowds of people gathering at same place, not a peaceful place in my thoughts nope.
Maria
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SwedenMajidah - Very sad those that have been trampled to death in the past.
Indeed, very sad for them (
Peace
Maria -
Peace all,
After reading Br Aymans article posted in a link earlier in this thread and viewing the pics added, I must confess that the blackstone looks like a babyhead coming out from a vagina and the cube itself is a body of the female godess.
I cannot believe I have adhere to this nonsense of the so called traditional islam before.
But in fact I were never keen to go for hajj even while I was a sunni follower, I had my doubts even back then and of course the panic of all the crowds of people gathering at same place, not a peaceful place in my thoughts nope.
Maria
Is there any other Kabaa like this? or another temple that fits the same description through history?
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Peace,
Really I don't know. But in hinduism temples and godesses are common.
Maria
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_the_Devil
Al-Hajarul Aswad
The "Black Stone", a remainder of the original Ka'ba.It is a stone from Paradise.
The ONLY reason to kiss the black-stone is that our beloved Prophet Muhammad kissed it. It has NO special powers it is NOT worshipped by Muslims.
"Istilaam" means to place both palms on the Black Stone and to kiss it three times gently without a smack.
Muslims do NOT worship the black stone.
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http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_the_Devil
Al-Hajarul Aswad
The "Black Stone", a remainder of the original Ka'ba.It is a stone from Paradise.
The ONLY reason to kiss the black-stone is that our beloved Prophet Muhammad kissed it. It has NO special powers it is NOT worshipped by Muslims.
"Istilaam" means to place both palms on the Black Stone and to kiss it three times gently without a smack.
Muslims do NOT worship the black stone.
Hehe of course they will not admit that they worship it then their so called fake religion will be revealed yes
But all sane people who aren't brainwashed they clearly must see this ritual as idolworshipping, because where is Allah in all this !?
Maria
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Peace,
but if you look at it from there perspective. it actually isnt worship.
I mean when God told the angels to postrate to Adam were they worshiping Adam? nooo..
they were obeying God's command.
So I can see that the same way. the only reason why they do this is because they belive there obeying a command of God.Peace
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Peace,
but if you look at it from there perspective. it actually isnt worship.
I mean when God told the angels to postrate to Adam were they worshiping Adam? nooo..
they were obeying God's command.
So I can see that the same way. the only reason why they do this is because they belive there obeying a command of God.Peace
sorry brothers they never said they are obeying the command of God But they claim one hadith related to ummar that he saw Mohammed doing it.
Just read this artical if you dont beieve me.
http//forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=30880hail
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Peace,
Yes and the reason why they emulate the Prophet is....
C'mon you know the answer for yourself.
They belive the Prophet did these things and belive the Quran tells them to follow his example through the Hadith.
It makes sense why they do it.
And it also makes sense why we dont do it.
Because it isnt directly in the Quran.
And the Hadith was written almost 200 years after the Prophets death. but it could have very well been practiced during his life. but the point is that The Quran doesnt have it in detail. while God said he explains things in detail for a people who know. So the Quran is detailed. meaning that we dont need the Hadith.Peace
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Peace,
Yes and the reason why they emulate the Prophet is....
C'mon you know the answer for yourself.
They belive the Prophet did these things and belive the Quran tells them to follow his example through the Hadith.
It makes sense why they do it.
And it also makes sense why we dont do it.
Because it isnt directly in the Quran.
And the Hadith was written almost 200 years after the Prophets death. but it could have very well been practiced during his life. but the point is that The Quran doesnt have it in detail. while God said he explains things in detail for a people who know. So the Quran is detailed. meaning that we dont need the Hadith.Peace
Peace brother
But I cannot digest this may be your digestive system better than me )The Black Stone of the Ka?bah dates back before the creation of humankind. The black stone is a revered object set in a corner wall of the Ka?bah, a sanctuary Muslims believe to be the holiest place on Earth. The stone, haven been sundered, is composed of several pieces and fragments, bound together by a silver ligature. It is semicircular and measures about ten inches horizontally and twelve inches vertically.
A mysterious object of old and possible of extraterrestrial origin is revered today by Muslims around the world as being consummately holy, as coming from the Supreme Being, Allah, and as having been touched through the millennia by holy men from Abraham to Mohammed. This is Alhajar Al-Aswad, the Black Stone, and it is lodged in a wall of a sanctuary on grounds that are strictly forbidden to non-Muslims.
According to Islamic tradition, the stone came to Earth long ago from heaven, where numerous angels linked in a chain worshipped Allah by chanting and praying as they continually circled Al-baitul Ma?moor, the House meant for the worship of Allah by Angels, built under the throne of Allah. Allah wanted humankind to have a similar shrine from which to worship him, and he gave Adam a bright and pure white stone to bring to Earth from Paradise to set in the Ka?bah, the shrine he would build. The stone was called Alhajar Alsad, the happiest stone, because of all the stones in paradise it alone had been chosen for the Ka?bah.
As the centuries passed, the Ka?bah was frequently damaged by natural calamities and rebuilt by whichever Arab tribe held it as property at that particular time. Eventually it became a place of worship for Arab tribes from all over the region.
In the early seventh century a fire ravaged the Ka?bah, and the people rebuilt it this time with higher walls and the door several feet off the ground so sentinels could better regulate those who entered the house. But the Arab tribes, who had erected the sacred house jointly, disagreed about who should have the right to install the Black Stone. They decided to let the first person that entered the courtyard be the judge, to render a decision on who would have the right.
It happened to be that the first person to come from the outside was Mohammed. At this time Mohammed was not a prophet, but he did have a reputation of being a faithful, trustful young man. After hearing the problem, Mohammed wisely came up with a plan that would satisfy and honor all concerned. He placed a piece of cloth on the ground and set the Black Stone at the center. Then he asked each of the tribes to select a delegate to gather around the cloth. Together they lifted the cloth with the Black Stone off the ground and carried it to the Ka?bah, where Mohammed himself set the stone in place.
Mohammed?s outspokenness against idolatry stirred the rancor of the disbelieving tribes of Mecca. This rancor gradually grew to the point where the Prophet?s life was in danger, and in 622, on receipt of instruction from Allah, he migrated to Medina. His journey is called the Hegira, and the year 622 marks the start of the Muslim calendar.
With the spread of Islam came the eruption of battles, but eventually the people of Mecca, accepted the religion, believing that Mohammed was a prophet and the Koran, the Muslim sacred scriptures, the final revelations sent by Allah. The Ka?bah became the Muslim sanctuary, and the stone idols that had been placed inside were discarded. The Black Stone was left untouched.
The Black Stone is set about three feet from the ground into the exterior southeastern corner of the Ka?bah, a stone building shaped like a huge cube. It is the centuries-old tradition of Muslims to touch and kiss the stone because this was the prophet Mohammed?s practice. Muslims claim the Prophet taught that if one kissed the stone with conviction from the heart and walks around the Ka?bah praying to Allah, the stone will bear witness to one?s supplication on the Day of Judgment, when the stone will be given vision and the power to talk.
The Black Stone is set in a hole, so those wishing to touch or kiss it must insert their hand or face. The stone, which feels smooth and soothing, also has a pleasant fragrance, which it is said to have emitted since the time of Abraham.
Several feet in front of the Black Stone is the Zamzam well, which has an unusual provenance. While Abraham was away from his second wife, Hagar, and their newborn son, Ishmael. To visit his wife Sarah at Mecca, Hagar needed water, and she ran up and down between two mountains, Safa and Marwah, in extreme thirst, until the angel Gabriel hit the ground with his wings and brought forth a flow of clear water from under the feet of Ishmael. There seemed to be no man made source for this water, since no drilling had been done in the ground. Water still comes from the Zamzam well today, and Muslims believe it shall continue until the Day of Judgment.
From descriptions of its substance and color, modern Western scientists have agree that the Black Stone probably did not originate on this planet. But they surmise that rather than having been brought down by Adam from a celestial paradise, it is most likely a fragment of a meteor that fell to Earth uncounted years ago.
wow wow wow -
Peace,
I never said i belived in it.
I cant confirm it.
But i do understand why they think like it and they will continue because of not questioning the hadiths. it is a simple matter of not seeking the information. so we cant just complain about them like that and generalize them all. When i use to belive in all that stuff i never tried to analys if the hadith contridicted the quran or look in detail like i do now.
so its why I can see it there way. IT just helps not to poke fun or mock them.
The reason why im talking like this is to have a proper Character. And the belivers with Noah only mocked back. I dont see any sonni or shia in this room mocking at the Quran. do you?
Peace -
afridi220 - is that information in the Quran?
Why do you suppose Allah allowed his alter to be destroyed so often? Taken over by pagans?
nope That is in hadiths if you want to follow them i have no problem since you are answerable for your deeds.
peace
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Peace,
oh and i should also state the reason, otherwise it is just a negative comment on my part.
I don't do the things that the hadith reccomends because they say themselves that SUnnah is not Obligitory.(english is my source)
Just the 5 pillars are.
Also I havnt verified everything yet and 1736.
So I cant say that the Hadith are all lies because i have no knowlege of them being so yet.(english sources only)
I did read the arguments however i didnt read the Hadith in arabic so my points on the matter is baseless. (english hearsay)
Peace -
Peace brother
But I cannot digest this may be your digestive system better than me )The Black Stone of the Ka?bah dates back before the creation of humankind. The black stone is a revered object set in a corner wall of the Ka?bah, a sanctuary Muslims believe to be the holiest place on Earth. The stone, haven been sundered, is composed of several pieces and fragments, bound together by a silver ligature. It is semicircular and measures about ten inches horizontally and twelve inches vertically.
A mysterious object of old and possible of extraterrestrial origin is revered today by Muslims around the world as being consummately holy, as coming from the Supreme Being, Allah, and as having been touched through the millennia by holy men from Abraham to Mohammed. This is Alhajar Al-Aswad, the Black Stone, and it is lodged in a wall of a sanctuary on grounds that are strictly forbidden to non-Muslims.
According to Islamic tradition, the stone came to Earth long ago from heaven, where numerous angels linked in a chain worshipped Allah by chanting and praying as they continually circled Al-baitul Ma?moor, the House meant for the worship of Allah by Angels, built under the throne of Allah. Allah wanted humankind to have a similar shrine from which to worship him, and he gave Adam a bright and pure white stone to bring to Earth from Paradise to set in the Ka?bah, the shrine he would build. The stone was called Alhajar Alsad, the happiest stone, because of all the stones in paradise it alone had been chosen for the Ka?bah.
As the centuries passed, the Ka?bah was frequently damaged by natural calamities and rebuilt by whichever Arab tribe held it as property at that particular time. Eventually it became a place of worship for Arab tribes from all over the region.
In the early seventh century a fire ravaged the Ka?bah, and the people rebuilt it this time with higher walls and the door several feet off the ground so sentinels could better regulate those who entered the house. But the Arab tribes, who had erected the sacred house jointly, disagreed about who should have the right to install the Black Stone. They decided to let the first person that entered the courtyard be the judge, to render a decision on who would have the right.
It happened to be that the first person to come from the outside was Mohammed. At this time Mohammed was not a prophet, but he did have a reputation of being a faithful, trustful young man. After hearing the problem, Mohammed wisely came up with a plan that would satisfy and honor all concerned. He placed a piece of cloth on the ground and set the Black Stone at the center. Then he asked each of the tribes to select a delegate to gather around the cloth. Together they lifted the cloth with the Black Stone off the ground and carried it to the Ka?bah, where Mohammed himself set the stone in place.
Mohammed?s outspokenness against idolatry stirred the rancor of the disbelieving tribes of Mecca. This rancor gradually grew to the point where the Prophet?s life was in danger, and in 622, on receipt of instruction from Allah, he migrated to Medina. His journey is called the Hegira, and the year 622 marks the start of the Muslim calendar.
With the spread of Islam came the eruption of battles, but eventually the people of Mecca, accepted the religion, believing that Mohammed was a prophet and the Koran, the Muslim sacred scriptures, the final revelations sent by Allah. The Ka?bah became the Muslim sanctuary, and the stone idols that had been placed inside were discarded. The Black Stone was left untouched.
The Black Stone is set about three feet from the ground into the exterior southeastern corner of the Ka?bah, a stone building shaped like a huge cube. It is the centuries-old tradition of Muslims to touch and kiss the stone because this was the prophet Mohammed?s practice. Muslims claim the Prophet taught that if one kissed the stone with conviction from the heart and walks around the Ka?bah praying to Allah, the stone will bear witness to one?s supplication on the Day of Judgment, when the stone will be given vision and the power to talk.
The Black Stone is set in a hole, so those wishing to touch or kiss it must insert their hand or face. The stone, which feels smooth and soothing, also has a pleasant fragrance, which it is said to have emitted since the time of Abraham.
Several feet in front of the Black Stone is the Zamzam well, which has an unusual provenance. While Abraham was away from his second wife, Hagar, and their newborn son, Ishmael. To visit his wife Sarah at Mecca, Hagar needed water, and she ran up and down between two mountains, Safa and Marwah, in extreme thirst, until the angel Gabriel hit the ground with his wings and brought forth a flow of clear water from under the feet of Ishmael. There seemed to be no man made source for this water, since no drilling had been done in the ground. Water still comes from the Zamzam well today, and Muslims believe it shall continue until the Day of Judgment.
From descriptions of its substance and color, modern Western scientists have agree that the Black Stone probably did not originate on this planet. But they surmise that rather than having been brought down by Adam from a celestial paradise, it is most likely a fragment of a meteor that fell to Earth uncounted years ago.
wow wow wowPeace,
I don't believe in that story, it is too much fictions and Prophet Muhammad would never put up a stone like that ever, he disliked all idolworshipping same as prophet Ibrahim did.
But barmack is right, no need to mock them due to their beliefs.
I more blame myself how i could follow this before with convictions even if I had my doubts somewhere in my backspine hmm...Peace
Maria -
Peace,
Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say
597 God has made the foundation, the Sacred House(The Deen), a means of support for mankind, as also the holy month, the sacrificial offerings, and consecrated cattle, so that you may understand that known to God is all that is in the heavens and the earth, and God has knowledge of everything.
Also, where is kaaba/foundation connected with bowing? Masjid means place of prostration, which can be anywhere where people bow to God's laws, this includes your mind being masjid al-haram. Qibla means focus, so these verses refer to focus on implying God's laws in the land and your mind by my view.
2115 says God is everywhere, no particulair place is needed to direct ourselves too i believe. I do agree on facing the same direction, but this is already included with 4102, where it is ordered to stand with them.
Hajj is one of the most twisted conceptions in Islam. It refers to a debate between ALL the people of the world. Hajj literaly means debate and ?determination for a noble cause?.
Dr.Shabbir on Hajj
2196 (Peace cannot defend itself. Mankind has to guard it.) Therefore, observe the Hajj or Umrah Convention for Allah. If you are stranded, send in gifts that the congregation would utilize. Do not consider that by doing so you have relieved yourself of duty. Be with them at heart until the gifts have reached their destination. If someone is sick or has other compelling burdens denying him sending any contribution, then Abstinence for a few days at convenience, or an act of charity or fulfilling someone?s need shall be in order. If a person is present at the Convention but cannot afford to contribute, he should exercise Abstinence for a total number of ten days, three days there and seven days after coming home. This is for him whose folk do not live in the vicinity of the Convention. Be mindful of Allah, remembering the noble objective. And know that Allah's Law of Requital is strict in pursuing and grasping.
2197 The Convention shall take place in the months appointed for it and made well known to all. Whoever participates in the Convention shall refrain from sexual intimacy, slipping out of discipline and argumentation throughout Hajj. And whatever you accomplish for the good of mankind, Allah will acknowledge it. So make ample provision, yet the best provision is your good conduct. Be mindful of Me, O You of understanding!
There is still much to be researched. But i thought i would share it with you....
Peace bro...
Actually i have done some investigation lately and discovered that we are not suppose to walk nor run around any black stone which is according to what i have discovered, a fertility goddess of the old.
I hope God forgives me.