What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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This is true as far as this participle is singular. What if it is a plural describing a group of both genders? Would it be feminine or masculine? How about "mu'minuun " and "kaafiruun " which are both participles? Does the qur'aan speak of men only when mentioning them?
"He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof. and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss). Therein will they have abundance withoutmeasure.
Man AAamila sayyiatan fala yujza illa mithlaha waman AAamila salihan min thakarin / those who remember;male aw ontha / females wa huwa muminun faolaika yadkhuloona aljannata yurzaqoona feeha bighayri hisabin
hum (them) kafiruun / , seems to be consistent throughout the Quran.
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hum (them) kafiruun / , seems to be consistent throughout the Quran.
Is this your response? Of course it is consistant throughout the quraan!! Who are "hum they"? And please no cut and paste, no grammar or beating behind the bush. Simple answer will do, thank you.
And please address my other quetion too (above conditions apply, too).
(I simply deleted the first part of the post because it's completely off point and does not address either question) -
Salaam MTR
Verse 2239
Questions
-Who is being addressed here?
-How do you translate this verse?Assalaam Alaikum Samia
Before we begin the 'quiz show', If I may suggest.
Samia, we are attempting to 'share' our perceptions that Allah is indicating to us and in doing so it develops a sharing of knowledge and creates a learning dialogue.
I have seen in numerous threads, the dialogue digressing into egotistical rants and minutia. Personally, I avoid those confrontations.
I have certainly gained in understanding when mutual respect and knowledge sharing is maintained.
Questions
-Who is being addressed here? You Samia, You khiftum farijalan /
-How do you translate this verse? Personally, I dont normally 'translate' ayahs in a discussion regarding a particular ayah. Its really not that important to me, the translation. The Quran will define itself. -
hum / them
tum / you
kum / you
ALL Plural, EVERYONE male and female -
Is this your response? Of course it is consistant throughout the quraan!! Who are "hum they"? And please no cut and paste, no grammar or beating behind the bush. Simple answer will do, thank you.
And please address my other quetion too (above conditions apply, too).
(I simply deleted the first part of the post because it's completely off point and does not address either question)Assalaam Alaikum Samia
I believe unfortunately the dialogue is beginning to digress, thus I will reserve the right to respond. But before I take that position I wanted to comment briefly about a previous request.
Samia, You asked a question....
"How about "mu'minuun " and "kaafiruun " which are both participles? Does the qur'aan speak of men only when mentioning them?"
I responded with this ayah from the Quran....
"He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof. and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss). Therein will they have abundance withoutmeasure.
Man AAamila sayyiatan fala yujza illa mithlaha waman AAamila salihan min thakarin / those who remember;male aw ontha / females wa huwa muminun faolaika yadkhuloona aljannata yurzaqoona feeha bighayri hisabin
Samia, the ayah addresses your inquiry, specifically and directly. Allah is stating that Male and Female, through their active behavior as Mu'minuun will be blessed with paradise.
Not that it really means anything, but Im not sure how you determine that my response was "off point and does not address either question"
Again, I will reserve the right to respond to any post and will be somewhat discriminative regarding who and when I respond.
Salaam Alaikum
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Brother do not get upset. Sister Samia has valid questions. One who is not Illah has not used any word in revelation that was not in lexical concepts of people of that time. However, people like us afterwards for their vested intrests have changed the meanings or applied diffrerently. Example is here in 41 and many more . Here Rijalun is not used as litteral "men" but as common gender like modren english "you guys", Kasirun is an adjective meaning "often" and Nissaun is not for women but being fortgetfulness. Hence, this part should be understood as "Once you guys are born and attained puberty/manhood you forget this". Forget what, that is in pervious discussion of creation. Furthermore, if Rijalun was used here for literal men, than instead of Nissa should have been used. However, by giving wrong meaning to Nissa here, adtvantage is taken in 43. To justify 4 mirrages. Please do not feel any thing is directed at you personally. We are all learning. I am just a very begining student. I will also admit that by interacting with you I have learned a lot in this short time. For this my prayers are for you. Peace and love.
Badar
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Assalaam Alaikum Samia
Before we begin the 'quiz show', If I may suggest.
Samia, we are attempting to 'share' our perceptions that Allah is indicating to us and in doing so it develops a sharing of knowledge and creates a learning dialogue.
I have seen in numerous threads, the dialogue digressing into egotistical rants and minutia. Personally, I avoid those confrontations.
I have certainly gained in understanding when mutual respect and knowledge sharing is maintained.
Questions
-Who is being addressed here? You Samia, You khiftum farijalan /
-How do you translate this verse? Personally, I dont normally 'translate' ayahs in a discussion regarding a particular ayah. Its really not that important to me, the translation. The Quran will define itself.Thank you MTR, and I am sorry if I sounded aggressive. That was not my intention.
This bolded line was quite enough for me. I suppose you know I am female hail so when I read this verse I believe it is addressing me, among the "rijaal". Therefore, rijaalan does not mean men, and it includes women. -
Salaam MTR
Verse 2239
Questions
-Who is being addressed here?
-How do you translate this verse?Fain khif-tum (object) farijalan(Haal Accusative, Verbal Noun or Active Participle?)
fain subjunctive reference to verb khif-tum
Khif-tum If you are fearful, apprehensive, afraid
farijalan (Verbal Noun or Active Participle(?), Haal Accusative, Nasb Case) to dispel, drive away worries, to give a sense of ease, to relieve, to relax, to comfort; ?A Dictionary of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran? by Tantawi Sura 2239; Al Mawrid
"If you have fear or apprehension, then just relax, dont worry, take it easy, be "
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412 In what your wives (Azwajukum) leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. ....
So, it mean that zoaj/azwaj are only wife/wives. The term does not convey spouse/spouses.
siki
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412 In what your wives (Azwajukum) leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. ....
So, it mean that zoaj/azwaj are only wife/wives. The term does not convey spouse/spouses.
siki
Azwaju-kum
Azwaj means mates
kum is a plural masculine pronoun, which refers to BOTH male and femaleIf it were a feminine 'plural' pronoun such as 'hunna, kunna, etc.' it would refer to females ONLY. Masculine 'plural' pronouns refer to BOTH male and female.
Wealthy Females leave legacies, debts and inheritance, Sura 4.12 applies to them also.
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Azwaju-kum
Azwaj means mates
kum is a plural masculine pronoun, which refers to BOTH male and femaleIf it were a feminine 'plural' pronoun such as 'hunna, kunna, etc.' it would refer to females ONLY. Masculine 'plural' pronouns refer to BOTH male and female.
Wealthy Females leave legacies, debts and inheritance, Sura 4.12 applies to them also.
No, grammar/reading out of context leads to major contradictions on very clear verses.
E.g. woman leaves behind husband and no children, which to use?
412 And for you 1/2 what your spouses/wives left, if was not for them a child....
412...and for them the 1/4 from what you left, if was not for you a child...
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No, grammar/reading out of context leads to major contradictions on very clear verses.
E.g. woman leaves behind husband and no children, which to use?
412 And for you 1/2 what your spouses/wives left, if was not for them a child....
412...and for them the 1/4 from what you left, if was not for you a child...
Please take the time and energy to research the 'context' through the language of the Quran. The Quran will confirm the context.
Then lets talk.
When your ready, just post your understanding.
Again as you know by now, I dont argue english translations or interpretations.
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Still waiting MTR for your response on my pervious post. in word Nissa meaning women which does not even exsist according to Lexion of classic Arabic has Medda on Alif. This is the same rule for make feminine of a given word. However, 41 has no Medda. Thanks.
Badar
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Still waiting MTR for your response on my pervious post. in word Nissa meaning women which does not even exsist according to Lexion of classic Arabic has Medda on Alif. This is the same rule for make feminine of a given word. However, 41 has no Medda. Thanks.
Badar
Badar, we went through this already! is a FEMININE MARKER!!, period
Sura 4.1 from that soul countless men and women / and baththa minhuma rijalan katheeran wa nisa'a /
min-huma is a dual, masculine and feminine pronoun reference that governs and defines rijalan / and nisaan / as Men and Women, respectively.
nisa?a / is feminine singular, indicated by the feminine marker extended alif & hamza /
Again, a Lexical reference is word 'usage' NOT grammatical morphology (structure, meanings, verbal forms, tense, gender, number, etc.)
We are discussing the Quran NOT linguistic use of words but Quranic understanding and relevance of a Quranic term NOT linguistic terms based upon dialects and usage.
Badar I have given you the references 4 times!!! Posted them in the thread, do I have to do it a 5th time?
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Last point Rajul / Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, it has no gender! Please clearify this statement. Are you implying here that , is a participle and is seperate, so what is it?
We are discussing the Quran NOT linguistic use of words but Quranic understanding and relevance of a Quranic term NOT linguistic terms based upon dialects and usage.. Please clearify this what do you mean. Are you implying that one does not need to understand the language i.e., lexical concepts and grammar to understand Quran? Thanks.
You have still not expounded the query of Medda on Alif in Nissa used meaning woman verse Nissa used in 41 without Medda. Thanks.
BADAR
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Last point Rajul / Rijal is an ACTIVE PARTICIPLE, it has no gender! Please clearify this statement. Are you implying here that , is a participle and is seperate, so what is it?
We are discussing the Quran NOT linguistic use of words but Quranic understanding and relevance of a Quranic term NOT linguistic terms based upon dialects and usage.. Please clearify this what do you mean. Are you implying that one does not need to understand the language i.e., lexical concepts and grammar to understand Quran? Thanks.
You have still not expounded the query of Medda on Alif in Nissa used meaning woman verse Nissa used in 41 without Medda. Thanks.
BADAR
Assalaam Alaikum Badar
Im sorry, but you are all over the place.
Rajul / Rijal is NOT in Sura 4.1 its
One is an active participle the other a 'broken plural' noun, in essence one a verb the other a noun
Two different words, same root, different words, one a verb other a noun
Badar, I dont have a clue as to what your referring to, there is no alif madda with
Alif madda, , is used when a sustained 'a' sound occurs at the BEGINNING of a word
Sura 4.1 Nisa'a / has an extended alif / at the END of the word NOT beginning.
Again we discussing the Quran NOT Lexical linguistic usage.
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Please take the time and energy to research the 'context' through the language of the Quran. The Quran will confirm the context.
Then lets talk.
When your ready, just post your understanding.
Again as you know by now, I dont argue english translations or interpretations.
Yes I know, you are too proud to admit a mistake. Nothing to argue, you posted a clear contradiction; azwajukum in context of 412 cannot be spouses both males and females; e.g.
A woman dies leaving a husband, no children ? what do we give him, ? or ??
an-Nisa' (Women) 412
Walakum nisfu ma taraka azwajukum in lam yakun lahunna waladun fa-in kana lahunna waladun falakumu alrrubuAAu mimma tarakna min baAAdi wasiyyatin yooseena biha aw daynin walahunna alrrubuAAu mimma taraktum in lam yakun lakum waladun fa-in kana lakum waladun falahunna alththumunu mimma taraktum min baAAdi wasiyyatin toosoona biha aw daynin wa-in kana rajulun yoorathu kalalatan awi imraatun walahu akhun aw okhtun falikulli wahidin minhuma alssudusu fa-in kanoo akthara min thalika fahum shurakao fee alththuluthi min baAAdi wasiyyatin yoosa biha aw daynin ghayra mudarrin wasiyyatan mina Allahi waAllahu AAaleemun haleemunAs stated earlier, the best meaning is derived within context of verses and triangulated/cross referenced within the entire Quran which cannot contradict itself ? another example where spouses contradicts...
3722-23 Gather those who were unjust/oppressive and their spouses (waazwajahum), and what they were worshipping from other than God, so guide them to the hell's way.
A better definition of azwajahum above is ?their cohorts/partners? in oppression not ?spouses? which implies quilt by marriage and of course contradicts rest of Quran....
6611 And God gave an example to those who believe, Pharaoh's woman (wife) when she said "My Lord build for me at You a home in the Paradise and save/rescue me from Pharaoh and his deed, and save/rescue me from the nation the unjust/oppressive."
Below is my understanding of the inheritance verses which I did take the time and energy to research in ?context? and anyone is welcome to find one contradiction case...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16179.msg177780#msg177780
482 So do they not consider The Qur?an, and if (it) were from at other than God, they would have found in it many contradictions.
This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
In the blessed and ease treed paradises
On sofas facing each other
Being circled around on them with a cup to drink wine from goodness
White delight to the drinking
Intoxication not in it, nor they be exhausted from it
And at them the eye's confining big beautiful eyes...Peace
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azwajakum / azwajahum again means mates, its plural. Kum / Hum are masculine plural pronouns, when attached to a noun or verb they refer to BOTH males and Females.
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This will unfortunately be my last post on free-minds for a while. It?s been wonderful knowing everyone these past two years and would have liked to meet in person/share a smile ? perhaps one day...
Salam,
Sorry to here that Nun de plume. You will be missed.
Salam,
Arnab