ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO INITIATE DIVORCE?
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salam zerda.
is there evidence to prove they are not
yes, there is evidence to prove they are not. husbands are a degree above wives. wives are required to obey their husbands. wives are not equal to husbands.
husbands and wives are males and females and therefore they are all as each other
this is where your problem comes from. all males are not husbands, all females are not wives. you take the rule that says male and female are equal, and then try and say this means husbands and wives are equal, this is your dishonesty. no. males and females are equal. husbands and wives are not equal. learn the difference.
unless u have any proof to show that with the marriage contract male and female become something else that makes them unequal
yes, there is evidence to prove they are not. husbands are a degree above wives. wives are required to obey their husbands.
So if it's not stated in the Quran that it is prohibited for a woman to initiate a divorce, there is no one who can prohibit it. God has already detailed in the Quran what is prohibited
wrong. wives are required to obey their husbands, the husband can prohibit it. allah has prohibited wives from disobeying their husbands.
Al Araf where does God say women are prohibited from initiating divorce?
wives are required to obey their husbands, the husband can prohibit it.
women are prohibited from initiating divorce
this is where you have problems in your brain. you confuse women and wives, females and wives. a wife is a subcategory of women, a wife is a subcategory of females. you are thinking backwards and you are wrong. let me give you another example of your thinking.
a fish is a living creature, a dog is a living creature, therefore fish are dogs.
a female is a woman, a wife is a woman, therefore females are wives.do you see how you make no sense. obviously fish are not dogs. obviously not all females are wives. this is a common weakness of thinking in illiterate people. there is a name for this mistake. it is called "inferring from the general to the specific" a well known logical fallacy.
a woman is general, a wife is specific. you can say all wives are women. you cannot say all women are wives.
when you are not careful, and say things like, women can get a divorce, you already started out wrong, there are many women who are not married, who shall they divorce?
allah is the teacher.
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anyway. god says in the quran not to keep women against their will. If woman does not want, then BELIEVER will not keep her being married with him against woman's will..
Why would a man prohibit his wife from divorcing him? That is called oppression. And oppression is worse than murder..
Nobody can force other to do something against their will. God does not like oppressors...My point is why should a woman marrry if it takes her into a prison like situation?
There is no compulsion in religion. Why should there be a compulsion in marriage?males and females are equal. husbands and wives are not equal. learn the difference
i as a female am equal to my male husband..
wives are required to obey their husbands.
bring proof.
allah has prohibited wives from disobeying their husbands
prove itthe only obedience i've come across with is obeying God, messengers, those with authority..
the husband can prohibit it.
the only things husbands can prohibit, are the things prohibited by GOD. Nobody can make extra prohibitions and force it to someone. God has not prohibited wife to initiate divorce and husband has no right to impose such prohibition on his wife. If he does, he is one of the oppressors that force people doing things against their will. That makes them worse than murderers.. -
salam zerda. once again we have to go over the whole issue with you, because just like others you dont read the quran.
god says in the quran not to keep women against their will
that is forging a lie against allah. the verse says, not to inherit a woman against her will. nothing to do with wives. has to do with women inherited.
i as a female am equal to my male husband.. bring proof.. prove it
the proof is in your hand. allah has given you the quran.
Quran 444.
go play your tricks with ignorant people.
allah is the truth.
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why should a woman marrry if it takes her into a prison like situation?
There is no compulsion in religion. Why should there be a compulsion in marriage?can you answer this, please?
i reapeat this again
the only things husbands can prohibit, are the things prohibited by GOD. Nobody can make extra prohibitions and force it to someone. God has not prohibited wife to initiate divorce and husband has no right to impose such prohibition on his wife.
no ayas to prove your point? If you're telling the truth, then prove it. prove that wives have to obey their husbands. Bring reference please. And also please bring reference to your argument that Allah has prohibited wives from disobeying their husbands!
where in the Quran does it say that husband got right to keep his wife with him even if she does not want it? If God does not force His religion on people, why would God suggest that husband got right to keep his wife as his prisoner?
i stick to my point that wife as a female got equal rights to her husband as a male. male and female they are equal to one another. All females and all males are equal. Saying that men are superior to women is contradicting the previous statement. They may have different roles in life but that's all.
you confuse women and wives, females and wives. a wife is a subcategory of women, a wife is a subcategory of females.
Not all females are wives, but all wives are female
Not all males are husbands, but all husbands are male.
If male is equal to female
then husband is equal to wifethis is just some simple logic.
if something applies to general category, it must also apply to its sub-categories.
a fish is a living creature, a dog is a living creature, therefore fish are dogs.
a female is a woman, a wife is a woman, therefore females are wives.category living creatures
sub categories dogs and fish.
therefore dogs and fish are living creatures.category females
sub category women and wives
therefore women and wives are femalesThat's what i can remember from my logic lessons..
do you see how you make no sense. obviously fish are not dogs. obviously not all females are wives. this is a common weakness of thinking in illiterate people. there is a name for this mistake. it is called "inferring from the general to the specific" a well known logical fallacy.that what you posted, was your logic. As you can see, it has nothing to do with my logic..
You are trying to tell me that as a wife i have no rights God has given me as a female. Sorry if it annoys you, but being a wife does not stop me from being a female. I am both. At the same time ) Therefore equality law must apply for me weather you like it or not. As long as i keep being female i am equal to males. (unless you can prove that i'm not a female ) )
and I am a wife. Therefore all the laws that God has given me as a wife, apply to me as well.
If you believe that husband is not equal to his wife.. then.. you have found a contradiction in the quran.. congrats! you just proved its from other than God. -
salam zerda.
yes, there is evidence to prove they are not. husbands are a degree above wives. wives are required to obey their husbands. wives are not equal to husbands.
this is where your problem comes from. all males are not husbands, all females are not wives. you take the rule that says male and female are equal, and then try and say this means husbands and wives are equal, this is your dishonesty. no. males and females are equal. husbands and wives are not equal. learn the difference.
yes, there is evidence to prove they are not. husbands are a degree above wives. wives are required to obey their husbands.
wrong. wives are required to obey their husbands, the husband can prohibit it. allah has prohibited wives from disobeying their husbands.
wives are required to obey their husbands, the husband can prohibit it.
this is where you have problems in your brain. you confuse women and wives, females and wives. a wife is a subcategory of women, a wife is a subcategory of females. you are thinking backwards and you are wrong. let me give you another example of your thinking.
a fish is a living creature, a dog is a living creature, therefore fish are dogs.
a female is a woman, a wife is a woman, therefore females are wives.do you see how you make no sense. obviously fish are not dogs. obviously not all females are wives. this is a common weakness of thinking in illiterate people. there is a name for this mistake. it is called "inferring from the general to the specific" a well known logical fallacy.a woman is general, a wife is specific. you can say all wives are women. you cannot say all women are wives.
when you are not careful, and say things like, women can get a divorce, you already started out wrong, there are many women who are not married, who shall they divorce?
allah is the teacher.salam zerda. i give you the hukum of allah.
Quran 434
Quran 2228
allah is the law.
hmm
My Arabic is not that great, I want to learn the difference &. please some one explain Are all Rijaal, husbands and all Nisa, wives ??? I do not see any specific referece to a husband muscle or a wife '( in the verses above. -
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salam samia. talk sense.
allah says nisa menstruate and give birth to children. find us one man who menstruates and gives birth to children.
if your lisan ul arab cannot teach cannot teach you this, better throw it in the trash.
allah is the teacher.
"Women can be rijaal" does not mean that "women cannot be women". Logic is a bliss.
Now answer my question to you here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8412.msg181930#msg181930
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salam farida. what is missing from this discussion, is an analysis of the english words "husband" and "wife"
what is being swept under the carpet, is that english speaking people have altered the definition of these words.
"In premodern times (ancient Roman, mediaeval, and early modern history), a husband was supposed to protect and support not only his wife and children, but servants and animals of his domain, and the father (as the ?patron?) was awarded with much authority, differing from that of his wife" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husband
the word rajal is similar to that definition of husband, the ancient roman, medieval, and early modern history definition.
then these "people who change words from their places" pagans, christians, and secularists changed the definition to "In contemporary Christian or secularized Western culture, the rights of wife and husband have been made equal" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husband
the word rajal has nothing to do with this contemporary christian or secularized culture.
this changing of the words from their places, done by pagans, christians, and secularists, is the evil which is the source of confusion.
the words of the quran are true, static, immutable, and stand for all time. allah does not need to invent new definitions, he got it right the first time.
allah is the word.
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salam zerda. i give you the hukum of allah.
Quran 434
Quran 2228
allah is the law.
434 The men are to support the women by what God has bestowed on them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them. If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
2228 And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfill their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.i can not see these verses supporting your claims, Al Araf
is that all you got? -
salam zerda. i give you the hukum of allah.
Quran 434
Quran 2228
allah is the law.
Salam Zerda,
Here is the hukum of Allah
49.13 O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honourable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.
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salam arnab. you display a characteristics common to new readers of the quran. cut/copy/pasting large sections of dictionaries and lexicons, do not demonstrate depth of study or knowledge, all it demonstrates is computer skills. taking one word out of a dictionary, because it suits your motives, refusing to study the implications of its use, is not quran study.
Salam Al Araf,
In any form of debate one must present clear evidence and sources to support their understanding. I have noticed you rarely do anything other than state your opinion using your traditional understanding without any resources to back your claims except that you simply "claim it" and expect others to accept your claim without contestation.
let me begin with your claim that nisa is not a woman, but simply a person delayed. fahad examined the implications for the claim it means a person delayed, and produced a list of verses that are reduced to incomprehensibility. because your definition reduces verses to incomprehensible, your definition cannot be correct. one verse in particular defies your definition and there is no way around it.
Quran 2222.
men do not menstruate, only women menstruate. this verse says the nisa menstruate. reasonably it is impossible that nisa are men. reasonably nisa can only mean women.
I cannot say that I necessarily agree that almaheedi means menstration at this time. But, let's say for the sake of argument that almaheedi actually means menstration.
Why do you insist that nisa means exclusively women?
IF as you claim, nisa means women, then
A woman is unclean/unpure the moment she washes her hands because she is touching repeatedly her hands as she washes (56)
Furthermore, if we go by your understanding, alatheena aminoo does not include women since they are instructed not to touch them if they want to be "purified" for salat.And, under your understanding the majority of verses in the Quran are ordinances and laws for men and not women.
This is utter nonsense.
now you throw another random word as a definition for talaq, because it suits your motives, refusing to study the implications of its use. the result is an another incomprehensible.
you claim that talaq means to go on ones way, quit, be free from bond etc.. without studying the implications of these uses in the quran. you present these multiple definitions, not because you know what talaq means, but because you do not know what it means, therefore throwing multiple words from cut/copy/paste is your solution.
Am I to understand, that in your opinion, well documented evidence in support for my understanding as well as the fact that the definitions are concordant with the usage in the Quran, is not acceptable because YOU have decided that your flawed traditional and misogynistic view (unsupported by evidence) of quranic verses is superior?
let us examine your implication that a woman who has a nikah with a man is as you claim, free to go on ones way, quit, or simply to be free from bond. this is not a novel issue, allah has already issued a judgment with regard to this claim.
Quran 543.
allah commands us to examine the torah for his judgments, and those who turn away are not believers. therefore i turn to the torah as he commands. what does the torah say regarding your claims that a wife may consider herself free to go on her way, quit, or simply be free from bond.
"speak unto the children of israel, and say unto them, if any man's wife go aside and commit a tresspass against him" Torah, Numbers 511
That verse is out of context and refers to trespasseses while married... not divorce. Anyone who reads the verses in context (even in English) can see this.
"when the woman drinks the water, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, the curse bearing water shall enter her body to poison her, and her belly shall swell, and her sexual organs shall rupture the woman will be a curse among her people" Torah, Numbers 527
"this is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled" Torah, Numbers 528
any wife who claims she may go aside from her husband, i give her this bitter water to drink. may allah issue and enforce his judgments.
Again, these verses are in regards to adultery not divorce.
Salam,
Arnab