SunDown Or Last Sun's Rays Out?
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Peace Siki,
It has been good two weeks that any body has posted any argument in favour of terminating fast at sun set, so should we think that this matter is settled for good? in favour of Lail , not being at sun set , but after when it is relatively Dark?
Any body having any valid argument from the book is still welcome to come up and contest.
peace
siki
It has been clearly proven and settled that layl/night starts at "duluk al-shams" according to al-quran. You can, however, continue to believe whatever you wish. There is no compulsion in deen and we will all be accountable for our minds and actions.
Just look at your own quote. "Relatively dark" is one of the vaguest terms I have heard. I challenge you to define precisely what "relatively dark" is according to al-quran. Al-quran is precise and "duluk al-shams" as the marker for start of night is very precise. Cross referencing 11114 with 1778 clearly proves that layl/night starts at duluk al-shams. It is a no brainer. No further comments from me on this issue. You can have the last word but that does not mean you are correct. You are usually sharp but I am disappointed with you on this issue. (
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Peace Siki,
It has been clearly proven and settled that night/layl starts at "duluk al-shams" according to al-quran. You can, however continue to believe whatever you wish. There is no compulsion in religion and we will all be accountable for our minds and actions.
salam,
i ususally break my fast about 15-20 minutes after sunset when there is no more redness in the sky, what do you think -
Peace Anna,
salam,
i ususally break my fast about 15-20 minutes after sunset when there is no more redness in the sky, what do you thinkThere is no compulsion in deen and you can do whatever you wish. If you want to follow al-quran, however, it is crystal clear that layl/night starts at "duluk al-shams"/setting of the sun. Cross reference 11114 and 1778 and use your God given mind/logic. Also please go through the entire thread for further proofs. May God guide us to the truth.
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Peace Anna,
There is no compulsion in deen and you can do whatever you wish. If you want to follow al-quran, however, it is crystal clear that layl/night starts at "duluk al-shams"/setting of the sun. Cross reference 11114 and 1778 and use your God given mind/logic. Also please go through the entire thread for further proofs. May God guide us to the truth.
salam,
thank you i know there is no complusion in deen, but you are saying that "duluk lshamis" is the setting of the sun, so if layl begins at that time why did god not say this in the aya concering fasting, why did he say till night why did he not say til duluk lshamis,
and in the aya 1778 he is saying praying from sunset into the night, not into the middle or end but beginning of the night there fore they are 2 separate times, -
Peace Anna,
salam,
thank you i know there is no complusion in deen, but you are saying that "duluk lshamis" is the setting of the sun, so if layl begins at that time why did god not say this in the aya concering fasting, why did he say till night why did he not say til duluk lshamis,
and in the aya 1778 he is saying praying from sunset into the night, not into the middle or end but beginning of the night there fore they are 2 separate times,This has already been discussed before in this thread. Please don't twist God's words. 1778 does not ask us to uphold salat from sunset to night but from sunset to DARKNESS of the night. layl/night starts from duluk al-shams. If night starts from darkness then saying "darkness of the night" would be redundant. It would be just as saying "darkness of the darkness".
Also, numerous verses mention about merging of layl/night and nahaar/daytime. If night only starts at darkness, then where does the merging occur? From sunset to darkness of night is part of both nahaar and layl and is where one of the merging occurs. The other merging is from dawn to sunrise. So night/layl is from sunset to sunrise. The matter is very clear. I will not make any further comments. Please go through this entire thread.
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Truthseeker, salam
We have thrashed all old logics many a times over, and over, so there is no use redoing it but, brother, for God's definition of night (lail) do you have any answer to the following new find from Quran?
Fasiiree baiabdi lailleen, innakum Muttabaoon"
44-23 Allah said, `Take MY servants away by night; for you will surely be pursued.
siki
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Peace Siki,
That has nothing to do with defining the night time. Night/layl can refer to any part of night, but UNTIL NIGHT (2187) can only refer to start of night which is duluk al-shams. This is it. I WILL NOT MAKE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS. So silence on my part cannot be construed as you being correct. It is useless discussing with you any further.
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Peace Siki,
That has nothing to do with defining the night time. Night/layl can refer to any part of night, but UNTIL NIGHT (2187) can only refer to start of night which is duluk al-shams. This is it. I WILL NOT MAKE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS. So silence on my part cannot be construed as you being correct. It is useless discussing with you any further.
OK,
Anyone siding with Truthseeker?
siki
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salam everybody
I think the begining of the night/layl is when a star appears in the sky, this is according to the verse
(676 ) which link the night to the starSo i think the star is the sign for the begining of the night.
also, in the quraan the word night is mostely associted with the word darkness , so it is the darkness of the night which make the star be apparant to us.I myself break the fasting when i see the star.
This is as far as i understand, which to read ur comments? -
salam everybody
I think the begining of the night/layl is when a star appears in the sky, this is according to the verse
(676 ) which link the night to the starSo i think the star is the sign for the begining of the night.
also, in the quraan the word night is mostely associted with the word darkness , so it is the darkness of the night which make the star be apparant to us.I myself break the fasting when i see the star.
This is as far as i understand, which to read ur comments?I hope you are not promoting Karwa Chauth. ;D
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siki,
if I understand your comments correctly, it seems you are implying I choose one option over another due to it allowing me to break fast quicker.I think your comment is a good indicator of the strength of your argument.
Perhaps, rather than asking who agrees with truthseeker, you should ask if anyone agrees with you.
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I am not promoting for anything , i am just telling my understanding which is open for discussion.
P.S. what is karwa chauth hmm?
laugh JOKING
Karwa Chauth Fast
Karwa Chauth fast preparations are made before dawn. Suhagins (married Hindu women) wake up at around 4 am and take their bath. After performing daily prayers women in the family gather together and consume food items collectively called ?sargi?. Apart from food, the sargi also includes fruits and sweets. Traditionally, the sargi is given to the woman by her mother-in-law. After the sargi, women observing Karwa Chauth fast do not consume even a morsel of food or a drop of water. Some modern day women who find the fast too rigorous consume water or milk during the day. Pregnant or sick women are also given a leeway during the fast and are allowed to consume fruits or any other food item considered necessary in their condition. Interestingly, many loving husbands too observe a fast for the sake of their wife. Though there is no such tradition, they do so out of love for their wife. The rigorous Karwa Chauth fast is broken only after moonrise which usually occurs after 8 pm.
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siki,
if I understand your comments correctly, it seems you are implying I choose one option over another due to it allowing me to break fast quicker.I think your comment is a good indicator of the strength of your argument.
Perhaps, rather than asking who agrees with truthseeker, you should ask if anyone agrees with you.
Wakas,
After knowing you long enough I am not implying any thing, but just experimenting on a little bit of leg pulling. But then again , knowing you, it is a bit of surprise for me and I am afraid that is not pleasent enough. Did you really go through this thread thorougly? And if yes , do I dare ask , as to what made you still think that way ?
siki
