Can we make contact with the dead
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Salam Nerspi,
I have a Sufi story for you
A certain respected thinker and teacher had written a book on astrology. Some people said that he must be a magician or insane; others believed that this action had shown that there was truth in astrology.
Ultimately a dervish who had travelled many miles to see the sage asked him about the problem, saying, ?Surely astrological work is inconsistent with the Path of the Wise , and the Work of the Elect??
The sage answered
?I make absolutely sure that all my pupils study my book on astrology. In this way they are able to understand that astrology does not work.
When they are completely skilled in the art, I make them interpret horoscopes.
These we compare, and we always find such discrepancies in interpretation, when properly tested, that it becomes self-evident that the system is useful only for imaginings.?
The visitor said
?Could you not simply tell them that astrology is not a true science, as others do??
?Firstly, said the sage, ?If the telling had been effective when done by others, who would still believe in astrology?
When did telling equal understanding?
Secondly, when you have thoroughly investigated one superstition, you are unlikely to be able to sustain or adopt another.?
?So it was not astrology in particular which you seek to dispose of??
No, Astrology is one of the easiest absurdities to study, because its practitioners have allowed themselves to be pinned down to rules?
-From ?Thinkers of the East? by Idries ShahMy point is that many of us have told you our opinions on contacting the dead to which you always have an argument.
If studying ?the art of contacting the dead? is what you seek, then I suggest you study it.
My suspicion is that you will begin by trying to prove us wrong
and then eventually come to the understanding of those of us who say it is a waste of time.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Nerspi,
I have a Sufi story for you
A certain respected thinker and teacher had written a book on astrology. Some people said that he must be a magician or insane; others believed that this action had shown that there was truth in astrology.
Ultimately a dervish who had travelled many miles to see the sage asked him about the problem, saying, ?Surely astrological work is inconsistent with the Path of the Wise , and the Work of the Elect??
The sage answered
?I make absolutely sure that all my pupils study my book on astrology. In this way they are able to understand that astrology does not work.
When they are completely skilled in the art, I make them interpret horoscopes.
These we compare, and we always find such discrepancies in interpretation, when properly tested, that it becomes self-evident that the system is useful only for imaginings.?
The visitor said
?Could you not simply tell them that astrology is not a true science, as others do??
?Firstly, said the sage, ?If the telling had been effective when done by others, who would still believe in astrology?
When did telling equal understanding?
Secondly, when you have thoroughly investigated one superstition, you are unlikely to be able to sustain or adopt another.?
?So it was not astrology in particular which you seek to dispose of??
No, Astrology is one of the easiest absurdities to study, because its practitioners have allowed themselves to be pinned down to rules?
-From ?Thinkers of the East? by Idries ShahThis is a good sufi story. Do you know of anymore like these from other sufis or even idries shah??
PEACE
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Salam 2Pac-Notts,
If you are interested in Sufi stories a good starting place is Idries Shah's books. He usually has a variety of stories from different authors. If you are more interested in classic Sufi poetry you might try the sacred texts website http//www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm (You'll have to scroll down to the bottom for the Sufi Texts)
Most of Inayat Khan's lectures and writings are online here http//wahiduddin.net/hik/hik_origins.htm
This is also a really good link for Sufi literature http//www.omphaloskepsis.com/collection/index.html
You can also find Rumi's work in Farsi and Arabic online if you do a basic google search.
Enjoy!
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam. This question is phrased in a vague manner. My issue is with the use of the term "dead" Allow me to explain. Based on my reading of the Quran I have come to the understanding that Allah identifies two types of death. The first type of death is the death of the body. The second type of death is the death of the spirit. I understand that with the first type of death, the dead body will be resurrected on the day of judgment. I further understand that in the case of the second type of death, death of the spirit, there will be no resurrection on the day of judgment.
That said, the question devolves into an understanding of the power of Allah. If Allah wills, we can make contact with the dead. Nothing is beyond Allah's power. Allah hu akbar.
There is a valid concern on the part of forum members, that the question may derive from grief from the loss of a loved one. Please recall that Allah advises us, he who has faith in Allah no fear is on them nor shall they grieve.
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Salaam nerspi. Allah has appointed a yowm e qiyaamat/day of judgment for mankind. Allah has stated that on this day each person will be judged according to his hukum and hudood.
The hudood of Allah are that either a person is raised up on that day judged to be righteous and granted jannat/heaven, or they are raised up on that day judged to be wrongdoers and sent to jahannum/hell, or they are judged on that day to have violated the hudood for which destruction/azaab is the punishment and they are destroyed. Allah is mighty judge.
This is the only conclusion I know of that includes all the Quranic references. May Allah forgive me if I make a mistake.The belief of an atheist that they will not be raised up on the day of judgment is a self fulfilling prophecy. Thats what they wish for thats what they will get. Allah is not in the least bit unjust.
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Salaam nerspi. Allah has appointed a yowm e qiyaamat/day of judgment for mankind. Allah has stated that on this day each person will be judged according to his hukum and hudood.
The hudood of Allah are that either a person is raised up on that day judged to be righteous and granted jannat/heaven, or they are raised up on that day judged to be wrongdoers and sent to jahannum/hell, or they are judged on that day to have violated the hudood for which destruction/azaab is the punishment and they are destroyed. Allah is mighty judge.
This is the only conclusion I know of that includes all the Quranic references. May Allah forgive me if I make a mistake.The belief of an atheist that they will not be raised up on the day of judgment is a self fulfilling prophecy. Thats what they wish for thats what they will get. Allah is not in the least bit unjust.
Thanks for the highlighted part. Never looked at it in that way....brilliant!!
PEACE
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I agree with Arnold. Actually, the verses are non specific. So, anyone you call on besides God cannot hear you or respond, etc etc.
That would include "the dead" or statues or what ever else a person may call on besides God.
If you are meant to acquire this knowledge God will give it to you. But I would suggest asking him for it.
Salam,
ArnabPeace,
But what about the Angels? can we call on them? I mean if they assists God then they can assist us too!?
Maria
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Peace to All
Allah the All-Wise makes it crystal clear in his Book that the dead cannot hear... If you keep pursuing this way, then you will simply be defying the Almighty's words..
"Verily you cannot make the dead hear and you can not make the deaf hear the call when they turn their backs and retreat."
"The living and the dead are not alike. Allah makes whoever he wishes hear, but you cannot make those in the graves hear."
This is very clear... Hopefully this case can be closed... At least for me
Allah guides whom He wills...