Number of wives?
-
Does it occur to anyone that if a passage in the Quran is this opaque, relying upon it for moral guidance in such a broad area of life could be unwise.
-
.
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Simple
I addressed the verse with supportive references on this thread page #2
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
"seems good to you " is NOT in the arabic
Nor does mathna, thulatha and ruba'a mean the cardinal numbers 2,3 and 4
Please review my posts.
After checking the dictionaries they do simply mean two's,three's, fours......
Alaho Hafiz.
-
Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed,
We are NOT on the same page...your off point....
baadu / after this is referring to the 'decree that ends 'excesses' in regards to women in Sura 3337....and
in the reference to the 'exclusive' right of the Messenger to marry women of his choosing
O those who believe in the Prophet! ....ANY BELIEVING WOMAN WHO DEDICATES HER SOUL TO THE PROPHET IF THE PROPHET WISHES TO WED HER;- THIS ONLY FOR YOU, AND NOT FOR (You) THE BELIEVERS / waimraatan muminatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in arada alnnabiyyu an yastankihaha/ khalisatan/ laka min dooni almumineena
Unfortunately, the English translation does NOT capture and reflect the context and meanings of the Arabic constructs.
You are correct, we are absolutely NOT on the same page and have no idea how you manage to read...
"O those who believe in the Prophet!"
Where is "O those who believe" in the verse or are you injecting your words in Quran?
3350
Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu
You, you the Prophet!INCONCLUSIVE to infer from inheritance verses.
The basic formula is 1 ? Parents ? Spouse/s = Children share
HUSBAND
412 And for you (plural) 1/2 what your (plural) spouses/wives left, if was/is not for them (female/plural) a child...WIVES
412...and for them (female/plural) the 1/4 from what you (plural) left, if was not for you (plural) a child...The case of multiple members is distribute share evenly amongst each member; e.g.
No children, 1 sister, 2 brothers
4176 ?and for him a sister, so for her half what he left
1 ? ? sister = ? brothers (1/4 for each brother)None have yet addressed the case of the two sisters which is under general prohibition for all...
422-23 And do not marry what your fathers married from the women, except what had preceded/passed, that it was an enormous/atrocious deed, and abhorrence/hateful, and (it is an) evil way/path. Your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your paternal aunts, and your maternal aunts, and the brothers' daughters (nieces), and the sisters' daughters (nieces), and your mothers who breast fed you, and your sisters from the breast feeding, and your women's (wives' mothers (mothers in-law), and your step- daughters who (are) in your custody from your women (wives) whom you entered with them, are forbidden on you, so if you were not entered with them, so no offense/sin on you, and (also forbidden on you are) your sons' allowed/permitted women (wives) whom (are) from your backbones/genealogical relations, and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded, that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Of those things which have preceded, the exceptions moving forward are made clear above.
This is similar to marrying cousins which some cultures find appalling; not prohibited in Quran nor condoned and left as a matter of choice amongst participants. We are in no position to critique other peoples choices of who to marry -- it is their choice of lifestyle if they choose to live it as such.
-
After checking the dictionaries they do simply mean two's,three's, fours......
Alaho Hafiz.
Sure they do.....
Can you please give which dictionary you have that suggests mathna, thulatha and rubaa'a are ordinal numbers 2,3 & 4?
-
Salamun-Alaikum@Muslimtruthrevealed,
Dear brother really learning from your deliberations, new here, but after reading this whole thread, i have to ask about this following verse.
4129 Men who have been permitted a second wife must understand that You will not be able to deal equally between your wives however much you wish. But turn not altogether away from one, leaving her as if in suspense between having and not having a husband. Fulfill the rights of each one of them and be mindful of Allah. Verily, Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Like i said i have read the whole thread, and your exposition about 43 makes a lot of sense. please elaborate on this above verse, correct the translation please if that be so, i have been reading this while Surat, and there is quite a bit of reading to be done, but also Al-Quran talks many places about wife, and wives, and clear use of singular and plural can be observed.
Also direct me to the post discussing the use of Al-Kh-M-R. "Alcohol" Wine, etc
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Nun de plume
If you would read the PREVIOUS ayah....
O you who believe!
O those who believe in the Prophet!
Ya / Present Tense Vocative, NOW, calling for YOUR attention
ayyuha / present tense vocative NOUN meaning 'Which one of you, Who, Whosoever
An-Nabiyyu / Accusative, Object of 'those who believe'
-
Salamun-Alaikum@Muslimtruthrevealed,
Dear brother really learning from your deliberations, new here, but after reading this whole thread, i have to ask about this following verse.
4129 Men who have been permitted a second wife must understand that You will not be able to deal equally between your wives however much you wish. But turn not altogether away from one, leaving her as if in suspense between having and not having a husband. Fulfill the rights of each one of them and be mindful of Allah. Verily, Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Like i said i have read the whole thread, and your exposition about 43 makes a lot of sense. please elaborate on this above verse, correct the translation please if that be so, i have been reading this while Surat, and there is quite a bit of reading to be done, but also Al-Quran talks many places about wife, and wives, and clear use of singular and plural can be observed.
Also direct me to the post discussing the use of Al-Kh-M-R. "Alcohol" Wine, etc
Assalaam Alaikum @Nadir
Thank You Brother Nadir, I sincerely appreciate your observations. My agenda here is just to convey the message of Allah, thats all.
And YOU CAN NEVER / LAN HAVE THE CAPABILITY / tastateeAAoo TO BE EQUITABLE BETWEEN WOMEN / AN-NISAI, even if you are eager, so you do not incline, inclining totally (to any one of them), then you leave her as suspended and if you amend / correct and take guard, then surely Allah is oft forgiving, merciful.
Lan negative particle in the FUTURE sense
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 519tastateeAAoo (imperfect, 2nd person, masculine, plural Verb Form X means to attempt or desire something) You are NOT able;Root word Ta?a to obey or permit
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345-346 (ta?a)AN-NISAI, Definite Noun, Women NOT 'wives' mistranslation
The context and reference of the ayah is addressing the desires of Men, FUTURE, wishful thinking, etc.
-
Salamun-Alaikum@Muslimtruthrevealed,
Dear brother really learning from your deliberations, new here, but after reading this whole thread, i have to ask about this following verse.
4129 Men who have been permitted a second wife must understand that You will not be able to deal equally between your wives however much you wish. But turn not altogether away from one, leaving her as if in suspense between having and not having a husband. Fulfill the rights of each one of them and be mindful of Allah. Verily, Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Like i said i have read the whole thread, and your exposition about 43 makes a lot of sense. please elaborate on this above verse, correct the translation please if that be so, i have been reading this while Surat, and there is quite a bit of reading to be done, but also Al-Quran talks many places about wife, and wives, and clear use of singular and plural can be observed.
Also direct me to the post discussing the use of Al-Kh-M-R. "Alcohol" Wine, etc
4129
Transliteration Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisai walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wain tuslihoo watattaqoo fainna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
Abdullah Yusuf Ali Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self- restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Mufti Taqi Usmani You shall never be able to maintain real equality between wives, even though you are eager to. So, do not lean totally (towards one) and leave the other as suspended. If you act righteously and fear Allah, then, Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.
Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so) But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Sahih International And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive . So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful -
If you would read the PREVIOUS ayah....
O you who believe!
O those who believe in the Prophet!
Ya / Present Tense Vocative, NOW, calling for YOUR attention
ayyuha / present tense vocative NOUN meaning 'Which one of you, Who, Whosoever
An-Nabiyyu / Accusative, Object of 'those who believe'
Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed, if you would only read... !
"YA AYYUHA ALLATHEENA" ? addresses/calls attention to believers!
3349 You, you those who believe!Read
? Al-Baqara (The Cow) >
? Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)
? An-Nisa (The Women)
? Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
? Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)
? At-Tauba (The Repentance)
? Al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage)
? Al-Nour (The Light)
? Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)
? Muhammad
? Al-Hujurat (The Dwellings)
? Al-Hadid (Iron)
? Al-Mujadilah (The Disputation)
? Al-Hashr (The Gathering)
? Al-Mumtahinah (The Examined One)
? As-Saff (The Row)
? Al-Jumu'ah (Friday)
? Al-Munafiqun (The Hypocrites)
? At-Taghabun (Loss and Gain)
? At-Tahrem (The Banning)"YA AYYUHA ALNNABIYYU" ? addresses/calls attention to the prophet!
3350 You, you the prophet!Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu hasbuka Allahu wamani ittabaAAaka mina almu/mineena
864 You, you the prophet! God is enough for you and who follow you from the believers.Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu harridi almu/mineena
865 You, you the prophet! Encourage the believers...Read
? Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)>
? At-Tauba (The Repentance)>
? Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)>
? Al-Mumtahinah (The Examined One)
? At-Talaq (The Divorce)
? At-Tahrem (The Banning)
? Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)>
? At-Tauba (The Repentance)>
? Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)>
? Al-Mumtahinah (The Examined One)
? At-Talaq (The Divorce)
? At-Tahrem (The Banning)peace
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Nun
All of YOUR English references are wrong
"YA AYYUHA ALNNABIYYU" ? addresses/calls attention to the prophet!
3350 You, you the prophet!Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu hasbuka Allahu wamani ittabaAAaka mina almu/mineena
864 You, you the prophet! God is enough for you and who follow you from the believers.Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu harridi almu/mineena
865 You, you the prophet! Encourage the believers...I explained clearly in the previous post that there are TWO PRESENT TENSE vocatives....
Ya & ayyuha....Present Tense..Now....
Nabiyyu is an Accusative Case...Its the Object of of those who 'Believe'. Accusative means something is being DONE to the Object, Nabiyyu its NOT referencing the 'actual' 'living' Prophet, its referencing the character and behavior displayed by the Prophet that the Believers are 'Believing in'.
Think of the Accusative Case as someone 'accusing' you of something (i.e. He/She is a great person or He/She is a Humble Muslim)
The Quran is guidance for those alive NOT those that are dead.
That it may give admonition to any (who are) alive / hayyan, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject (Truth).
Muhammed, saw is nolonger living...Im sorry that may upset you emotionally, but its the reality and Allah is the reality
This is so, because Allah is the Reality. it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who has power over all things.
And verily the Hour will come. there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.
-
Greetings again @Muslimtruthrevealed,
All of YOUR English references are wrong
Then YOU translate the verses below with ?Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu?...
? Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)>
? At-Tauba (The Repentance)>
? Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)>
? Al-Mumtahinah (The Examined One)
? At-Talaq (The Divorce)
? At-Tahrem (The Banning)The Quran is guidance for those alive NOT those that are dead.
The guidance relates stories of the past...
12111 In their narration (stories there) had been an example/warning to those of the pure minds/hearts (it) was not an information/speech to be fabricated and but confirmation (to) which (is) between his hands and detailing/explaining/clarifying every thing, and guidance, and mercy to (a) nation believing.
Muhammed, saw is nolonger living...Im sorry that may upset you emotionally
Yes all prophets ? what leads you believe that this upsets me emotionally?
Stay on topic, not divert into assumptions and word injections where there are none.
Address the case of the two sisters which is under general prohibition for all...
422-23 And do not marry what your fathers married from the women, except what had preceded/passed, that it was an enormous/atrocious deed, and abhorrence/hateful, and (it is an) evil way/path. Your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your paternal aunts, and your maternal aunts, and the brothers' daughters (nieces), and the sisters' daughters (nieces), and your mothers who breast fed you, and your sisters from the breast feeding, and your women's (wives' mothers (mothers in-law), and your step- daughters who (are) in your custody from your women (wives) whom you entered with them, are forbidden on you, so if you were not entered with them, so no offense/sin on you, and (also forbidden on you are) your sons' allowed/permitted women (wives) whom (are) from your backbones/genealogical relations, and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded, that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Of those things which have preceded, the exceptions moving forward are made clear.
-
Greetings again @Muslimtruthrevealed,
Then YOU translate the verses below with ?Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu?...
? Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)>
? At-Tauba (The Repentance)>
? Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)>
? Al-Mumtahinah (The Examined One)
? At-Talaq (The Divorce)
? At-Tahrem (The Banning)The guidance relates stories of the past...
12111 In their narration (stories there) had been an example/warning to those of the pure minds/hearts (it) was not an information/speech to be fabricated and but confirmation (to) which (is) between his hands and detailing/explaining/clarifying every thing, and guidance, and mercy to (a) nation believing.
Yes all prophets ? what leads you believe that this upsets me emotionally?
Stay on topic, not divert into assumptions and word injections where there are none.
Address the case of the two sisters which is under general prohibition for all...
422-23 And do not marry what your fathers married from the women, except what had preceded/passed, that it was an enormous/atrocious deed, and abhorrence/hateful, and (it is an) evil way/path. Your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your paternal aunts, and your maternal aunts, and the brothers' daughters (nieces), and the sisters' daughters (nieces), and your mothers who breast fed you, and your sisters from the breast feeding, and your women's (wives' mothers (mothers in-law), and your step- daughters who (are) in your custody from your women (wives) whom you entered with them, are forbidden on you, so if you were not entered with them, so no offense/sin on you, and (also forbidden on you are) your sons' allowed/permitted women (wives) whom (are) from your backbones/genealogical relations, and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded, that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Of those things which have preceded, the exceptions moving forward are made clear.
Assalaam Alaikum @Nun
The topic is 'Number of Wives'.
As I informed you, I do NOT argue about or 'with' translations nor do I engage in 'juggling' ayats.(I reference an ayat, you give me another ayat to (attempt) refuting the ayat I referenced)
Lastly, I dont have a clue about 'cousins marrying other cousins' as it relates to Sura Nisa 423. I dont see any relevance to 'that you combine between the two sisters'.
Just create a thread and lets discuss it.
-
Sure they do.....
Can you please give which dictionary you have that suggests mathna, thulatha and rubaa'a are ordinal numbers 2,3 & 4?
"O, yes" they do both- lanes and the q.d by omar.
Alaho Hafiz.
-
"O, yes" they do both- lanes and the q.d by omar.
Alaho Hafiz.
Your intellectually unfair Simple....
mathna means by twos, in pairs; Root word is Thanna meaning to bend, to fold, engage one thing upon another, CONCEAL ENMITY, TO DISSUADE, TO PREVENT, to turn away, divert
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 128 ? 130 (tana)
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 87 (Thanna)
thulatha means to take a third part of a thing, three at a time, three by three, three pairs, in threesRoot word thalatha to triple, make threefold, to do three times
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 126 ? 127 (thalatha)
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 83 (thalatha)
Lanes Lexicon Part 1 Page 348 1st column
rubaAAa means fourth part, complete the number four, be the fourth;Root word Raba?a to gallop, to sit, to squat, to stay, live, to quadruple,multiply by four, increase fourfold
Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 373 ? 374 (raba?a)
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 200 (rubaa)
@Simple Now what did you accomplish?
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Nun
The topic is 'Number of Wives'.
As I informed you, I do NOT argue about or 'with' translations nor do I engage in 'juggling' ayats.(I reference an ayat, you give me another ayat to (attempt) refuting the ayat I referenced)
Lastly, I dont have a clue about 'cousins marrying other cousins' as it relates to Sura Nisa 423. I dont see any relevance to 'that you combine between the two sisters'.
Just create a thread and lets discuss it.
Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed,
There is nothing to argue or a need to create new thread ? you posted an obvious error...
Quote from Muslimtruthrevealed on Yesterday at 112559 PM
O those who believe in the Prophet!"Ya ayyuha allatheena" ? addresses/calls attention to believers!
3349 O you who believe!?Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu? ? addresses/calls attention to the prophet!
3350 O you the prophet!Lastly, to topic ?Number of Wives? IS relevant ?that you NOT combine between the TWO sisters.?
This is clear and simple IF THEN ELSE logic;
IF on prohibited list THEN do not marry ELSE (e.g. cousins not on list) marry.
IF they (the women) are TWO sisters THEN do not marry ELSE marry.
Peace
-
Assalaam Alaikum
Nun, let me help you Sura Nisa 423 is NOT 'implying' you can marry 'cousins'.
Actually this ayah makes it clear....
O those who believe in the Prophet! We have made lawful to you thy wives to whom you have paid their dowers; and those whom you have control of leading to the right/blessings whom Allah has assigned to you; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated with you / hajarna maAAaka;
By the way, 'denial' is NOT a validation or confirmation of an error. 'Denial' can be indicative of ignorance and arrogance.
Now the topic in this thread is 'Number of Wives'
-
Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed,
I do not need help with this, learn quote button, and gather your thoughts before posting incoherent sentences and mangled verses such as this...
Posted by Muslimtruthrevealed
O those who believe in the Prophet!http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/33/50/
Denial
Definition A refusal to admit the truth of a statement, charge, imputation, etc.; assertion of the untruth of a thing stated or maintained; a contradiction. -
Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed,
I do not need help with this, learn quote button, and gather your thoughts before posting incoherent sentences and mangled verses such as this...
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/33/50/
Denial
Definition A refusal to admit the truth of a statement, charge, imputation, etc.; assertion of the untruth of a thing stated or maintained; a contradiction.Im sorry your feelings are hurt, thats what happens when you put your ego before the truth.
Now, again the topic is 'Number of wives'
-
Assalaam Alaikum @Nun de plume
If you would read the PREVIOUS ayah....
O you who believe!
O those who believe in the Prophet!
Ya / Present Tense Vocative, NOW, calling for YOUR attention
ayyuha / present tense vocative NOUN meaning 'Which one of you, Who, Whosoever
An-Nabiyyu / Accusative, Object of 'those who believe'