An-Najm [1-18 especially] Anyone?
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Peace....
Let's go deeper....
Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
053006And verily he saw him yet another time
053013So the one who the Messenger met on the Isra was Jibreel and the above 2 verses are referring to Jibreel in the light of the verses from Surah 81 19-21
8119 Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger,
8120 Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne,
8121 With authority there, (and) faithful to his trust.So from these enlightening verse, we can be sure that the one Muhammad met on the Isra was Jibreel for he was the one who conveyed the Message to all the previous Messengers and is the most honorable messenger...
However the question here is...
Many translators seem is translating the 5313 as the second descent on Jibreel, the first descent was in the cave on Hira for the first revelation...
And verily he saw him yet another time
For indeed he saw him at a second descent,
And indeed he (Muhammad SAW) saw him at a second descent (i.e. another time).
And certainly he saw him in another descent,
And, certainly, he saw him a second time;
He saw him in another descent.
Indeed, he saw him another time
And he saw him another time,
He had seen him also another time,
He also saw him another time,However from the verse itself, the word OUKHRAA means 'another','one more time' and NOT second... There is no clear evidence from this verse that it was the second meeting/seeing of the angel Gabriel.... The proper translation is ' He saw him one more time/another time'.... SECOND/SAANIYAH is not in the verse...
So the question is... do we have other instances and evidence from the Quran of other meeting of the Messenger with the Angel Gabriel? If you know the other verses, please reply...
May Allah guide us all...
Thank You...
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Salaaman WayFinder,
This is to a quick correction.
However from the verse itself, the word OUKHRAA means 'another','one more time' and NOT second... There is no clear evidence from this verse that it was the second meeting/seeing of the angel Gabriel.... The proper translation is ' He saw him one more time/another time'.... SECOND/SAANIYAH is not in the verse...
If you are refering to the first revelation as said, it is "Iqra" not "Oukhraa". With Qaaf.
Other part of your message has already been answer... please have alook at my previous post.
Khan
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Salaaman WayFinder,
May Allah help you with ease in every tough situation pr and for all of us.
As per my understanding, who we know that 531-18 is addressing to the Prophet? I think Allah is talking about someone else here, inshaAllah He will clarify it soon. As He said "... Fasbir hatta yahkum Allah..." "...Wait until Allah decides.." These aayaats does not use the word "AlRasool" or "AlNabi". Allah knows how to address AlRasool or AlNabi... as you can see as to quote the few, I mentioned below
Direct address to the Messenger - 567
Direct address to the Prophet - 864, 65, 70, 331, 3345, 3350 . 3359, 651, 661, 9.
Direct address to wifes of the Prophet - 3329 3332
Direct address to the Believers - 3341, 3349, 3353 . 3369, 70, 491, 492, 496, 4911, 4912.
Direct address to the People - 4913.
There are lot more... I just wrote what I found by turning the pages... Alhamdulillah.
And 171-2 it is not mentioned about Jeruselam nor AlNabi. It says "Bi-'Abdihi", that could be any.
InshaAllah, it may be of some help.
Take care..
KhanPeace Brother
Thanks for the input and insights on this... However, I have some more info and I wish it will contribute in a better understanding of Allah's words....
The Messenger has been address directly most of the times but there are times when he is being addressed as a THIRD PERSON.... Take this verse as example...
223
And if you doubt any part of what We have, bestowed from on high, step by step, upon Our servant , then produce a surah of similar merit, and call upon any other than God to bear witness for you -if what you say is true!
In this verse, the Messenger is not addressed directly... However, there is no doubt that ABDINAA (Our Servant) is referring to Muhammad because Allah is challenging the disbelievers to bring a Surah similar to the Quran... Muhammad is the only one who received the Quran...
So in the 53 1-18 ABDIHI is definitely referring to Muhammad also because meeting with Jibreel, wahy, revelation is mentioned...
Hope I have been able to clear up things a bit...
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Salaaman WayFinder,
This is to a quick correction.
If you are refering to the first revelation as said, it is "Iqra" not "Oukhraa". With Qaaf.
Other part of your message has already been answer... please have alook at my previous post.
Khan
Peace bro
No, I am not mistaken and have not mistyped... I did not mean about first revelation IQRA...
I am talking about the word OUKHRAA from 5313 which according to me has been mistranslated as SECOND instead on ANOTHER TIME/ONE MORE TIME by many translators...
5313 And, indeed, he saw him a second time
Translation of Yusuf Ali.
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Salaaman WayFinder,
Peace Brother
Thanks for the input and insights on this... However, I have some more info and I wish it will contribute in a better understanding of Allah's words....
The Messenger has been address directly most of the times but there are times when he is being addressed as a THIRD PERSON.... Take this verse as example...
In this verse, the Messenger is not addressed directly... However, there is no doubt that ABDINAA (Our Servant) is referring to Muhammad because Allah is challenging the disbelievers to bring a Surah similar to the Quran... Muhammad is the only one who received the Quran...
So in the 53 1-18 ABDIHI is definitely referring to Muhammad also because meeting with Jibreel, wahy, revelation is mentioned...
Hope I have been able to clear up things a bit...
Nope! Why can't you be an Abdihi or Abdina? Or me or anyone else?
Please let me know how would you translate 191?
Regarding Abdana in 223, I don't agree that it is refering to the Messenger. And there is not mention of disbelievers in it BTW. Why not you? or me? Think about it and don't try to bound Allah. He know how to explain things brother.
And sorry for misunderstanding of 5313.. Yes I agree with you on "Oukhraa".
Take care..
Khan -
Salaaman WayFinder,
Nope! Why can't you be an Abdihi or Abdina? Or me or anyone else?
Please let me know how would you translate 191?
Regarding Abdana in 223, I don't agree that it is refering to the Messenger. And there is not mention of disbelievers in it BTW. Why not you? or me? Think about it and don't try to bound Allah. He know how to explain things brother.
And sorry for misunderstanding of 5313.. Yes I agree with you on "Oukhraa".
Take care..
KhanSalaam brother
Now wonder or doubt that we can be Abdihi - His servant.... However, the verses in question when viewed in context give clues that it not WE the object/subject there...
223
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.From the above mentioned verse, we know that ABDINAA is not referring to us or any other one except Muhammad because
- Allah says he has revealed on him... we did not get revelation, but clear transmission from the messenger
- The verse is talking about the Quran because the word Sura is mentioned... Surah are found in the Quran and the Quran is the revelation.
- This verse is intended for those who have disbelief and doubts in the Quran because 1-2 verses later, a violent warning is issued against them.
As for 193
AN ACCOUNT of the grace which thy Sustainer bestowed upon His servant Zachariah
To avoid confusion here, the ABDAHOU-His servant has already been identified as Zachariah... So no problem on this verse... For 223 ABDINAA has been identified by clues and context...
Hope I have answered your question to the best of my ability.
Allah knows best...
Peace
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Salaaman Brother,
Salaam brother
Now wonder or doubt that we can be Abdihi - His servant.... However, the verses in question when viewed in context give clues that it not WE the object/subject there...
From the above mentioned verse, we know that ABDINAA is not referring to us or any other one except Muhammad because
- Allah says he has revealed on him... we did not get revelation, but clear transmission from the messenger
- The verse is talking about the Quran because the word Sura is mentioned... Surah are found in the Quran and the Quran is the revelation.
- This verse is intended for those who have disbelief and doubts in the Quran because 1-2 verses later, a violent warning is issued against them.
OK if so, please let me know what you understand in 20114? Whom is it refereing to?
As for 193
To avoid confusion here, the ABDAHOU-His servant has already been identified as Zachariah... So no problem on this verse... For 223 ABDINAA has been identified by clues and context...Hope I have answered your question to the best of my ability.
Allah knows best...
PeaceYes true.. about 193, you have given your own answer brother. As I said, Allah specifically clarifies when address someone particularly. If it is not specific, then it is not address to him/them only.
May Allah guide us all towards the path that He has chosen for us.
Khan
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Salaam brother,
Interesting discussion...Salaaman Brother,
OK if so, please let me know what you understand in 20114? Whom is it refereing to?
I do not see the relevancy of the 20114 with the topic here, however here is how I understand it...
20114 then, do not approach the Qur'an in haste, ere it has been revealed unto thee in full, but [always) say "O my Sustainer, cause me to grow in knowledge!
Here God is addressing the Prophet and advising him not to be in a hurry with the Quran and wait for the revelation to complete... The Prophet might have willed to get the whole Quran faster...
From this verse we benefit from the history of revelation as well as guidelines on how to ask Allah in the best way for more knowledge....
I had this thread which I opened regarding this particular verse, please read it... http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597287.msg181538#msg181538
Yes true.. about 193, you have given your own answer brother. As I said, Allah specifically clarifies when address someone particularly. If it is not specific, then it is not address to him/them only.
May Allah guide us all towards the path that He has chosen for us.
Khan
Brother... might be you misunderstood my posts..... But direct identification of the subject/object of the verses are not always given and we will normally find it out either
- Through context
- Through the usage in the Quran
BUT... not through personal guessing....
Hence, let me go back to the original topic of this thread regarding Surah 58, verses 1-18
We can DEDUCE that ABDIHI is referring to the prophet Muhammad not through personal guessing, but through the context and self reference...
- We have Jibreel bringing revelation
- We have Allah giving inspiration
- We have a new meeting between the Messenger and Jibreel
So definitely, ABDIHI cannot mean us here.... Or you have another view on this, please post ...
Always good to learn from one another...
Regards
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Assalaam Alaikum
Excuse me, If I may just weigh in here regarding this point......
Sura 2.23 is referring to 'Us'.....
O you people! / Ya ayyuha alnnasu ......
Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when you know (the truth).
And if you are in doubt as to what We reveal to Our servant, then come with a [ONE} Surah/Chapter like it; and call your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.
Wa in kuntum fee raybin mimma nazzalna AAala AAabdina fatoo bisooratin min mithlihi waodAAoo shuhadaakum min dooni Allahi in kuntum sadiqeena
nazzal-na is 1st person, Verb Form II = force, emphasis, repetition meaning we reveal
AAabdi-na = My Servant, again 1st person, Plural, the pronoun 'Na' is dual, male & female, thus the 'servant' can be male or female
I agree with what the Brother stated lets not try to 'bound' Allah
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Assalaam Alaikum
Excuse me, If I may just weigh in here regarding this point......
Sura 2.23 is referring to 'Us'.....
O you people! / Ya ayyuha alnnasu ......
Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when you know (the truth).
And if you are in doubt as to what We reveal to Our servant, then come with a [ONE} Surah/Chapter like it; and call your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.
Wa in kuntum fee raybin mimma nazzalna AAala AAabdina fatoo bisooratin min mithlihi waodAAoo shuhadaakum min dooni Allahi in kuntum sadiqeena
nazzal-na is 1st person, Verb Form II = force, emphasis, repetition meaning we reveal
AAabdi-na = My Servant, again 1st person, Plural, the pronoun 'Na' is dual, male & female, thus the 'servant' can be male or female
I agree with what the Brother stated lets not try to 'bound' Allah
Peace MTR,
What make you think that ABDINAA is making reference to us and not the messenger?? I also provided a counter argument regarding this issue in my earlier post above, please have a look... It is clear the ABDINAA is for the MESSENGER since he was the one who got revelations (ANZALNAA ALAA ABDINAA) and he was the one who got the Quran which has Surahs (FA'Too BI SOORATIM MIM MISLIH) ...
Also, how do you know that the pronoun NAA is DUAL here and not PLURAL? There do not seem to be any indication for this...
Regards
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Peace MTR,
What make you think that ABDINAA is making reference to us and not the messenger?? I also provided a counter argument regarding this issue in my earlier post above, please have a look... It is clear the ABDINAA is for the MESSENGER since he was the one who got revelations (ANZALNAA ALAA ABDINAA) and he was the one who got the Quran which has Surahs (FA'Too BI SOORATIM MIM MISLIH) ...
Also, how do you know that the pronoun NAA is DUAL here and not PLURAL? There do not seem to be any indication for this...
Regards
I believe I understood from you that you 'teach' arabic. Am I correct?
Secondly, The Believers / Mumin'nuun receive revelation, Muhammed,as was NOT the only and last human being to receive 'revelation'.
So hold you fast to the Revelation sent down to you / oohiya ilayka; verily you art on a Straight Way.
Follow what you art taught by inspiration from thy Lord / oohiya ilayka min rabbika. there is no god but He. and turn aside from those who join gods with Allah.
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I believe I understood from you that you 'teach' arabic. Am I correct?
Secondly, The Believers / Mumin'nuun receive revelation, Muhammed,as was NOT the only and last human being to receive 'revelation'.
So hold you fast to the Revelation sent down to you / oohiya ilayka; verily you art on a Straight Way.
Follow what you art taught by inspiration from thy Lord / oohiya ilayka min rabbika. there is no god but He. and turn aside from those who join gods with Allah.
Peace MTR
Yes I do teach arabic to kids... since you found it important to quote it here... let me ask you... do you think that because I know arabic I am immune to errors? Was this an attempt to discredit me? Anyways, Allah knows best....
HOWEVER, you are again wrong here....
We did not RECEIVE revelations.... By RECEIVE here i mean, it did not ANZALA on by Jibreel.... We got the REVELATIONS through BALAA3OUL MOUBEEN... CLEAR TRANSMISSION from the messenger.... Since you know better, you should try to study the difference between these words.... ANZALA, OOHIYA and BALLA3A....
Now if we all start to say we RECEIVE revelations in YOUR SENSE of meaning... then we will start having false prophets once more... We already have them, we will just be having hell more of them.... laugh
YOU MISSED A POINT IN YOUR LAST REPLY....
About the NAA and what makes it DUAL.... Please clarify....
Regards
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Peace MTR
Yes I do teach arabic to kids... since you found it important to quote it here... let me ask you... do you think that because I know arabic I am immune to errors? Was this an attempt to discredit me? Anyways, Allah knows best....
HOWEVER, you are again wrong here....
We did not RECEIVE revelations.... By RECEIVE here i mean, it did not ANZALA on by Jibreel.... We got the REVELATIONS through BALAA3OUL MOUBEEN... CLEAR TRANSMISSION from the messenger.... Since you know better, you should try to study the difference between these words.... ANZALA, OOHIYA and BALLA3A....
Now if we all start to say we RECEIVE revelations in YOUR SENSE of meaning... then we will start having false prophets once more... We already have them, we will just be having hell more of them.... laugh
YOU MISSED A POINT IN YOUR LAST REPLY....
About the NAA and what makes it DUAL.... Please clarify....
Regards
Assalaam Alaikum
There is a serious 'ego' problem on this forum. I have noticed that If something is conveyed to you that you dont know, you immediately tell the person they are 'wrong, your a liar' and various other slanderous efforts.
Very strange behavior for a forum that claims they are 'progressive' and support open dialogue regarding the guidance of Allah.
Say. Whoever is an enemy to GABRIEL-FOR HE BRINGS DOWN THE (REVELATION) TO THY HEART BY ALLAH'S WILL, a confirmation that is between your two hands, and guidance and glad tidings / good news for those who believe,-
Ponder that ayah please
the word oohiya is a passive participle from the root word Waha meaning reveal, inspire, etc., from which the Noun, Wahy is derived 'Revelation'
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Peace MTR
I think it was me who directed you to ponder on WAHAA(OOHIYA).... So, Jibreel brings revelations to my heart or your heart?
Second time, what about the DUAL 'NAA' you said earlier?
Also, since you are saying the ego story.... Can you point me where I discredited you?
Regards
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Peace MTR
I think it was me who directed you to ponder on WAHAA(OOHIYA).... So, Jibreel brings revelations to my heart or your heart?
Second time, what about the DUAL 'NAA' you said earlier?
Also, since you are saying the ego story.... Can you point me where I discredited you?
Regards
Excuse me, but If you teach arabic, you should know the basics, 1st, 2nd and 3rd person pronouns. Why are you asking me questions that ONE the answer is in the ayah, TWO they are basic arabic grammar references?
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Excuse me, but If you teach arabic, you should know the basics, 1st, 2nd and 3rd person pronouns. Why are you asking me questions that ONE the answer is in the ayah, TWO they are basic arabic grammar references?
Peace
I did say I teach arabic but I do not remember that I claim to be an arabic expert... I teach in primary schools... from 6yr old to 12yr old...
NAA can be used for dual and plural.... I am asking why you said that the NAA is for DUAL... this is my question...
Regards