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  4. An Evaluation of the Word Rajul

An Evaluation of the Word Rajul

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Assalaam Alaikum

    In Sura Nisa 41 'Rijalan' is referring to 'Men' and 'Nisaan' is referring to 'Women'.

    Salam,

    This is an argument from personal incredulity.

    Its quite clear If one takes the initiative to reflect upon the Arabic grammar of the Quran.

    Claiming something is "quite clear" is not satisfactory evidence for your claim. Yes, grammar is important, but without a firm understanding of the words being used one will not be able to understand the message being conveyed.

    Utilizing Hebrew Lexicons and Biblical resources will not give one the clear understanding of what Allah is conveying in the language of Allah.

    That is your opinion, again, without satisfactory evidence to support your position.

    Do you realize that you severely misquoted that ayah above? Words have been deleted and added and yet you are presenting this as evidence?

    The verse should read

    Since you claim to read in Arabic you should be able to easily notice where the errors are.

    Salam,
    Arnab

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      studentofquran
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      Peace to everyone,

      MTR, instead of this imaginary Arabic grammar rules you keep on yakking about but can never have the intellectual credentials to actually quote (because you fear being refuted, no doubt), why not focus on the actual content of 4/1? Why do you think the word is 'ba'atha' is there instead of walada (to give birth)? Ba'atha is the same word used in 2/164 so go figure.

      Don't hide behind these so called grammar rules like the sunnis, man. The Quran never supports these imaginations. Focus on the Quran and you'll see or yourself.

      MTRUtilizing Hebrew Lexicons and Biblical resources will not give one the clear understanding of what Allah is conveying in the language of Allah.

      The language of ALLAH? Darn, we better all learn Arabic pretty damn quick in case Allah doesn't understand us when we speak to Him? I wonder if moroccans's dialect works?

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        Supernaut
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Yeah, this idea that "Arabic is Allah's language" makes the god look like an Arab nationalist which It is not.

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          Muslimtruthrevealed
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          Am yaqooloona iftara AAala Allahi kathiban fain yashai Allahu yakhtim AAala qalbika wa yamhu Allahu albatila wayuhiqqu alhaqqa bi kalimatihi innahu AAaleemun bithati alssudoori

          yamhu means to repeal, reverse the influence, abolishes; Root word Maha obliterate, blot out, erase, disappear, totally abolish; Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 527 (maha)

          Al Batila that which is false, corrupt, delusive, THAT WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF TRUTH (HAQQ); Mubtilun One who says a thing which has no basis in reality or TRUTH; Al Batila with definite article (adaa-ta-tarif) encompasses ALL meanings of the Root word Batala; Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 55 (batala)

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            Al_Araf
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            salam arnab. allah provided us the scriptures and the quran for guidance. we need look no further than allah's guidance to determine the meaning of the words allah uses. using the infallible words of allah, to analyse the meaning of words, provides us with infallible definitions.

            the word rajal or rajul, has only one use in the scriptures and quran. the usage is the authority of men, the foot of men.

            you state in another thread that you practice what allah has established for you. practice what allah has established for you.

            allah uses mathala or parables to illustrate his word, the actions of allah are a clue to infallible behavior. there is no mathala of allah using dictionaries, lexicons, and root word lists.

            fallible human beings create fallible dictionaries, lexicons, and root lists, misleading people with fallible opinions of the meaning of allah's words.

            all good comes from allah, all evil comes from mankind.

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            • U Offline
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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              salam arnab. allah provided us the scriptures and the quran for guidance. we need look no further than allah's guidance to determine the meaning of the words allah uses. using the infallible words of allah, to analyse the meaning of words, provides us with infallible definitions.

              Salam Al Araf,

              I agree that the Quran should be the authoratative source for understanding the definition of a word. However, definitions in dictionaries, and etymology are also important as guides. Please notice the difference between the words guide and authority.

              The Hebrew definitions in my earlier post are largely (not entirely) based on the usage in The Tanakh. I also included information from various sources who commented on the way they understand rajul is used in the Tanakh and in history in general.

              the word rajal or rajul, has only one use in the scriptures and quran. the usage is the authority of men, the foot of men.

              If you mean men as in human beings/mankind/those who are homo sapiens then I agree. If, you mean men as in a male human being, then I disagree.

              allah uses mathala or parables to illustrate his word, the actions of allah are a clue to infallible behavior. there is no mathala of allah using dictionaries, lexicons, and root word lists

              fallible human beings create fallible dictionaries, lexicons, and root lists, misleading people with fallible opinions of the meaning of allah's words..

              I'm going to rephrase what I already said While I will agree that at times dictionaries can contain mistakes, if one evaluates the contents of the referrences in my earlier post one will see that the entries are largely (not entirely) based on scriptural usage.

              And,the simple fact remains the root, rajul, is used the same in the previous scriptures as it is used in the Quran.

              Salam,
              Arnab

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                Al_Araf
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                salam arnab.

                show me one example from the scriptures or the quran, one mathala, where the rajal is used in connection with a woman's foot. show me one example from the scriptures, one mathala, where rajal is used in connection with mankinds foot. let me know if all you find is the word rajal associated with the foot of men.

                allah is the word.

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                • U Offline
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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  salam arnab.

                  show me one example from the scriptures or the quran, one mathala, where the rajal is used in connection with a woman's foot.

                  Salam,

                  There are several verses referring to women's feet. Here are two verses from the Quran, and 3 verses from the Tanakh

                  2431

                  And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.

                  6012

                  O Prophet! when believing women come to you giving you a pledge that they will not associate aught with Allah, and will not steal, and will not commit fornication, and will not kill their children, and will not bring a calumny which they have forged of themselves, nor commit slander that they fabricate between their hands and feet and will not disobey you in what is good, accept their pledge, and ask forgiveness for them from Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

                  From the Tanakh

                  Deu 2856 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

                  2Ki 935 And they went to bury her; but they found no more of her than the skull, and the feet, and the palms of her hands.

                  Isa 316 Moreover the LORD said Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet;
                  (side note notice the commandment in the Quran not to believing women not to strike their feet and the chastisement of the daughters of Zion for making a tinkling with their feet?)

                  show me one example from the scriptures, one mathala, where rajal is used in connection with mankinds foot. let me know if all you find is the word rajal associated with the foot of men.

                  allah is the word.

                  There are numerous verses that speak of the feet of both men and women here are a two from the Quran and 3 from the Tanakh

                  566 (565 addresses people of the book so that would include both men and women)

                  And if they had honored the Torah and the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

                  56

                  O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

                  Tanakh

                  Moses addressing beni Israel
                  Deu 1124 Every place whereon the sole of your foot shall tread shall be yours from the wilderness, and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the hinder sea shall be your border.

                  Num 2019 And the children of Israel said unto him 'We will go up by the highway; and if we drink of thy water, I and my cattle, then will I give the price thereof; let me only pass through on my feet; there is no hurt.'

                  Eze 2911 No foot of man (in Hebrew literally foot of Adam) shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

                  However, is it really so surprising that there are verses that indicate women have feet? As a general statement women usually have feet.

                  Salam,
                  Arnab

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                  • B Offline
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                    belH
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Salam,

                    There are several verses referring to women's feet.

                    Peace All

                    Arnab; Rajel means leg, and Rajol means Man.

                    24-31, 60-12 are about women leg.
                    5-66 and 5-6 are about Humans Legs (man and woman)

                    Please, be adviced that the two words are completly different.
                    Peace

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                    • U Offline
                      U Offline
                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      Peace All

                      Arnab; Rajel means leg, and Rajol means Man.

                      24-31, 60-12 are about women leg.
                      5-66 and 5-6 are about Humans Legs (man and woman)

                      Please, be adviced that the two words are completly different.
                      Peace

                      Salam Belalhammad,

                      I disagree.
                      Please re-read the first post.

                      Salam,
                      Arnab

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                      • H Offline
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                        huruf
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        I have seen in the last few days two instances where the word rajul is used in the Quran with the meaning of individual, man or woman. The second instance I found while tying to find again the first one, which I saw when looking for something else. Right now I am not at home and do not have the ayas at hand. When I have the sond one I will post as for the first one or any others there might be, I don't know if somebody could make a search. Right now I am away from home, and I do not have access to my things or to internet.

                        Salam

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                        • M Offline
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                          Muslimtruthrevealed
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          Assalaam Alaikum

                          Rajul is an Active Participle and means to 'walker, come forward, step up' it does NOT mean 'leg'

                          When Allah mentions 'leg' the word are rijlayni /

                          The obvious meaning of Raj'a-lan and Nisa'a is derived from Sura Nisa 4.1 where Allah,swt defines

                          from that soul countless men and women / and baththa minhuma rijalan katheeran wa nisa'a /

                          min-huma is a dual, masculine and feminine pronoun reference that governs and defines rijalan / and nisa'a / as Men and Women, respectively.

                          rijalan / is a broken plural, masculine

                          nisa?a / is feminine singular, indicated by the feminine marker, extended alif & hamza /

                          In Sura Al-Baqarah 2.282 there is a dual form of the Active Participle 'Rajul', which is both male & female

                          rajul-ayni (dual, male & female) farajulun / = Urge witnesses to come forward (male & female)

                          The feminine form of rajul / rijal / rajula(tun) = "a woman" is NOT in the Quran and is NOT used in 'Classical' Arabic or 'Standard' Arabic.

                          The individual who continues to suggest that 'rajul' means 'leg, women, etc.', does NOT realize that rajul / rajil are Active Participle's. Nor does the individual know the difference between a Verb, Verbal Noun and Active Participle as it relates to the word.

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                          • M Offline
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                            Muslimtruthrevealed
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            Assalaam Alaikum

                            In An-Nur 24.31...la yadribna bi-arjuli-hinna li yuAAlama /

                            Al-Mumtahinah 60.12... bayna aydeehinna wa arjuli-hinna /

                            arjuli-hinna Verb Form IV, to assume masculine manners, behave like a man, to act like a man, display masculine qualities

                            Above ayahs suggest taking on some type of negative (masculine) character trait and have nothing to do with 'women's legs'.

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